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Luongo XI - Luoraker (Mod warning #432)

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:53 PM
  #651
n00bxQb
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How are Brad Richards, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Rick Nash, etc. working out for the Leafs?

I mean, with all the media reports about them going to Toronto over the last couple of years, they surely ended up there, right? The media couldn't possibly just make stuff up and pass it off as news, could they?

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06-18-2012, 01:54 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
then they keep him and trade schneider
the canucks are close to a cup, and golatending is the least of their issues
this trade is their one real chance to get the assets to put them over the top
they will not throw him away to the leafs for scraps due to a bad market, Gillis has more respect for him and belief that he can deliver the cup
THAT would be a bad idea. Leafs or not, trading Schneider to keep Luongo should get Gillis fired. Keep them both or trade Lou, trading Schneider shouldn't be an option

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06-18-2012, 01:54 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
then they keep him and trade schneider
the canucks are close to a cup, and golatending is the least of their issues
this trade is their one real chance to get the assets to put them over the top
they will not throw him away to the leafs for scraps due to a bad market, Gillis has more respect for him and belief that he can deliver the cup
I can't see Gillis seeing this as an opportunity to put him over the top but rather an opportunity to add to the lacking prospect closet.

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06-18-2012, 01:56 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Tuts View Post
As a leafs fan I would be extremely upset with a package like that for luongo.

Just when we start making progress with ashton, colbourne, lombardi etc we get thrown overboard by way off proposals. Its happening from both sides not just you
It only took a million threads but the number of "Gardiner/5th" and "Komisarek + 4th" proposals are pretty rare now.

I still think we end up with something like
Schenn/Kulemin
Nazem Kadri
Carter Ashton/Frattin/Colborne

Not for Luongo straight up, but a package based around Luongo (add things like 2nd/prospects on Vancouvers side).

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06-18-2012, 01:56 PM
  #655
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That's hilarious that you just quoted Ed Willis of all people to try to prove your point.... he's one of the most uninformed and worst hockey journalists around the NHL.

If he suggests a way that something could happen, you can guarantee that it won't.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis held onto both Schneider and Luongo and traded one of them when another team realizes they have goaltending issues next year. Since Gillis has been here, everyone said "Oh, he'll trade Schneider at the Draft.... He'll trade Schneider at the Deadline... etc" and he didn't. He held onto him. Luongo is no different. He doesn't HAVE to trade him right now. If the package that the Leafs are offering are centered some of the pieces that have been suggested in this thread.... then Gillis can wait. And don't tell me he HAS to move one or the other... he doesn't.

The Canucks are a good enough team that even with 9m locked up in Goalie contracts going into next season, they'd still easily make the playoffs. And then at some point when another team loses a goalie due to injury, or because they're just not living up to expectations, they can talk to the Canucks and they can work out a deal where the Canucks will actually get a piece or two they could use.... and not the Schenns or Komisareks of the world.

I love how some people think that trading with the Leafs is Gillis ONLY option! Gillis has proven to be a lot more sly than anyone on these forums when it comes to working deals and around the cap.
The issue isn't that there aren't enough teams who want to improve their goaltending. The issue is that there aren't that many teams that have poor goaltending AND can afford to take on Luongo's contract AND that Luongo would be willing to waive his NTC for.

Which team, do you figure, is waiting to see if their current goaltender is good enough before sending an offer for Luongo?

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06-18-2012, 01:56 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
So you think a completely different deal would be better? Yeh, I agree too. The one he proposed is ridiculous.
I think the value he proposed is off but it is alot closer then what many of my fellow Leaf fans are offering.

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06-18-2012, 01:58 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
THAT would be a bad idea. Leafs or not, trading Schneider to keep Luongo should get Gillis fired. Keep them both or trade Lou, trading Schneider shouldn't be an option
What if the return on Luongo is discounted quite a bit and there is a premium on Schneider?

Isnt it Gillis responsibility to ice the best team possible?

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06-18-2012, 01:58 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
How are Brad Richards, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Rick Nash, etc. working out for the Leafs?

I mean, with all the media reports about them going to Toronto over the last couple of years, they surely ended up there, right? The media couldn't possibly just make stuff up and pass it off as news, could they?
I know the media likes to feed the beast known as Leafs Nation but in this case, with the "LIST" and the "CONTRACT" plus the ability and need the Leafs look like the right fit and only real option if Gillis wants a deal sometime before Jan 1st 2013.

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06-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
How are Brad Richards, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Rick Nash, etc. working out for the Leafs?

I mean, with all the media reports about them going to Toronto over the last couple of years, they surely ended up there, right? The media couldn't possibly just make stuff up and pass it off as news, could they?
Reaching much?

Please show me ONE link from a reliable source that any of those players were likely to go to Toronto, never mind going there definitively.

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06-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
THAT would be a bad idea. Leafs or not, trading Schneider to keep Luongo should get Gillis fired. Keep them both or trade Lou, trading Schneider shouldn't be an option
cant go round & round again...
so many leaf posters deriding the guy, yet simultaneously scheming to get him on their team ...just too wearing
He is an elite goalie. If the market is not there, trade the other guy. If no market for Luongo and I can get a Hedman or Johansen calibre player for Schneider, I do it all day.

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06-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I think the value he proposed is off but it is alot closer then what many of my fellow Leaf fans are offering.
The way I broke it down was

Schenn + Kadri = Lu + 2nd
Ashton = Schroeder
Connolly = Nothing basically

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06-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
How are Brad Richards, Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Rick Nash, etc. working out for the Leafs?

I mean, with all the media reports about them going to Toronto over the last couple of years, they surely ended up there, right? The media couldn't possibly just make stuff up and pass it off as news, could they?
Can we see one of them?

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06-18-2012, 02:02 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
It only took a million threads but the number of "Gardiner/5th" and "Komisarek + 4th" proposals are pretty rare now.

I still think we end up with something like
Schenn/Kulemin
Nazem Kadri
Carter Ashton/Frattin/Colborne

Not for Luongo straight up, but a package based around Luongo (add things like 2nd/prospects on Vancouvers side).
yeah, would do that

but not the endless Komi/3rd type proposals

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06-18-2012, 02:04 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
I know the media likes to feed the beast known as Leafs Nation but in this case, with the "LIST" and the "CONTRACT" plus the ability and need the Leafs look like the right fit and only real option if Gillis wants a deal sometime before Jan 1st 2013.
Yep and Luongo looks like the only option for Burke who will not go into next season with a duo of Scrivens/Reimer. Both sides need the deal to happen, IMO. I think Leaf fans who think that the status quo will work or that there is anther viable option out there are fooling themselves. That's why I see the bargaining power as being pretty equal here.

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06-18-2012, 02:07 PM
  #665
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Out of Touch

I think there are alot of people who are not living in a real world. If you think that under the circumstances Vancouver is getting Toronto's 5th ouverall and all of the players that are being mentioned then you are all delusional.

Toronto will not give up the farm for Luongo nor do they have to. I for one would be happy to go with Reimer and Skrivens vice giving up what p[eople are saying here. Tehre is no market for Luongo so give up the farm.

Vancouver gets a 3rd, a mid level prospect and maybe one of Toronto's defensmen. If Vancouver doesn't like it then hang on to Loungo and that rediculous contract.

Understand, I like Lou, but he isn't worth what people are saying here. A 1st, 2nd, gunnerson, Connelly, dreaming people. let's keep it real and remember, there is no, I repeat, no market for Lou.

WOW.

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06-18-2012, 02:11 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by kipper0002 View Post
I think there are alot of people who are not living in a real world. If you think that under the circumstances Vancouver is getting Toronto's 5th ouverall and all of the players that are being mentioned then you are all delusional.

Toronto will not give up the farm for Luongo nor do they have to. I for one would be happy to go with Reimer and Skrivens vice giving up what p[eople are saying here. Tehre is no market for Luongo so give up the farm.

Vancouver gets a 3rd, a mid level prospect and maybe one of Toronto's defensmen. If Vancouver doesn't like it then hang on to Loungo and that rediculous contract.

Understand, I like Lou, but he isn't worth what people are saying here. A 1st, 2nd, gunnerson, Connelly, dreaming people. let's keep it real and remember, there is no, I repeat, no market for Lou.

WOW.
Again, you may very well be happy with Reimer and Scrivens but a competent GM will not.
Burke needs to get a starting goalie. And Gillis needs to trade a starting goalie. Neither side is holding all of the chips here and Leaf fans proposing a 3rd etc are going to be disappointed.

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06-18-2012, 02:15 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by kipper0002 View Post
I think there are alot of people who are not living in a real world. If you think that under the circumstances Vancouver is getting Toronto's 5th ouverall and all of the players that are being mentioned then you are all delusional.

Toronto will not give up the farm for Luongo nor do they have to. I for one would be happy to go with Reimer and Skrivens vice giving up what p[eople are saying here. Tehre is no market for Luongo so give up the farm.

Vancouver gets a 3rd, a mid level prospect and maybe one of Toronto's defensmen. If Vancouver doesn't like it then hang on to Loungo and that rediculous contract.

Understand, I like Lou, but he isn't worth what people are saying here. A 1st, 2nd, gunnerson, Connelly, dreaming people. let's keep it real and remember, there is no, I repeat, no market for Lou.

WOW.


People, you don't have to worry about Luongo's contract. That's what management does. All you guys should honestly care about is cap hit, which is reasonable, and his playing level, which has been proven to be decent.

If he stinks there are options to deal with the contract, which the team lawyers will be more than capable of dealing with.

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06-18-2012, 02:15 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
And as many have said before, if that's Burke's position Luongo won't be going to Toronto. That's fine with me. Where this discussion gets annoying is this:

Leaf fans don't want to give anything up for Luongo, yet some still want him on their team. As a result, x number of threads are created in an attempt to diminish his value.
The tooth fairy doesn't exist people. Sorry.
Nuck fans seem to think Leaf fans are dying for Luongo. Truth is, the Leaf board would be split if the Leafs simply signed Loungo to that contract as a UFA this summer without giving up anything. To give up a major young building block (5th or Gardiner) would be brutal from our standpoint. An aging star that could help the Nucks now maybe...but it makes zero sense to give up youth. I simply don't trust Lu in net in big games.

Worst case, the Leafs don't fix their goal tending problems this summer and everyone laughs yet again. But getting a shot at MacInnon next year might be a blessing in disguise. Keep the re-build going.

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06-18-2012, 02:15 PM
  #669
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I love how the alternative to dealing loungo is to trade schneider to Columbus for a bunch of great assets...

why on earth would howson trade for an RFA that would likely not want to play there? he could hold out or force his hand much worse than carter did.

howson may seem dumb to some of you, but he will not trade for a player who is not under contract or at least will have a deal in place long term before the trade. I do not see schneider wanting to commit long term in CLB especially if you expect Nash or their top prospects to be going the other way, what incentive is there to stay there for CS? the chance to join new team mate Jack Johnson annually on team USA?

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06-18-2012, 02:17 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by kipper0002 View Post
I think there are alot of people who are not living in a real world. If you think that under the circumstances Vancouver is getting Toronto's 5th ouverall and all of the players that are being mentioned then you are all delusional.

Toronto will not give up the farm for Luongo nor do they have to. I for one would be happy to go with Reimer and Skrivens vice giving up what p[eople are saying here. Tehre is no market for Luongo so give up the farm.

Vancouver gets a 3rd, a mid level prospect and maybe one of Toronto's defensmen. If Vancouver doesn't like it then hang on to Loungo and that rediculous contract.

Understand, I like Lou, but he isn't worth what people are saying here. A 1st, 2nd, gunnerson, Connelly, dreaming people. let's keep it real and remember, there is no, I repeat, no market for Lou.

WOW.
I agree but to say there is no market is a bit off cuz the Leafs are interested so there is a market but mostly controlled by the Leafs. Either Van takes the offer or they don't and the Leafs can just get a so so UFA goalie to mentor Scrivens, He looks to be the next Smith. On one side of the coin Lou would be awesome but if it affects to development and future of Scrivens with the Leafs then no way jose. I'd rather be a lottery team for a cpl more years and have Scrivens developing into a top 5 goalie then have him bail in a cpl years cuz he can't get playing time behind Lou. Actually wait Lou can be the regular season goalie and Scrivens can be the playoff goalie LOL.

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06-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by kipper0002 View Post
I think there are alot of people who are not living in a real world. If you think that under the circumstances Vancouver is getting Toronto's 5th ouverall and all of the players that are being mentioned then you are all delusional.

Toronto will not give up the farm for Luongo nor do they have to. I for one would be happy to go with Reimer and Skrivens vice giving up what p[eople are saying here. Tehre is no market for Luongo so give up the farm.

Vancouver gets a 3rd, a mid level prospect and maybe one of Toronto's defensmen. If Vancouver doesn't like it then hang on to Loungo and that rediculous contract.

Understand, I like Lou, but he isn't worth what people are saying here. A 1st, 2nd, gunnerson, Connelly, dreaming people. let's keep it real and remember, there is no, I repeat, no market for Lou.

WOW.
The messiah is among us.

What makes yuo think there is no other suitors besidies Toronto?
What makes you think Luo would waive to go to Toronto?

Also, only crazies are proposing the 5th overall or Gardiner, it's like the TOR fans who are pitching Komi+4th. Both equally ridiculous.

Let me remind you Burke has made some very questionable trades (Kessel) and he's under pressure to find a starting goalie.

Just because your words are put in a demeaning fashion doesn't mean your right.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying our POV's clash and usually the best way to get your point across is to show facts or to convince someone else.

I would agree with you though that both 5th, or Gardiner, or 1st+2nd+Gunnar+connolley is pretty crazy.

However I think something like: Schenn + Ashton is very doable from both sides.

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06-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #672
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Yep

A semi competent and semi comatose GM would trade a 1st in this situation. Toronto always overpays and this is not the time to repeat history. Even under ideal conditions for Vancouver, a 1st is way too much for Louongo and that contract.

A wise GM goes away and waits for something else. That pick could be used on so many other things then wasting it on Louongo.

Clemmenson for the time being if necessay and keep working but there is no way that TO gives up the 1st in this deal.

Vancouver is in a more vulnerable spot then To and therefore TO does not have to make this deal. I am sure that if need be Burke would be willing to start the season with the goaltenders he has in the system. Don't give away the future for a 33 year old with a foolish contract.

Keep Dreaming.

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06-18-2012, 02:20 PM
  #673
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I agree but to say there is no market is a bit off cuz the Leafs are interested so there is a market but mostly controlled by the Leafs. Either Van takes the offer or they don't and the Leafs can just get a so so UFA goalie to mentor Scrivens, He looks to be the next Smith. On one side of the coin Lou would be awesome but if it affects to development and future of Scrivens with the Leafs then no way jose. I'd rather be a lottery team for a cpl more years and have Scrivens developing into a top 5 goalie then have him bail in a cpl years cuz he can't get playing time behind Lou. Actually wait Lou can be the regular season goalie and Scrivens can be the playoff goalie LOL.
LOL! We'll see. A lot of AHL goalies don't do well in the NHL. If I had a dollar for every time an untested goalie was rumoured to be the next Mike Smith...
Maybe we'll trade both Schneider and Luongo as Eddie Lack looks like the next Mike Smith too!

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06-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #674
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LOL! We'll see. A lot of AHL goalies don't do well in the NHL. If I had a dollar for every time an untested goalie was rumoured to be the next Mike Smith...
Maybe we'll trade both Schneider and Luongo as Eddie Lack looks like then next Mike Smith too!
Well hey even when Scrivens played in the NHL last year he looked sweet, you could see he had the raw speed and skill but needed to adjust to the speed of the rush and adapt to the tricks of the NHLers. So Lou for Ashton+D'Amigo+2013 2nd or Schenn+Colbourne+2013 2nd for Lou+2012 2nd seems right to me and having Lou ahead of Scrivens doesn't seem to be as much as a developmental hurdle for Scrivens as i thought because Scrivens should be the playoff goalie and Lou the reg season goalie.

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06-18-2012, 02:28 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by Rude Dog View Post
Nuck fans seem to think Leaf fans are dying for Luongo. Truth is, the Leaf board would be split if the Leafs simply signed Loungo to that contract as a UFA this summer without giving up anything. To give up a major young building block (5th or Gardiner) would be brutal from our standpoint. An aging star that could help the Nucks now maybe...but it makes zero sense to give up youth. I simply don't trust Lu in net in big games.

Worst case, the Leafs don't fix their goal tending problems this summer and everyone laughs yet again. But getting a shot at MacInnon next year might be a blessing in disguise. Keep the re-build going.
So eight years out of the playoffs & you'd rather not trade for a top 10 goalie who could take your team deep into the playoffs because what you'd give up to get him is in your view more valuable?
Let's just keep the rebuild going???

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