Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
jeh, you are looking at it strictly from a position of absolutely always getting some sort of return on a player, and not from a position of what is best for the team. Nashville is growing its fan base a lot right now. Remaining competitive has been vital to that, and will continue to be vital to that. That's why Suter is absolutely not irrelevant. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
You don't have the best pairing in the league one season, and then lose that pairing before the next just so you can say you got something in return for a guy you would have had for another year. If Poile did that he would effectively be saying, "OK we had back to back second round exits, one of which came with the youngest team Nashville has ever had, and have missed the playoffs once since the season before the lock out. I guess it's time to rebuild."
Poile has no incentive to give up Weber's last year without the other team overpaying so much that he just can't say no. I don't see a team gutting itself like that, but hey... if someone wants to then by all means give Poile a call.
That makes sense--I was simply trying to suggest that there might be a reasonable case to be made for moving Weber.
That isn't of course, to say that there isn't an equally reasonable case to be made for keeping him.
which is why he may know that Philly is interested in dealing for Weber should he become available. Guess what-- 28 other teams would also be interested. It's a no-brainer.
What I DON'T believe is that Nashville is entertaining offers. They're still operating under the assumption that Weber is going to sign long-term.
Teams are always entertaining offers. He may not be on the market per se but Poile would be a fool not to listen to any GM that has a package for Weber put together. He'd have to at least consider it.
I really don't understand this notion that Weber is going to re-sign if Suter walks. By most accounts it's not money that's the issue, it's wanting to play for a legitimate contender. So how is losing a top pairing defenseman going to help convince Weber to stay?
Obviously the best thing Nashville can do is hold on to Weber, problem is that's not in their hands. What is in their hands is maximizing the return for a player they stand a chance of losing for nothing, and at some point here they have to either get him to sign or cut the cord. To me, if Suter leaves (and all indications are pointing that way) moving Weber for 4+ pieces and retooling best serves the long term health of the franchise.
jeh, you are looking at it strictly from a position of absolutely always getting some sort of return on a player, and not from a position of what is best for the team. Nashville is growing its fan base a lot right now. Remaining competitive has been vital to that, and will continue to be vital to that. That's why Suter is absolutely not irrelevant. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
You don't have the best pairing in the league one season, and then lose that pairing before the next just so you can say you got something in return for a guy you would have had for another year. If Poile did that he would effectively be saying, "OK we had back to back second round exits, one of which came with the youngest team Nashville has ever had, and have missed the playoffs once since the season before the lock out. I guess it's time to rebuild."
Poile has no incentive to give up Weber's last year without the other team overpaying so much that he just can't say no. I don't see a team gutting itself like that, but hey... if someone wants to then by all means give Poile a call.
This entire "trade Weber" situation is hypothetical at this point. It's based on the presumption that Weber DOESN'T want to stay in Nashville long-term. I assume part of his decision to stay or go is dependent on what happens July 1st.
Assuming Suter leaves and Weber decides he isn't signing long-term in Nashville, THEN WHAT DOES POILE DO? This is the scenario, that I think most Flyers fans are operating under.
I really don't understand this notion that Weber is going to re-sign if Suter walks. By most accounts it's not money that's the issue, it's wanting to play for a legitimate contender. So how is losing a top pairing defenseman going to help convince Weber to stay?
Obviously the best thing Nashville can do is hold on to Weber, problem is that's not in their hands. What is in their hands is maximizing the return for a player they stand a chance of losing for nothing, and at some point here they have to either get him to sign or cut the cord. To me, if Suter leaves (and all indications are pointing that way) moving Weber for 4+ pieces and retooling best serves the long term health of the franchise.
For next season it is absolutely in their hands, and that's my point. If Suter stays I don't see a problem with Weber staying. If Suter walks it would be pretty dumb to just go ahead and dump Weber's last year for anything short of a king's ransom, and I'm not just talking picks and prospects. There would need to at least be a second pairing defenseman coming back. There would need to be a young forward or two with NHL experience coming back. After that, fill the rest in with picks and prospects.
I would argue what best serves the long-term health of the team is remaining competitive while the growing fan base is solidified. Nashville has plenty of young players. There is no point in giving up Weber's last RFA year unless the team can stay as good as it is with him.
so preds might lose suter and trade weber? Yeah right. Not going to happen.
That's a bit of an over-simplification, no?
The premise of this entire line of speculation is that Weber will not sign long-term.
In other words, faced with the choice of losing Suter (this year) and losing Weber (next year), the Predators might opt to trade the one they still control for next year for a massive package of picks, players, and prospects.
Of course they would only do that if they believed Weber wouldn't sign long-term. At that point, they basically have a choice between keeping Weber for the year and moving his rights for a 2nd at the 2013 draft, or moving him now for a much larger haul of assets.
I dont think it's unreasonable at all to suggest the Predators shop Weber.
At this point in his career, he can fetch a king's ransom. The same will not be true at this point next year.
It's really simple for Poile-- if he believes he can get Weber committed long term, he wont be shopping Weber. If he is unsure about Weber's future on the Preds, he will play the field and see if he can get some sort of package that will help the team.
I'm not sure why people get offended by the thought of this discussion. Weber's future is uncertain, and Poile needs to be sure he does what's in the best interest of the team's immediate and future success. If that means Weber is traded to cash in on his value this year, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that...
For next season it is absolutely in their hands, and that's my point. If Suter stays I don't see a problem with Weber staying. If Suter walks it would be pretty dumb to just go ahead and dump Weber's last year for anything short of a king's ransom, and I'm not just talking picks and prospects. There would need to at least be a second pairing defenseman coming back. There would need to be a young forward or two with NHL experience coming back. After that, fill the rest in with picks and prospects.
I would argue what best serves the long-term health of the team is remaining competitive while the growing fan base is solidified. Nashville has plenty of young players. There is no point in giving up Weber's last RFA year unless the team can stay as good as it is with him.
Bottom line for me is that we have no idea what either Suter or Weber are really thinking. Hopefully those guys have been 100% truthful to Poile, and Poile know what he's working with.
If Suter walks, and Weber wants to play for a contender - IMO now would be the time to strike while the iron is hot. The deal with the Flyers could be slightly modified (add Schenn, drop Voracek to add a potential #1 center, and add Mez and drop one of the 1st rounders for a replacement top 4 d-man). It's not the "best" move from Nashville's perspective - but they'd be making lemonade when given lemons. If they know that Weber isn't going to sign long term - they've got to move him know when his value is at it's peak.
That's all supposition based on Weber not signing long term. Obviously - that's all out the window if he's willing to sign LT, which would be the smart thing for the team to do. My only concerns is - why wouldn't that already have been done if Weber's willing to sign? It's not a matter of money, because Weber's going to make what he wants to, so there has to be something else involved.
trade Bob for draft picks
sign Carle, Jagr, Voracek, Holmstrom, Harry Z
trade Weber and Suter for JVR, Mez, 3 first round picks
I would like to keep Mez and deal Kimmo instead but probably very unlikely he waive his NMC
Pronger LTIR
Shelley Waive ( Pleaseeeee lol )
sign backup goalie
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jakub Voracek ($3.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($2.500m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.900m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($4.250m) / Shea Weber ($7.500m)
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Scott Clemmensen ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,846,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,158,056
Homer already said he wasn't going to trade for the rights of other players this year. Poile already stated that he will not move Suter's rights, and Parise would never get his rights dealt to the Flyers from the Devils.
sign carle Voracek Harry Z Holmstrom
sign Suter
Sign Weber to offer sheet give up 4 1st round picks
trade bob n kimmo for picks
sign backup goalie
Pronger LTIR
Shelley bye bye anyway
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.500m)
Matt Carle ($4.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Scott Clemmensen ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,263,611; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,741,389
sign carle Voracek Harry Z Holmstrom
sign Suter
Sign Weber to offer sheet give up 4 1st round picks
trade bob n kimmo for picks
sign backup goalie
Pronger LTIR
Shelley bye bye anyway
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.500m)
Matt Carle ($4.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Scott Clemmensen ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,263,611; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,741,389
Maybe confine this stuff to the Flyers board?
An offer sheet is highly, highly unlikely--as are several other elements of this plan (trade Kimmo?)
3 questions:
1. Would JVR, Read, MAB, 2 firsts for Weber work?
2. Would buying out Bryz be worth it?
3. If you could buyout Bryz, what's the value of the right's to RFA Ondrej Pavelec?
3 questions:
1. Would JVR, Read, MAB, 2 firsts for Weber work?
2. Would buying out Bryz be worth it?
3. If you could buyout Bryz, what's the value of the right's to RFA Ondrej Pavelec?
1. Probably not, but it isn't insulting as an opening offer.
2. Not unless Snider hates money, which seems unlikely.
3. Quite a bit--they don't have a suitable replacement.
3 questions:
1. Would JVR, Read, MAB, 2 firsts for Weber work?
2. Would buying out Bryz be worth it?
3. If you could buyout Bryz, what's the value of the right's to RFA Ondrej Pavelec?
1. Not even close IMO. 2 of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, and JVR have to be involved. Change MAB to Mez and Read to Schenn/Voracek, take out one of your firsts, and it looks alright (if we're trading Weber at all)
1. Not even close IMO. 2 of Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, and JVR have to be involved. Change MAB to Mez and Read to Schenn/Voracek, take out one of your firsts, and it looks alright (if we're trading Weber at all)
