It's Ok to have untouchables but you can't have too many untouchables. Hagelin is a good complimentary player - that's it.
Nash isn't going to fetch a huge package, not one with multiple top prospects.
WPG isn't going to get a huge package for Kane either. A top prospect + good prospect (or a good roster player or a mid to late 1st rounder). That's the most they should get. Neither Nash or Kane is gonna bring back a Lindros return (the 1st Lindros trade).
And stop including Enstrom in deals as a throw-in. The guys one of the top point producing Dmen in the league. He's UFA after next season so he'd make a great rental and would bring a good return at the deadline - and that's if the Jets dont sign him to an extension.
I still don't get why everyone here is so in love with Kane ... sure he is a raw talent, but I would not give up the farm for him. He is not Nash ... not even close.
After all those years in Columbus, I'm sure Nash wants to go to a contender but he's still only 27. He's not on borrowed ti e yet. As for Vancouver, still a more attractive destination for a player looking for a Cup. Still one of the most talented teams in the league. To argue otherwise is just silly.
he's declined every year for what, 4 years? we have to consider that he is past his prime. he may not be pushing up daisy's just yet, but to have that decline by age 27 you can't imagine that he'll last that long.
all i was pointing out is that vancouver is going to have some pretty big problems with lungo's contract (5.3 million for a backup). i might've worded it a little too abysmally, but it's certainly something that we can't overlook. schneider is RFA now. after his performance i'm sure his agent is looking for a great, long deal and if luongo plays as poorly as he did in the playoffs this year (albeit his team was not backing him that much) then they're going to want schneider at any cost. it's definitely not as bad as i worded it to be, but it's an important thing to consider.
That package probably wouldn't get us Kane. And def not Enström too.
Kane is not a superstar yet. Goligoski got Neal and Niskanen. Del Zotto is younger, just like Kane is younger than Neal. I really don't think it will take more than Del Z + 1st for Kane, if he's actually available.
It's also why I'm against trading for Nash unless it's only for three assets ie. Dubinsky, Del Z and either our first OR Miller. I can see CBJ being more interested in Miller due to him being an Ohio native.
Some of you guys need to stop putting 3-4 roster players in proposals. Our fourth line last year was not overly defensively responsible, nor were they any good offensively. Our third line, the way Tortorella utilizes it, was barely any good offensively. We do not have the depth to trade away that many players. If some of you guys were running this team, we would have Mitchell and Rupp on our third line due to lack of depth and some no-names on the fourth.
In all honesty ... the move that makes the most sense for the Rangers would be to trade for Nash.
Why? It's simple ... it's not a trade of talent for talent ... it would be a salary dump trade (regardless of what anyone tells you otherwise) ... how is that beneficial? Well, because of that, we don't have to give up a huge chunk of our core talent and acquire the firepower we need. Trading for a young upcoming star, you will have to seriously pay for it (in terms of talent going back the other way) because you are getting high production for low cost (which everyone wants) ... this is simple economics ... trading for Nash makes sense, trading for Kane, or Ryan (unless they are being given away) does not.
Kane is not a superstar yet. Goligoski got Neal and Niskanen. Del Zotto is younger, just like Kane is younger than Neal. I really don't think it will take more than Del Z + 1st for Kane, if he's actually available.
It's also why I'm against trading for Nash unless it's only for three assets ie. Dubinsky, Del Z and either our first OR Miller. I can see CBJ being more interested in Miller due to him being an Ohio native.
Some of you guys need to stop putting 3-4 roster players in proposals. Our fourth line last year was not overly defensively responsible, nor were they any good offensively. Our third line, the way Tortorella utilizes it, was barely any good offensively. We do not have the depth to trade away that many players. If some of you guys were running this team, we would have Mitchell and Rupp on our third line due to lack of depth and some no-names on the fourth.
Which is even more of a reason why Nash makes more sense. When you look at his contract and age ... no way will he net a huge return, it is a salary dump, meaning you will keep a large part of your core in tact and everyone takes a step back in terms of where you shift them on their lines. Adding Nash without giving up a large part of your core will make this team very dangerous.
If i am the Jets, I move him at the deadline when someone needs offensive punch for little cost (financially) ... that would actually net back a quality player or pick. Moving him now doesn't make much sense no matter how disgruntled he is, he is not a superstar like Nash where it will become a circus and force a trade.
Did I see Heatley's name in here? Please don't make me jump out my window. Dubinsky is my whipping boy and getting Heatley would make Dubi look like Sidney ****in Crosby
In all honesty ... the move that makes the most sense for the Rangers would be to trade for Nash.
Why? It's simple ... it's not a trade of talent for talent ... it would be a salary dump trade (regardless of what anyone tells you otherwise) ... how is that beneficial? Well, because of that, we don't have to give up a huge chunk of our core talent and acquire the firepower we need. Trading for a young upcoming star, you will have to seriously pay for it (in terms of talent going back the other way) because you are getting high production for low cost (which everyone wants) ... this is simple economics ... trading for Nash makes sense, trading for Kane, or Ryan (unless they are being given away) does not.
um... have you read anything at all about what howson wants for nash?
nash is a 7.8 million cap hit for a 30 goal scorer who's declined for the past 4 years. they want half of our team for him including, but not limited to del zotto, kreider, stepan, erixon, multiple 1st/second picks, thomas, staal, girardi, mcdonagh.
not to mention you get a 28 year old vs a 20 year old.
AND
kane is reportedly not interested in signing for winnipeg-- which means that their hands are tied and the buyer has the leeway because the trade is involving a free agent who has the right to choose not to sign.
kane has an incredibly high ceiling that has grown each of his 3 years in the league. nash is past his prime. kane's the better choice @ what columbus is asking for AINEC.
Which is even more of a reason why Nash makes more sense. When you look at his contract and age ... no way will he net a huge return, it is a salary dump, meaning you will keep a large part of your core in tact and everyone takes a step back in terms of where you shift them on their lines. Adding Nash without giving up a large part of your core will make this team very dangerous.
A salary dump is getting rid of Gomez, that we got lucky in getting a great player back.
Nash is still a great offensive player. As much as I don't want him, it's not going to cost peanuts, and if that was COL plan all along, he'd be gone already.
um... have you read anything at all about what howson wants for nash?
nash is a 7.8 million cap hit for a 30 goal scorer who's declined for the past 4 years. they want half of our team for him including, but not limited to del zotto, kreider, stepan, erixon, multiple 1st/second picks, thomas, staal, girardi, mcdonagh.
not to mention you get a 28 year old vs a 20 year old.
AND
kane is reportedly not interested in signing for winnipeg-- which means that their hands are tied and the buyer has the leeway because the trade is involving a free agent who has the right to choose not to sign.
kane has an incredibly high ceiling that has grown each of his 3 years in the league. nash is past his prime. kane's the better choice @ what columbus is asking for AINEC.
Absolutely I have read it, and it is complete posturing. He wants to get the most he can and I do not blame him one bit. But no team is crazy enough to dump half their roster AND take that cap hit. Once the price comes down (talent wise) and I am SURE it will, he will be moved.
A salary dump is getting rid of Gomez, that we got lucky in getting a great player back.
Nash is still a great offensive player. As much as I don't want him, it's not going to cost peanuts, and if that was COL plan all along, he'd be gone already.
Not saying he isn't great, however when you look at his contract ... it is a salary dump from one standpoint ... there's only a handful of teams that can afford him, AND he controls his own destiny. Those two factors make it even more likely you will not overpay for him. And if Toronto for argument sake decides to empty their roster and pay him ... then so be it and move on to a plan B, but I would hold out and see what happens.
I would take Enstrom at the right price. We could definitely use him on the PP, that's for sure.
We add a guy like Enstrom to our PP along with Kreider and we are in business this season and we can accomplish that without Nash and or giving up the farm to do so . DZ for Enstrom straight up...maybe even add a little sweetner and then have Thorburn thrown in .
We add a guy like Enstrom to our PP along with Kreider and we are in business this season and we can accomplish that without Nash and or giving up the farm to do so . DZ for Enstrom straight up...maybe even add a little sweetner and then have Thorburn thrown in .
Enstrom is a 50 point player. Del Zotto is a 40 point player. Not seeing where this is such a huge gain that I'd do it straight up.
Enstrom is one of the most underrated players in the league. He's a superb puck moving defenseman. He didn't have a great year this season, but I would pay a hefty sum to acquire him. He's one of the best playmakers from the blueline, he's an awesome passer, and he's a very intelligent offensive player. Heck, they should forget about any other player moves and try to send one big package to WPG for Enstrom and Kane!
Enstrom is a 50 point player. Del Zotto is a 40 point player. Not seeing where this is such a huge gain that I'd do it straight up.
Stop and think about DZ on the point on the PP with him in possession of the puck...now think about what he usually does next . Imagine a guy that turns them chances into goals...you are now thinking about Enstrom . He would have 25 more points...if you think it is all about the point totals...and in all honesty...not even comparable . DZ just is not a great thinker/passer or shooter on the PP ...maybe in time...and maybe not !
Enstrom is one of the most underrated players in the league. He's a superb puck moving defenseman. He didn't have a great year this season, but I would pay a hefty sum to acquire him. He's one of the best playmakers from the blueline, he's an awesome passer, and he's a very intelligent offensive player. Heck, they should forget about any other player moves and try to send one big package to WPG for Enstrom and Kane!
Yup...go for it this year . Here is some more Kane .
Stop and think about DZ on the point on the PP with him in possession of the puck...now think about what he usually does next . Imagine a guy that turns them chances into goals...you are now thinking about Enstrom . He would have 25 more points...if you think it is all about the point totals...and in all honesty...not even comparable . DZ just is not a great thinker/passer or shooter on the PP ...maybe in time...and maybe not !
Enstrom is another guy we'd be bringing in to improve our PP. What would he be, number 25? 50? I'm sick of bringing in these guys to improve the PP that don't work, and we'd be giving up a 21 year old to do it. The problem needs to be fixed at the root: our PP is poorly coached.
It's Ok to have untouchables but you can't have too many untouchables. Hagelin is a good complimentary player - that's it.
Nash isn't going to fetch a huge package, not one with multiple top prospects.
WPG isn't going to get a huge package for Kane either. A top prospect + good prospect (or a good roster player or a mid to late 1st rounder). That's the most they should get. Neither Nash or Kane is gonna bring back a Lindros return (the 1st Lindros trade).
And stop including Enstrom in deals as a throw-in. The guys one of the top point producing Dmen in the league. He's UFA after next season so he'd make a great rental and would bring a good return at the deadline - and that's if the Jets dont sign him to an extension.
I don't really have untouchables, I just don't want the team to trade good, fast, hard forechecking players for players like Nash who have gotten nothing, but worse over the last 3 to 4 years and doesnt seem to be around when the going gets tough for his team. Hes a 60 to 70 point player at best now and that contract is toobig andlonger for that. If anything players like Hagelin should be what we are looking for, not trading away. That kind of speed and tenacity makes your team much more dangerous.
I don't think Kane will be dealt and Enstrom really won't be traded. At least not yet.
And to Vitto, I'm with you. I don't want any of these sacks. They all come with question marks when you could just sign players from free agency that have equal question marks but we don't have to give up our players.
