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Clowe's Encounters of the Third Line (Off-Season Speculation Thread Part V)

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06-27-2012, 01:54 AM
  #901
Pinkfloyd
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Probably not the best way to make decisions...sometimes you have to move on.

Another benefit of trade deadline acquisitions; you get a great feel for whether or not they fit.
Sometimes you do and that might be the case with Moore but it's impossible to tell with what he went through. Winnik, on the other hand, is a fit and fills a need that they have. Keeping him should be one of the top priorities for DW at this point.

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06-27-2012, 01:55 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Probably not the best way to make decisions...sometimes you have to move on.

Another benefit of trade deadline acquisitions; you get a great feel for whether or not they fit.
I think he fits but he's far from a perfect fit (defense + offense). If DW goes for a shutdown third line, he fits. If DW goes for a scoring line, he's a 4th liner. Either way I don't think he's worth $2.5m but I don't think we can find a better deal.

PS: I think Moore is this year's White. I don't think they'll keep him.

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06-27-2012, 01:57 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
I think he fits but he's far from a perfect fit. If DW goes for a shutdown third line, he fits. If DW goes for a scoring line, he's a 4th liner. Either way I don't think he's worth $2.5m but I don't think we can find a better deal. He's good defensively.
I disagree with the scoring line angle. He is a puck possession player which fits for a scoring line on this team if you put a couple capable finishers with him.

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06-27-2012, 01:59 AM
  #904
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Considering that there were only two forwards with a worse +/- than him, that speaks to him being a part of the problem when he managed that number in significantly less games than those other forwards. And you're contradicting yourself when you say the Canes were bad but Poni doesn't need the extra help. It's pretty damn obvious that he does.

I disagree that they don't have a third line at all. They have Galiardi, Wingels, Sheppard, Desjardins, and Handzus that are either qualified or signed. They have a pretty good idea of where they're probably going with their bottom six.



Even if he says that and Winnik is signed, that's not going to happen. He is a third line player just by the minutes he plays and if you re-sign him, whether it's 1.5 or 2.5 mil, you're playing him third line minutes. And...it's Winnik, not Winnick.
The Canes best player was a minus twenty at the end of the season. Do you think Eric Staal is bad defensively? Plus minus aren't everything especially when evaluating individuals. Alexei really does play a good two way game. The Canes needed extra help in general.

At this point TJ, Desi, and Wingels are the Sharks fourth line. Sheppard hasn't played an NHL game in over two years and the org has no ideas at all how he will be at training camp. Do you actually want to see Handzus on the thrid line?

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06-27-2012, 02:05 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
The Canes best player was a minus twenty at the end of the season. Do you think Eric Staal is bad defensively? Plus minus aren't everything especially when evaluating individuals. Alexei really does play a good two way game. The Canes needed extra help in general.

At this point TJ, Desi, and Wingels are the Sharks fourth line. Sheppard hasn't played an NHL game in over two years and the org has no ideas at all how he will be at training camp. Do you actually want to see Handzus on the thrid line?
And Staal needed 33 more games and a crap ton more minutes against much tougher competition than Poni to do that. +/- isn't everything but when you relate to teammates, it's a useful tool in evaluating this type of stuff. Ponikarovsky has only shown that he is solid defensively when he's sheltered and/or supplemented by very good defensive teammates. He is not a solid defensive player on his own.

And based on how they've been played, Wingels will not be a fourth liner come next year. They wouldn't trade McGinn with the only certainty being the ability to retain Galiardi if they had intentions of keeping him on the 4th line. He will probably start there and the organization will hope and encourage him to get to the 3rd line.

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06-27-2012, 02:15 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
I think he fits but he's far from a perfect fit (defense + offense). If DW goes for a shutdown third line, he fits. If DW goes for a scoring line, he's a 4th liner. Either way I don't think he's worth $2.5m but I don't think we can find a better deal.

PS: I think Moore is this year's White. I don't think they'll keep him.
I thought White was this year's White....unless you mean that they will sign Moore for one more year and then let him go?

Winnik may seem like he is a good fit. But maybe he wants too much money/term, or maybe DW is concerned with his lack of finishing ability, etc. Just because he traded Mcginn for Winnik, does not mean he should settle for Winnik.

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06-27-2012, 03:02 AM
  #907
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Winnik is better suited for a bottom 6 role than Poni. Hes a better defensive player and is much better all around contributor. Poni since leaving T.O. hasn't produced and has been a bust.

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06-27-2012, 10:13 AM
  #908
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i thought winnik was starting to come out offensively for us. i think having his kind of player be a 20-30 pt guy on a scoring third line is vital.

i think with the people we are likely getting rid of + the contracts weve done.

wingels 750 desi 600. there is money there to maybe get him at 1.75-2 mill. hes in a harder position to demand 2.5 just because the limited production he put up, but weve seem flashes of it.

moore, im on the fence about. i see him as a dynamic player that maybe does something when you need him to, and he has the speed and defensive ability wed need. but who is our 3C going forward? is it desi, moore, zeus or some type of ufa/trade. can we get him to take a discount and play 4C and battle it out with zeus on the season?

unfortunately we have to wait for july 1. DW may have given an offer to these guys to take to FA, if they get better offers then its up to DW. but you never want to negotiate from a position of weakness as a player, and i cant blame them for holding out.

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06-27-2012, 10:17 AM
  #909
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looks like Doan is testing the market...unlike with Parise, I can see Doan coming to SJ. what do you guys think? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399323

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06-27-2012, 10:22 AM
  #910
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As it stands.... We have no 3rd line...

couture-thornton-pavelski
clowe-marleau-havlat
xxx-xxx-xxx
galiardi-desjardin-wingels

Doug Wilson better address this within the first couple of days of Free Agency

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06-27-2012, 10:43 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
As it stands.... We have no 3rd line...

couture-thornton-pavelski
clowe-marleau-havlat
xxx-xxx-xxx
galiardi-desjardin-wingels

Doug Wilson better address this within the first couple of days of Free Agency
I'm betting he's planning on Wingels being a 3rd liner this season.

Also he could seriously be considering Hertl getting an opportunity in camp for a role in the bottom 6, he said as much.

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06-27-2012, 10:51 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
As it stands.... We have no 3rd line...

couture-thornton-pavelski
clowe-marleau-havlat
xxx-xxx-xxx
galiardi-desjardin-wingels

Doug Wilson better address this within the first couple of days of Free Agency
We have Handzus centering either the 3rd or 4th line for now. Like it or not.

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06-27-2012, 10:55 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by WSS11 View Post
looks like Doan is testing the market...unlike with Parise, I can see Doan coming to SJ. what do you guys think? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399323
I could definitely see him coming here.

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06-27-2012, 11:00 AM
  #914
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I could definitely see him coming here.
I'd be ok signing Doan for a 2 year deal and around 4-4.5M AAV. But I think other teams will offer more.

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06-27-2012, 11:02 AM
  #915
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@fearthefin

Which Unqualified RFAs Should Interest San Jose? Link


Last edited by Fistfullofbeer: 06-27-2012 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Added Link
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06-27-2012, 11:24 AM
  #916
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I'd be ok signing Doan for a 2 year deal and around 4-4.5M AAV. But I think other teams will offer more.
My guess is Doan isn't concerned so much with money as much as not moving far away from where he is now. I expect him and Whitney to both sign in the Pacific division.

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06-27-2012, 11:33 AM
  #917
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@fearthefin

Which Unqualified RFAs Should Interest San Jose? Link
I wouldn't mind any of the forwards for a good price, but I wouldn't pay market value for any of them. Well, if the market decides they're worth the NHL minimum on a 2 way deal, then I would.

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06-27-2012, 11:47 AM
  #918
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@fearthefin

Which Unqualified RFAs Should Interest San Jose? Link
poor Cam Barker.

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06-27-2012, 11:47 AM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
As it stands.... We have no 3rd line...

couture-thornton-pavelski
clowe-marleau-havlat
xxx-xxx-xxx
galiardi-desjardin-wingels

Doug Wilson better address this within the first couple of days of Free Agency

Actually, we don't have a 4th line. Galiardi (or Winnik if he's re-signed), Desi, and Wingels would make up the 3rd line as of today.

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06-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #920
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Teams with a aggressive forecheck, like the Blues and Yotes, gave us a crap load of problems last year.

Do you guys think the addition of some speed in the top-6 will make a big difference on how these games would play out? I felt last year that TMac's lack of making adjustments was the main issue. We could blame our special teams problems on Shaw and Woodcraft and that may be fixed by the addition of another coach.

But I am still not sure if we can handle teams like the Blues/Yotes.

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06-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Teams with a aggressive forecheck, like the Blues and Yotes, gave us a crap load of problems last year.

Do you guys think the addition of some speed in the top-6 will make a big difference on how these games would play out? I felt last year that TMac's lack of making adjustments was the main issue. We could blame our special teams problems on Shaw and Woodcraft and that may be fixed by the addition of another coach.

But I am still not sure if we can handle teams like the Blues/Yotes.
In addition to this, I feel like another problem was our teams crappy penalty kill crept into the players heads. They had to be more tentative and reserved 5v5 because they were afraid of taking penalties.

I think if we fix our penalty kill we'll notice everyone on the team skating a lot faster, doing more hitting and playing with more reckless abandon.

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06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #922
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I honestly think at this point Doug Wilson see's the team like this. It feels like he expects Sheppard and Handzus to play. Maybe even thinking Mashinter might step it up too. Winnik should be back, but it seems like Doug will not overpay him.

Marleau - Thornton - Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
X - Sheppard - Wingels
X - Handzus - Desjardins

Galiardi
Mashinter

Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Boyle
Murray - Braun

Demers
Irwin

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06-27-2012, 12:29 PM
  #923
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Yeah, I'd personally like to see Mash on the 4th line.

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06-27-2012, 12:48 PM
  #924
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I'd like Jason Arnott

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06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
  #925
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@fearthefin

Which Unqualified RFAs Should Interest San Jose? Link
lol at the Cam Barker mention.

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