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Roster Talk '13 U.S.A.

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:40 PM
  #851
William H Bonney
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There's no defending Noesen's hit but the idea that the IIHF would make him miss the entire tournament over the supplemental discipline that is decided by another league is ridiculous, especially given how soft the IIHF has been on dirty play in their own tournament. It's going to a be real shame if the IIHF decides to make two American players miss back-to-back IIHF tournaments due to a made up rule and a stupid rule. Not that I expect the IIHF to rule in Noesen's favor but I hope they come to their senses here.

On the other hand, I really hope USAH isn't banking on the IIHF ruling in their favor, especially after the IIHF stonewalled their appeal of the Matteau situation earlier this year without actually having a statute or bylaw to do so. USAH already wasn't bringing enough forwards to the camp and now they could be down to 14 with only 1 going home. That doesn't provide enough flexibility or competition to give this team their best chance at success. I would really like to see them bring along Kerdiles (rumored but not confirmed which is worrisome given how late it is) and a natural right winger in Adam Erne, who is the only player we can bring along that can match Noesen's skill and size at his natural position. They have nothing to lose by bringing in some extra forwards and everything to gain - hopefully they realize it.

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Last edited by William H Bonney: 12-14-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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12-14-2012, 08:43 PM
  #852
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Kerdiles looks like a man against boys tonight, which e sort of is considering that although no team plays harder than Alabama, they are really bad. McCabe on the other hand seems to think tonight is a sideshow and that he can stick handle or pass right through the entire Chargers team.

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12-14-2012, 08:46 PM
  #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
There's no defending Noesen's hit but the idea that the IIHF would make him miss the entire tournament over the supplemental discipline that is decided by another league is ridiculous, especially given how soft the IIHF has been on dirty play in their own tournament. It's going to a be real shame if the IIHF decides to make two American players miss back-to-back IIHF tournaments due to a made up rule and a stupid rule. Not that I expect the IIHF to rule in Noesen's favor but I hope they come to their senses here.

On the other hand, I really hope USAH isn't banking on the IIHF ruling in their favor, especially after the IIHF stonewalled their appeal of the Matteau situation earlier this year without actually having a statute or bylaw to do so. USAH already wasn't bringing enough forwards to the camp and now they could be down to 14 with only 1 going home. That doesn't provide enough flexibility or competition to give this team their best chance at success. I would really like to see them bring along Kerdiles (rumored but not confirmed which is worrisome given how late it is) and a natural right winger in Adam Erne, who is the only player we can bring along that can make Noesen's skill and size at their natural position. They have nothing to lose by bringing in some extra forwards and everything to gain - hopefully they realize it.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything you just said, I wouldn't mind seeing Erne given an invite, especially under these circumstances.

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12-14-2012, 08:53 PM
  #854
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Kerdiles just got booted for checking from behind.

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12-14-2012, 08:58 PM
  #855
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I caught then 3rd period and OT of Miami's game. Kuraly didn't do much but the announcers had mentioned he had some good chances earlier in the game. Barber was the best player on the ice when I watched and set up their game tying goal with some nice patience on the PP.

Grimaldi had a goal tonight in UND's route of Michigan Tech. Pietila had Tech's lone goal, his 10th of the year. If he can chip in some goals from the 4th line that will be huge.

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12-14-2012, 09:14 PM
  #856
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Hey guys Galchenyuk scored 2G and 1A against the Guelph storm tonight, I uploaded a video of the goals in the Habs board and I thought it may be appropriate here as well.

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12-14-2012, 09:18 PM
  #857
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How in the world can Noesen be suspended for the tournament and Huberdeau be good to go. I am sorry IIHF but abuse of an official is pretty bad especially when the guy winds up hurt. That four games makes a lot of sense now, huh QMJHL.... This is terrible and complete hypocrisy.

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12-14-2012, 09:26 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Kerdiles just got booted for checking from behind.
How bad?

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12-14-2012, 10:16 PM
  #859
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The Hockey News predicts a bronze for the U.S. at the WJR's. Their breakdown...

1) Canada
2) Russia
3) US
4) Finland
5) Sweden

If you swap Russia and Finland you have my final 5. The U.S. will want to make up for last year. I expect them to overachieve.

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12-14-2012, 10:22 PM
  #860
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Only 1 point tonight, but Grimaldi played great. The kid is a buzzsaw. Can't wait to see him on big ice.

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12-14-2012, 10:23 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
How bad?
The Alabama guy got up and was completely fine. I couldn't really see that incident with my angle and it wasn't replayed on the scoreboard.

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12-14-2012, 10:23 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
The Hockey News predicts a bronze for the U.S. at the WJR's. Their breakdown...

1) Canada
2) Russia
3) US
4) Finland
5) Sweden

If you swap Russia and Finland you have my final 5. The U.S. will want to make up for last year. I expect them to overachieve.
The only problem is that it would be a bit tough to actually see this happen with them all in the same group.

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12-14-2012, 11:10 PM
  #863
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I'm gonna say US v. Canada for the gold, with Canada edging us out 4-3.

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12-14-2012, 11:31 PM
  #864
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How in the world can Noesen be suspended for the tournament and Huberdeau be good to go. I am sorry IIHF but abuse of an official is pretty bad especially when the guy winds up hurt. That four games makes a lot of sense now, huh QMJHL.... This is terrible and complete hypocrisy.
Not really. The only hypocrisy would be IIHF allowing Noesen to play. Too bad he probably won't get that chance, but rules are rules, and they are the same for everyone.

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12-14-2012, 11:33 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
How in the world can Noesen be suspended for the tournament and Huberdeau be good to go. I am sorry IIHF but abuse of an official is pretty bad especially when the guy winds up hurt. That four games makes a lot of sense now, huh QMJHL.... This is terrible and complete hypocrisy.
If he does not get to play, does the OHL count the WJC games missed towards his suspension. If not Noesen actually gets punished 2x.. all his OHL Games and all WJC and exhibition games.

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12-14-2012, 11:53 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Not really. The only hypocrisy would be IIHF allowing Noesen to play. Too bad he probably won't get that chance, but rules are rules, and they are the same for everyone.
No, they are not, unless we can assume his hit would have resulted in at least a 10 game suspension regardless of what league he played in, which most certainly is not the case. The WJC games mean more than a regular season OHL game and thus 1 regular OHL game should not equate to 1 WJC game. More so, in a long 68 game OHL season, a 10 game suspension is about equal to a 5 game suspension in a 34 game NCAA season. If he was in the NCAA and thus received the latter suspension, it would mean Noesen would sit out enough games pre-tournament to be eligible. Tell me, how is that fair to all eligible players?

All the various leagues have different rules, different suspension standards, different league disciplinarians, and different season lengths which help determine suspension lengths. It's asinine that the IIHF takes league suspensions into consideration outside of egregrious McSorley, Bertuzzi like incidents.


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Old
12-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #867
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Can't defend that Noesen hit, but not at all happy with the ruling. Big blow to our already average offense.

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12-15-2012, 12:02 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
No, they are not, unless we can assume his hit would have resulted in at least a 10 game suspension regardless of what league he played in, which most certainly is not the case. The WJC games mean more than a regular season OHL game and thus 1 regular OHL game should not equate to 1 WJC game. More so, in a long 68 game OHL season, a 10 game suspension is about equal to a 5 game suspension in a 34 game NCAA. The latter suspension would mean Noesen would sit out enough games pre-tournament to be eligible. Tell me, how is that fair to all eligible players?
It's fair, since the rules are known in advance. You may argue their position on these suspensions, but as long as that rule is in the book, it's hell of a lot fairer to have him not play than bend the rules so that he can participate. And the latter NCAA suspension would not mean Noesen would sit out enough games to be eligible, because if there are 34, and not 68 games played in a season, then their frequency is also lower, no?

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12-15-2012, 12:13 AM
  #869
William H Bonney
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It's fair, since the rules are known in advance. You may argue their position on these suspensions, but as long as that rule is in the book, it's hell of a lot fairer to have him not play than bend the rules so that he can participate. And the latter NCAA suspension would not mean Noesen would sit out enough games to be eligible, because if there are 34, and not 68 games played in a season, then their frequency is also lower, no?
The fact that another league can decide whether a player is eligible for an IIHF tournament is not fair. Do you think if Yakupov threw that hit in the KHL they would suspend him at all, let alone enough to miss the entire WJC? You can use that example for all leagues and nationalities. When your rule is just the implementation of the varied rules and rulings of many other leagues, there's an obvious disconnect and is thus inherently unequal.

Depends on the NCAA team schedule + WJC exhibition games. He would most definitely be eligible early in tournament. But it's not likely he would have received as harsh a suspension in most other leagues.

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12-15-2012, 12:31 AM
  #870
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The fact that another league can decide whether a player is eligible for an IIHF tournament is not fair. Do you think if Yakupov threw that hit in the KHL they would suspend him at all, let alone enough to miss the entire WJC? You can use that example for all leagues and nationalities. When your rule is just the implementation of the varied rules and rulings of many other leagues, there's an obvious disconnect and is thus inherently unequal.
Unequal doesn't mean unfair. There is no way you can make it the same across the leagues, because there are just too many factors involved. I mean, you live in the US. Do you protest your local laws and the laws of the state every day? Because it's the same situation. The federal states are given wiggle room to operate within the scope of the constitution and other federal laws, but other than that they're free to do what they want. It's called devolution of power, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's how you actually make an organization function and not have it become overburdened with having to decide on every single petty thing. Same with the IIHF. I think it's absolutely fantastic they treat the leagues as equals and acknowledge them as being able to determine for themselves what a certain act should entail in terms of punishment. It's not like he was suspended for the whole season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Depends on the NCAA team schedule + WJC exhibition games. He would most definitely be eligible early in tournament. But it's not likely he would have received as harsh a suspension in most other leagues.
Yeah, alright, let's not "assume" now. Facts are facts and the 10-game suspension is all we have to go from. Like I mentioned above, the treatment in other leagues doesn't make this unfair.

But if you're trying to argue that the IIHF shouldn't recognize any league suspensions, then that's a valid point and I might be inclined to agree with you

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12-15-2012, 02:33 AM
  #871
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Unequal doesn't mean unfair. There is no way you can make it the same across the leagues, because there are just too many factors involved. I mean, you live in the US. Do you protest your local laws and the laws of the state every day? Because it's the same situation. The federal states are given wiggle room to operate within the scope of the constitution and other federal laws, but other than that they're free to do what they want. It's called devolution of power, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's how you actually make an organization function and not have it become overburdened with having to decide on every single petty thing. Same with the IIHF. I think it's absolutely fantastic they treat the leagues as equals and acknowledge them as being able to determine for themselves what a certain act should entail in terms of punishment. It's not like he was suspended for the whole season.

Yeah, alright, let's not "assume" now. Facts are facts and the 10-game suspension is all we have to go from. Like I mentioned above, the treatment in other leagues doesn't make this unfair.

But if you're trying to argue that the IIHF shouldn't recognize any league suspensions, then that's a valid point and I might be inclined to agree with you
I don't have a problem with the OHL's suspension - just the fact that the IIHF is enforcing it. I disagree on your point of fairness though but that's not the major issue. Because the point you finished on is my point - the IIHF shouldn't be enforcing any of these suspensions. Let these kids play and if they break the IIHF rules in the tournament, then take action. But if not, let their respective leagues handle their punishment. I'd much rather see the OHL make the call, just as they did with the suspension, and decide whether the Plymouth games he misses due to the WJC should count as part of his suspension served or not. And then let the player and his team make a decision on whether the player participates in the WJC if the league chooses the harsher punishment.

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12-15-2012, 03:33 AM
  #872
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Not really. The only hypocrisy would be IIHF allowing Noesen to play. Too bad he probably won't get that chance, but rules are rules, and they are the same for everyone.
No, with the IIHF rules are not rules because they often aren't written down and instead are enforced or made up whenever needed.

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12-15-2012, 04:06 AM
  #873
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This opens a spot on the top 6, any chance Boucher is the replacement in camp?

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12-15-2012, 07:06 AM
  #874
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If he does not get to play, does the OHL count the WJC games missed towards his suspension. If not Noesen actually gets punished 2x.. all his OHL Games and all WJC and exhibition games.
This is the real question. Since the US won't roster him if the suspension is upheld then he's technically not a part of the tournament. Noesen was expected to make the team but at this point he's still competing to make the team since the camp hasn't started. Will the OHL operate on the assumption that he made the team and count those games he would have played or will they say he wasn't a member of the team and hold him out of the full 10 league games?

Imagine if this whole scenario were playing out with a star NHL'er right before an Olympic tournament. Fans of both the NHL and the national team would be going insane.

The IIHF can enforce thier rules as written but this is a rule I flat out disagree with and I'd feel the same regardless of which player or nation was effected.

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12-15-2012, 07:13 AM
  #875
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the Noesen ruling could in general be a bad thing for hockey in general. In theory, If I were a player with a chance to play for my country at world juniors, why would I play hard, finish my checks or put myself in a situation where a wrong turn could get me suspended. Especially if I was a high profile foreign player playing in a Canadian league. It does't smell right how the Huberdeau incident was punished in comparison.

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