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Brian Burke talking Leafs and business of hockey (26 min video)

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:53 AM
  #101
daveleaf
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Well, if you would look above, you would see...


Kadri may be small, but he plays with toughness and attitude. That's one of the reasons Burke drafted him. And in terms of puck control and "dangling", he is probably the most talented player in the organization.

Once we acquire a 1st line center, we will have exceptional centre depth. The problem is, acquiring a number one center is hard to do, but all of you expect it to happen in an instant. We may get our center in the draft this year.

He has signed some bad UFAs (including some like Beachemin which turned into a goldmine). He has signed some good UFAs (including Macarthur, which was the best bang for your buck player that year). That's what UFA is. You win some, you lose some, because you're getting the player for free. The good UFAs got us a good player for free. The bad UFAs got us either a bad player at no cost, or a bunch of great pieces for the future like Lupul and Gardiner.

You may take Seguin, Hamilton, Knight (which isn't what we traded) over Kessel, but so far, only one player from each side has made the NHL, and the Leafs got the better end of that. If it turns out to be a loss for the Leafs, oh fricken well. The number of worse trades is endless, even in recent memory. It's not even the worst Boston-Toronto trade since the lockout. We got a PPG goal-scoring winger out of it.

You win some, you lose some, and Burke has more than made up for any "mistakes" he may have made in his short time here.
You don't make millions to make decisions on UFA's to come away saying 'you win some and you loose some'. You don't win Stanley Cups that way either. If you actually listen to Nonis, they were targeting Schultz but had to take Gardiner and no one at that point thought Lupul would recover. Luck or stroke of genius? I will take the luck, it worked out well.

Kadri has been one of our best prospects but the only dangling that has happened was Burke asking him to gain weight, than loose weight, then work on his game when at the last camp was our best forward. You don't dangle him by asking him to play three different positions on three different lines and then say he isn't catching on. I don't want to hear the way Kadri has been treated.

I would take Seguin, Hamilton and Knight over Kessel since I know in the long run that is rebuilding. I would take three very good players to one player who is not a franchise player but this has been beaten to death.

Burke has this year to get it straight. If the year ends like the last one, he will be gone either through his own choice or asked to leave. He has made a couple of good moves but his bark has been bigger than his bite.

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06-18-2012, 12:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
You don't make millions to make decisions on UFA's to come away saying 'you win some and you loose some'. You don't win Stanley Cups that way either. If you actually listen to Nonis, they were targeting Schultz but had to take Gardiner and no one at that point thought Lupul would recover. Luck or stroke of genius? I will take the luck, it worked out well.

Kadri has been one of our best prospects but the only dangling that has happened was Burke asking him to gain weight, than loose weight, then work on his game when at the last camp was our best forward. You don't dangle him by asking him to play three different positions on three different lines and then say he isn't catching on. I don't want to hear the way Kadri has been treated.

I would take Seguin, Hamilton and Knight over Kessel since I know in the long run that is rebuilding. I would take three very good players to one player who is not a franchise player but this has been beaten to death.

Burke has this year to get it straight. If the year ends like the last one, he will be gone either through his own choice or asked to leave. He has made a couple of good moves but his bark has been bigger than his bite.
Actually, people do make millions to come out of UFA and say "you win some you lose some". 30 GMs in the league do that, as do hundreds of other GMs in other leagues in all professional sports around the world. That's also how you win Stanley Cups. Those UFAs being good UFAs at the right time. Even if you get more bad UFAs than good UFAs, you get a bigger net benefit than not getting any UFAs at all.

Shultz is an amazing prospect too, and we may even get him this summer *because* we got Gardiner, so I'm not sure what your point was with that...

Kadri has been treated like all prospects are treated. In fact, he probably would have stayed up this year if not for his injury. It sucks that Frattin stepped up and outplayed him, and Kadri went through some struggles in rehab, but that's how things work out. Kadri had some things he needed to work on, and he gets a chance to work on it in the best environment for him. The only reason that you don't see as many high draft picks not in the NHL by this time (though there are more than you think) is because most teams who have these draft picks suck a lot more than us. Kadri will get his chance this year.

Sometimes you give more players or picks to get the superior player. That's what we did with Kessel. That's what we did with Phaneuf. Kessel is closer to being a franchise player than any player Boston got.

Burke will not be fired this year, regardless of what happens. Burke will finish out his contract at the very least, and will probably be re-signed past that. If not, he will be picked up by another team almost instantly. All of you are impatient and media-sucking zombies, so you imagine a lot more pressure on Burke than really exists.

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06-18-2012, 01:34 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Shultz is an amazing prospect too, and we may even get him this summer *because* we got Gardiner, so I'm not sure what your point was with that...
His point was that Burke wanted Schultz instead of Gardiner.

If the trade went Burke's way, Schultz would be leaving our team this summer, without ever playing a game, to go back to Anaheim and play with Gardiner.

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06-18-2012, 01:45 PM
  #104
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His point was that Burke wanted Schultz instead of Gardiner.

If the trade went Burke's way, Schultz would be leaving our team this summer, without ever playing a game, to go back to Anaheim and play with Gardiner.
Except we have no idea if he actually would have left Toronto in that case.

Also, if you are going to count the lucky breaks against his favour, like the draft picks in the Kessel trade, then you have to accept the lucky breaks that went in his favour, like the Gardiner situation.

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06-18-2012, 02:37 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Except we have no idea if he actually would have left Toronto in that case.

Also, if you are going to count the lucky breaks against his favour, like the draft picks in the Kessel trade, then you have to accept the lucky breaks that went in his favour, like the Gardiner situation.
How was the Kessel trade unlucky? That was just an overpayment and a bad read on the strength of the team.

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06-18-2012, 02:39 PM
  #106
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How was the Kessel trade unlucky? That was just an overpayment and a bad read on the strength of the team.
Overpayment? How?

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06-18-2012, 02:45 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Actually, people do make millions to come out of UFA and say "you win some you lose some". 30 GMs in the league do that, as do hundreds of other GMs in other leagues in all professional sports around the world. That's also how you win Stanley Cups. Those UFAs being good UFAs at the right time. Even if you get more bad UFAs than good UFAs, you get a bigger net benefit than not getting any UFAs at all.

Shultz is an amazing prospect too, and we may even get him this summer *because* we got Gardiner, so I'm not sure what your point was with that...

Kadri has been treated like all prospects are treated. In fact, he probably would have stayed up this year if not for his injury. It sucks that Frattin stepped up and outplayed him, and Kadri went through some struggles in rehab, but that's how things work out. Kadri had some things he needed to work on, and he gets a chance to work on it in the best environment for him. The only reason that you don't see as many high draft picks not in the NHL by this time (though there are more than you think) is because most teams who have these draft picks suck a lot more than us. Kadri will get his chance this year.

Sometimes you give more players or picks to get the superior player. That's what we did with Kessel. That's what we did with Phaneuf. Kessel is closer to being a franchise player than any player Boston got.

Burke will not be fired this year, regardless of what happens. Burke will finish out his contract at the very least, and will probably be re-signed past that. If not, he will be picked up by another team almost instantly. All of you are impatient and media-sucking zombies, so you imagine a lot more pressure on Burke than really exists.
Other teams prospects get in faster because their teams suck a lot more than the leafs? I'm not sure you posted that correctly.

Seguin and Hamilton have a better chance of being a franchise player than Kessel. Kessel is a special talent but not a franchise player IMO.

I believe Burkes contract is up at the end of this year so that guys post was correct. He has this year to prove himself and by your statement you by default agree with it. You did say he would be with Toronto at the very least until his contract has expired.

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06-18-2012, 02:51 PM
  #108
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Seguin and Hamilton have a better chance of being a franchise player than Kessel. Kessel is a special talent but not a franchise player IMO.
Please let us know the first time the opposing team plans their strategy around countering Seguin or Hamilton. Until then saying that they have a better potential to become franchise players than Kessel is kind of ridiculous.

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06-18-2012, 02:52 PM
  #109
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Overpayment? How?
We gave up too much...

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06-18-2012, 02:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Other teams prospects get in faster because their teams suck a lot more than the leafs? I'm not sure you posted that correctly.

Seguin and Hamilton have a better chance of being a franchise player than Kessel. Kessel is a special talent but not a franchise player IMO.

I believe Burkes contract is up at the end of this year so that guys post was correct. He has this year to prove himself and by your statement you by default agree with it. You did say he would be with Toronto at the very least until his contract has expired.
look it up...he signed 6 years in Nov /08...means his contract is up in Nov 2014

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06-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Please let us know the first time the opposing team plans their strategy around countering Seguin or Hamilton. Until then saying that they have a better potential to become franchise players than Kessel is kind of ridiculous.
A franchise player is something you plan and build your team around.

I do agree with you that Seguin may never become that kind of player. The point is that he might. Since Kessel never will, there's a better chance for Seguin.


Last edited by hototogisu: 06-18-2012 at 03:11 PM. Reason: no flaming
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06-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #112
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How was the Kessel trade unlucky? That was just an overpayment and a bad read on the strength of the team.
Two 1sts and a 2nd is not overpayment for a player of Kessel's caliber. The end result of where those picks ended up was unlucky, especially since anything except for the first two picks in 2010 would have meant a runaway win for Burke.

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06-18-2012, 03:00 PM
  #113
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Overpayment? How?
Since Kessel arrived our picks have been #2, #8, and #5, so there is no question Phil has had a tremendous influence on the future of the Leafs.

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06-18-2012, 03:03 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Two 1sts and a 2nd is not overpayment for a player of Kessel's caliber. The end result of where those picks ended up was unlucky, especially since anything except for the first two picks in 2010 would have meant a runaway win for Burke.
How do you explain that with Kessel in our lineup our place in the standings has steadly fallen. Unlucky or Stupidity.

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06-18-2012, 03:06 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Two 1sts and a 2nd is not overpayment for a player of Kessel's caliber. The end result of where those picks ended up was unlucky, especially since anything except for the first two picks in 2010 would have meant a runaway win for Burke.
Yeah, adding a player of Kessel's caliber sure turned the Leafs right around, didn't it? As I've said before, Kessel is a good offensive weapon, and he's a good support player, but don't expect him to actually lead the team anywhere.

Where those picks ended up had nothing to do with luck. The Leafs landed exactly where they belonged. They were a terrible team, and that's exactly why you don't make that trade.

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06-18-2012, 03:09 PM
  #116
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Other teams prospects get in faster because their teams suck a lot more than the leafs? I'm not sure you posted that correctly.

Seguin and Hamilton have a better chance of being a franchise player than Kessel. Kessel is a special talent but not a franchise player IMO.

I believe Burkes contract is up at the end of this year so that guys post was correct. He has this year to prove himself and by your statement you by default agree with it. You did say he would be with Toronto at the very least until his contract has expired.
Yes, our depth is pretty deep now, which is why we were a top-10 team in GF this year. Something that is very rare for a team in our position. This results in a tougher time breaking the ranks, and more development time in the minors.

Neither Seguin nor Hamilton have shown anything to make anybody think that they can be franchise players, especially not more than Kessel at this point in time.

I believe Burke has 2 more years on his current deal. Either way, management has trust in him and he has done nothing to be fired for.

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06-18-2012, 03:10 PM
  #117
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Since Kessel arrived our picks have been #2, #8, and #5, so there is no question Phil has had a tremendous influence on the future of the Leafs.
"Our" picks. Hilarious.

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06-18-2012, 03:12 PM
  #118
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Yeah, adding a player of Kessel's caliber sure turned the Leafs right around, didn't it? As I've said before, Kessel is a good offensive weapon, and he's a good support player, but don't expect him to actually lead the team anywhere.

Where those picks ended up had nothing to do with luck. The Leafs landed exactly where they belonged. They were a terrible team, and that's exactly why you don't make that trade.
Okay, so let's play the game where Seguin and Hamilton are Leafs.

Does that make you feel a whole lot better and why?

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06-18-2012, 03:16 PM
  #119
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How do you explain that with Kessel in our lineup our place in the standings has steadly fallen. Unlucky or Stupidity.
I call it parity and a team being a team and not composed of one individual, and subject to the same up and downs, and breaks and roadblocks as the other teams in the league.

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06-18-2012, 03:37 PM
  #120
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Okay, so let's play the game where Seguin and Hamilton are Leafs.

Does that make you feel a whole lot better and why?
It does make me feel a lot better. Seguin alone would be better than Kessel.

Seguin has a chance to become a franchise player. There are no guarentees, but Leaf fans would at least have some hope going forward. Kessel is a great offensive producer, but will never be the kind of player to build a team around - he lacks character.

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06-18-2012, 03:42 PM
  #121
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It does make me feel a lot better. Seguin alone would be better than Kessel.

Seguin has a chance to become a franchise player. There are no guarentees, but Leaf fans would at least have some hope going forward. Kessel is a great offensive producer, but will never be the kind of player to build a team around - he lacks character.
And this "lack of character" is based off of what?

And what has Seguin done to prove this character?

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06-18-2012, 03:44 PM
  #122
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It does make me feel a lot better. Seguin alone would be better than Kessel.

Seguin has a chance to become a franchise player. There are no guarentees, but Leaf fans would at least have some hope going forward. Kessel is a great offensive producer, but will never be the kind of player to build a team around - he lacks character.
Please submit some examples of Kessel's lack of character.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1119775

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06-18-2012, 03:48 PM
  #123
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You guys should start a new thread. I don't think the Kessel trade has really been discussed yet, and this topic is very interesting.

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06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #124
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A franchise player is something you plan and build your team around.

I do agree with you that Seguin may never become that kind of player. The point is that he might. Since Kessel never will, there's a better chance for Seguin.
Seguin might become a franchise player but Kessel who is the better player never will. That's pretty funny.

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06-18-2012, 04:02 PM
  #125
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And this "lack of character" is based off of what?
Watching him play mostly.

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And what has Seguin done to prove this character?
Did I say he has?

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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Please submit some examples of Kessel's lack of character.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1119775
Gone through it many times, but here goes again....

Physically Soft
Mentally Soft
Selfish
Lazy

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