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Luongo XI - Luoraker (Mod warning #432)

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Old
06-18-2012, 03:26 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by TRR View Post
You're in the business I suppose?
I know that Luongo doesn't want to be a back up goalie.

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06-18-2012, 03:27 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by the pucks View Post
potential destinations for luongo:

Toronto, florida, jersey, philly, columbus, edmonton, chicago, san jose, washington.

a case could be made for each location.

Edit: Heck i have even seen montreal fans cruse into these threads and check him out, detroit onlookers from time to time.
how?

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06-18-2012, 03:27 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo is a better goalie than Ryan Miller, Cam Ward, Miikka Kiprusoff, Kari Lehtonen and Carey Price.
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Not sure what's funny about that? Miller has had only 1 season that
hes bested Luongo. Ward is an incredibly overrated goalie who's more in the 10-15 range. Kipper is very inconsistent. One year he looks great, the next his SVP is around 0.900. Price hasn't done anything that sets him ahead of Luongo, and Lehtonen is an average goalie.

As a fan that sees a lot of the goaltenders you mentioned above, I'd compare them to Luongo in the following fashion:

Ryan Miller > Roberto Luongo
Cam Ward > Roberto Luongo
Miikka Kiprusoff < Roberto Luongo
Kari Lehtonen < Roberto Luongo
Carey Price > Roberto Luongo

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06-18-2012, 03:28 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Not sure what's funny about that? Miller has had only 1 season that
hes bested Luongo. Ward is an incredibly overrated goalie who's more in the 10-15 range. Kipper is very inconsistent. One year he looks great, the next his SVP is around 0.900. Price hasn't done anything that sets him ahead of Luongo, and Lehtonen is an average goalie.
ward has won the stanley cup that to as a rookie with a SV of .920 GA 2.14 which neither of kipper, luongo, miller or price have, i think the cup outweighs all their achievements

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06-18-2012, 03:30 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
As a fan that sees a lot of the goaltenders you mentioned above, I'd compare them to Luongo in the following fashion:

Ryan Miller > Roberto Luongo
Cam Ward > Roberto Luongo
Miikka Kiprusoff < Roberto Luongo
Kari Lehtonen < Roberto Luongo
Carey Price > Roberto Luongo
As someone who watches a lot of hockey as well I'd take Price over Luongo but none of the others. Ward has become pretty overrated as a result of his Cup win a number of years ago. With goalies, certain ones like Lehtonen become hot for a year and get moved up the list. This is one position where I think long term success matters as well as recent success.

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06-18-2012, 03:31 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
As a fan that sees a lot of the goaltenders you mentioned above, I'd compare them to Luongo in the following fashion:

Ryan Miller > Roberto Luongo
Cam Ward > Roberto Luongo
Miikka Kiprusoff < Roberto Luongo
Kari Lehtonen < Roberto Luongo
Carey Price > Roberto Luongo
IMO:
Miller < Luongo
Ward < Luongo
Kiprusoff > Luongo
Lehtonen > Luongo
Price > Luongo

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
As someone who watches a lot of hockey as well I'd take Price over Luongo but none of the others. Ward has become pretty overrated as a result of his Cup win a number of years ago.
This.

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06-18-2012, 03:32 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
As a fan that sees a lot of the goaltenders you mentioned above, I'd compare them to Luongo in the following fashion:

Ryan Miller > Roberto Luongo
Cam Ward > Roberto Luongo
Miikka Kiprusoff < Roberto Luongo
Kari Lehtonen < Roberto Luongo
Carey Price > Roberto Luongo
What have Miller and Price accomplished that Luongo hasn't? Lou outduelled Miller at the 2010 Olympics in the arguably the biggest games of their careers.

Price hasn't lead his team past the second round

Also Ward hasn't done anything notable since his rookie season. His reputation is solely based on one season, and that was his first one.

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06-18-2012, 03:37 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
ward has won the stanley cup that to as a rookie with a SV of .920 GA 2.14 which neither of kipper, luongo, miller or price have, i think the cup outweighs all their achievements
it outweighs their achievements, not their abilities.

Directed at the masses:

I can't see anyway Kari Lehtonen is better than Luongo...

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06-18-2012, 03:37 PM
  #759
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Just cuz some Leaf fans don't see Lou as top 10 doesn't mean we don't want him. Even tho the argument could be made that he has/had top 5 stats his value is in no way near top 5. Take a look at all the goalies playing in the NHL and pick what you think is the best on down and Lou is roughly 13-15th on mine. That's not considering age, salary and rate of development/decline. If I were to consider all of those Scrivens would actually be higher on my list that Lou and M.Subban would be right up there.

 
Old
06-18-2012, 03:39 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
What have Miller and Price accomplished that Luongo hasn't? Lou outduelled Miller at the 2010 Olympics in the arguably the biggest games of their careers.

Price hasn't lead his team past the second round

Also Ward hasn't done anything notable since his rookie season. His reputation is solely based on one season, and that was his first one.
None of those guys has 10 years or 47 million left owing on their contracts.

None of those guys has a reputation of being a choker (whether or not Bobby Lou deserves this rep is another story)

All of those Goalies are the undisputed starters on their teams.

Luongo appears to be the backup on his team ATM.

Its not just about stats, term, salary, injury history, (Conn Smyth/Stanley cup winner for Ward) all affect the perception of value especially in a cap world.

No one here is saying Luongo isn't a good goalie but when you put the whole picture together he isn't more valuable to the teams those other guys play for because of the reasons listed above.

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06-18-2012, 03:39 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
ward has won the stanley cup that to as a rookie with a SV of .920 GA 2.14 which neither of kipper, luongo, miller or price have, i think the cup outweighs all their achievements
Yes, let's take a ~20 game sample size rather than the 300+ game sample size. That makes a lot of sense.

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06-18-2012, 03:41 PM
  #762
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Just cuz some Leaf fans don't see Lou as top 10 doesn't mean we don't want him. Even tho the argument could be made that he has/had top 5 stats his value is in no way near top 5. Take a look at all the goalies playing in the NHL and pick what you think is the best on down and Lou is roughly 13-15th on mine. That's not considering age, salary and rate of development/decline. If I were to consider all of those Scrivens would actually be higher on my list that Lou and M.Subban would be right up there.
Maybe you could post how you arrived at that ranking. In any event, I believe there was a poll recently on the top goalies on HF and Luongo was ranked 6th or 7th IIRC. I'd say that would be about right if you ignore age. Most people tend to rate goalies on their last season stats so players like Mason, Elliott etc tend to get rated above the legitimate top goalies like Luongo. Scrivens belongs on no list. He's not even in the conversation. He may one day develop into an NHL starter but that is not a certainty.

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06-18-2012, 03:42 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
None of those guys has 10 years or 47 million left owing on their contracts.

None of those guys has a reputation of being a choker (whether or not Bobby Lou deserves this rep is another story)

All of those Goalies are the undisputed starters on their teams.

Luongo appears to be the backup on his team ATM.


Its not just about stats, term, salary, injury history, (Conn Smyth/Stanley cup winner for Ward) all affect the perception of value especially in a cap world.

No one here is saying Luongo isn't a good goalie but when you put the whole picture together he isn't more valuable to the teams those other guys play for because of the reasons listed above.
I love this way of thinking. If you have Roy and Hasek, but you play Roy more, does that mean Hasek is less valuable(Not comparing players here).

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06-18-2012, 03:43 PM
  #764
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Extremely expensive? 5.3m cap hit is low for a goaltender of his talent, just look at what other comparable goalies are making.
Well, OK.

Letís not talk about the past because this deal is all about the future. Not about what Lu did last year, or two years ago, but what he will do next year, two years, six years, from now.

This past season, despite a fantastic season on a Stanley Cup contender, at least according to Canuck fans, Luongo was 12th in save percentage at .919. Letís compare.

Here are the other goalies tied with him and what they made this past season (cap hit):

Nick Backstrom $6 million, UFA next summer
JS Giguere $1.25 million, UFA next summer

Heck, letís even go to a .920 save percentage and give Lu the benefit of the doubt.

Tim Thomas $5 million, UFA next summer
Jimmy Howard $2.25 million, UFA next summer

The next three after Luongo (.917):

Harding $750,000, UFA July 1
Vokoun $1.5 million, signed with Pittsburgh
Theodore $1.5 million, UFA next summer

In GAA, Lu was 14th at 2.41, tied with:

Martin Brodeur $5.2 million, UFA July 1

Rinne, Thomas and Fleury, the three goalies directly ahead of Lu in GAA, all had lower cap hits this season. Of all those goalies just listed with almost identical numbers this year, guess how many have a higher cap hit? ONE.

There are just seven goalies in the league with a higher cap hit, one of which is Rinne, who just signed a huge deal and the hit doesnít go into effect until next year. None of them have even close to the same term as Luongo.

Are you starting to see now why this contract is not the slam-dunk Canuck fans claim?

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06-18-2012, 03:45 PM
  #765
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What have Miller and Price accomplished that Luongo hasn't? Lou outduelled Miller at the 2010 Olympics in the arguably the biggest games of their careers.Price hasn't lead his team past the second round

Also Ward hasn't done anything notable since his rookie season. His reputation is solely based on one season, and that was his first one.
Seriously? I dont think the rest of the world remembers the Olympics going that way. The Canadian team won inspite of Luongo while Miller held an overpowered American team in that final game. Should never have gone to overtime except for the softies Luongo gave up.

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06-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #766
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Seriously? I dont think the rest of the world remembers the Olympics going that way. The Canadian team won inspite of Luongo while Miller held an overpowered American team in that final game. Should never have gone to overtime except for the softies Luongo gave up.
Miller let in a bit of a stinker to Crosby at the end but I would rate Miller as the best goalie of the tournament. Luongo played quite well under a lot of pressure though. His last second save on Demitra was probably the save of the tournament.

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06-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #767
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Seriously? I dont think the rest of the world remembers the Olympics going that way. The Canadian team won inspite of Luongo while Miller held an overpowered American team in that final game. Should never have gone to overtime except for the softies Luongo gave up.

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06-18-2012, 03:49 PM
  #768
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Luongo is a better goalie than Ryan Miller, Cam Ward, Miikka Kiprusoff, Kari Lehtonen and Carey Price.
In the past, yes. Right now, at this stage of their careers, it is no slam dunk to say he is better than Ward, Miller, or Price. And if he is, it isn't by much.

The point is the other four of the five are excellent goaltenders who couldn't carry their respective teams to the playoffs. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lu could, either.

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06-18-2012, 03:50 PM
  #769
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You just can't win.
Of course, everyone remembers Crosby as the hero of the tournament despite the fact that he did very little before that and everyone forgets the save Luongo made on Demitra in the game against the Slovaks.

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06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Seriously? I dont think the rest of the world remembers the Olympics going that way. The Canadian team won inspite of Luongo while Miller held an overpowered American team in that final game. Should never have gone to overtime except for the softies Luongo gave up.
Are you serious? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEcElmDLqE

I see the first goal being a poor goal Luongo let in, yet the overtime goal was also pretty brutal. The second though luongo had no chance..

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06-18-2012, 03:52 PM
  #771
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I love this way of thinking. If you have Roy and Hasek, but you play Roy more, does that mean Hasek is less valuable(Not comparing players here).
sure looks like you are

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06-18-2012, 03:54 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
In the past, yes. Right now, at this stage of their careers, it is no slam dunk to say he is better than Ward, Miller, or Price. And if he is, it isn't by much.

The point is the other four of the five are excellent goaltenders who couldn't carry their respective teams to the playoffs. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lu could, either.
None of those teams struggled with their goaltending like the Leafs did with theirs though. I'd agree that Luongo doesn't quite fit in with the absolute top goalies in the league, but he's not far off...he's in the same class as a Price, Miller and Ward...and any of those goalies can be among the best in the league for given periods of time.

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06-18-2012, 03:55 PM
  #773
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sure looks like you are

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06-18-2012, 03:56 PM
  #774
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Seriously? I dont think the rest of the world remembers the Olympics going that way. The Canadian team won inspite of Luongo while Miller held an overpowered American team in that final game. Should never have gone to overtime except for the softies Luongo gave up.
Luongo outplayed Miller in that final game or, at the very least, played him even.

Final regulation shots were 32-32 and 39-36 Canada overall. That game was a flip of the coin, Luongo or no Luongo.

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06-18-2012, 03:57 PM
  #775
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You think Roy or Hasek would be playing for the same team in a cap world? or that either one would tolerate not being the go to guy?

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