HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Draft

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-28-2004, 03:19 PM
  #1
Staal Me Up
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 185
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Staal Me Up
Draft

whats the deal this year if we have no season

Staal Me Up is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 03:57 PM
  #2
Chief
Registered User
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NY, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,825
vCash: 500
NO CBA...no draft...

Chief is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 09:36 PM
  #3
Broadway Brett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Florida, but born in
Country: United States
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
What happens to the pick we got from the Maple Leafs? The second rounder? Would we get a second rounder from them the next time a draft is held? Or would it be wiped away like it never happened? I'm assuming it would carry-over, but I don't know.

Broadway Brett is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 09:46 PM
  #4
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadway Crosby
What happens to the pick we got from the Maple Leafs? The second rounder? Would we get a second rounder from them the next time a draft is held? Or would it be wiped away like it never happened? I'm assuming it would carry-over, but I don't know.
the leafs owe us that pick one way or the other, otherwise the trade that was agreed upon isn't finalized...i don't know specifically how it would be handled but they can't just forget about the rest of the trade.

NYR469 is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 11:19 PM
  #5
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,616
vCash: 500
The draft is covered under the CBA as Chief has pointed out. If the season is lost and an agreement is not reached by the draft day, i wouldnt be shocked to see the draft age pushed back to 19. The league wanted it pushed back to 20 in 95, but they gave in. It would make sense, it would give scouts and teams an extra year to look at players, could cut down on the busts. Won't cut them out completely, but could cut down a few. If they did this, I assume all traded picks would be pushed back a year. So a 2005 traded pick would get bounced to 2006 and a 2006 to 2007 and so on.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 07:38 AM
  #6
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadway Crosby
What happens to the pick we got from the Maple Leafs? The second rounder? Would we get a second rounder from them the next time a draft is held? Or would it be wiped away like it never happened? I'm assuming it would carry-over, but I don't know.
Don't forget about the Flyers second round pick in 2005

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 10:24 AM
  #7
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Well no matter what happens we will have there 2nd round pick in the next draft, whenever that happens and whoever it includes. There is a possibility that the league could just throw this junes draft and next junes draft into one super draft, but I doubt that will happen as the value of picks would be swayed.

nyr7andcounting is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 10:46 AM
  #8
Broadway Brett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Florida, but born in
Country: United States
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
the leafs owe us that pick one way or the other, otherwise the trade that was agreed upon isn't finalized...i don't know specifically how it would be handled but they can't just forget about the rest of the trade.
I thought that we would get the pick in the next draft, but I was just checking.

Broadway Brett is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 10:56 AM
  #9
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Well no matter what happens we will have there 2nd round pick in the next draft, whenever that happens and whoever it includes. There is a possibility that the league could just throw this junes draft and next junes draft into one super draft, but I doubt that will happen as the value of picks would be swayed.
I think someone from Central Scouting already dismissed that idea. They said that they would do them separately and possibly close to one another if thats how the holdout ends.

Anthony Mauro is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 11:05 AM
  #10
AG9NK35DT8*
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bronx/Queens, NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,822
vCash: 500
What picks beside NYR's own do they have?

What picks do the NYR's have this year besides there own?Thats all i want to know.

Thanks
AG9

AG9NK35DT8* is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 11:53 AM
  #11
Graveytrain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 204
vCash: 500
We have Toronto's 2nd rounder, also Philly's 2nd rounder from the Malakhov deal

Graveytrain is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 12:30 PM
  #12
ATLANTARANGER*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, B&R in NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,649
vCash: 500
If there is no draft I can just see one of the draft eligible players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithp
whats the deal this year if we have no season
filing a lawsuit saying that he is being denied the right to earn a living. These youngsters are not apart of any collective bargaining agreement and with the absence of one I could possibly see someone filing a suit. I think they would have a strong argument, but on the other hand, with the strike who would they be playing for and to what benefit? Just a thought.

ATLANTARANGER* is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 12:40 PM
  #13
Diaboli
Registered User
 
Diaboli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: City once voted as F
Posts: 1,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
filing a lawsuit saying that he is being denied the right to earn a living. These youngsters are not apart of any collective bargaining agreement and with the absence of one I could possibly see someone filing a suit. I think they would have a strong argument, but on the other hand, with the strike who would they be playing for and to what benefit? Just a thought.
Who would this kid then actually sue?

Diaboli is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 01:12 PM
  #14
NYRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
He can't sue. Thats just silly.

Thats like the McDonalds corporation closing all together and a kid who wanted to work there when he turned 14 (legal working age) tries to sue them because he can't make money off them.

Yeah right.

NYRangers is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 02:30 PM
  #15
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,616
vCash: 500
How is he going to sue? Does he have a RIGHT to play in the NHL? He can get a job if he wants, noone is saying otherwise. If he sued, the courts would throw it out in a second. The NHLPA acts as the Barganining Unit for the players in certain regards and the draft is covered by the agreement between the NHLPA and the NHL.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 02:37 PM
  #16
ATLANTARANGER*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, B&R in NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,649
vCash: 500
You forget one thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg
How is he going to sue? Does he have a RIGHT to play in the NHL? He can get a job if he wants, noone is saying otherwise. If he sued, the courts would throw it out in a second. The NHLPA acts as the Barganining Unit for the players in certain regards and the draft is covered by the agreement between the NHLPA and the NHL.
None of the draft eligible players belong to the NHLPA! In America you have the right to not belong to a union! Saying that a undrafted player must adhere to the CBA is a denial of his freedom of choice.
I am not saying that it is going to happen, only that I see the opening for such a situation to occur. He would sue the NHL and possibly the NHLPA, though I think the NHL would be the primary target.

ATLANTARANGER* is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 02:59 PM
  #17
NYRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
This is not a strike. This is a lockout. So if he doesnt listen to the union he still has no NHl to play in.

NYRangers is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 03:42 PM
  #18
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
someone WILL sue to become a free agent you can bet on that...it probably won't be a top guy like crosby but of the 290 draft eligible guys someone is gonna do it...

and they won't argue that they can't make a living, rather they will argue that they were supposed to be drafted in june, the nhl refuses to hold a draft therefore they should be considered free agents since it isn't there fault there isn't a draft...

NYR469 is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 03:46 PM
  #19
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers
He can't sue. Thats just silly.

Thats like the McDonalds corporation closing all together and a kid who wanted to work there when he turned 14 (legal working age) tries to sue them because he can't make money off them.

Yeah right.
that would not be the same, if mcdonalds won't hire you there is a wendys, burger king, kfc, white castle, etc all within 1 mile that are willing to hire the kid for the same $$...

where is the other nhl for players to go to?? there are lesser leagues where they would make significantly less $$ but there is no equivalent.

you are comparing apples and oranges...people always try to draw comparisions between pro sports and real jobs but they have nothing to do with each other. in todays pro sports world, pro sports and the real world have nothing to do with each other and can't be used as comparisions.

NYR469 is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 04:12 PM
  #20
NYRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
that would not be the same, if mcdonalds won't hire you there is a wendys, burger king, kfc, white castle, etc all within 1 mile that are willing to hire the kid for the same $$...

where is the other nhl for players to go to?? there are lesser leagues where they would make significantly less $$ but there is no equivalent.

you are comparing apples and oranges...people always try to draw comparisions between pro sports and real jobs but they have nothing to do with each other. in todays pro sports world, pro sports and the real world have nothing to do with each other and can't be used as comparisions.
There is the SEL, Russian Elite League, etc. (the Wendys, BK)

It is just like the workforce. You can land a good job with a big company (NHL) or you might have to settle for a low company (Europe). Your doing the same work, its just not for the biggest company.

You cannot sue because there not employing you. Thats crap. Then Ill sue the NHL for not letting me play and make a living, I play roller hockey and was planning to enter the draft.

NYRangers is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 04:23 PM
  #21
Kodiak
Registered User
 
Kodiak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ranger fan in Philly
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Kodiak Send a message via AIM to Kodiak Send a message via Yahoo to Kodiak
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
someone WILL sue to become a free agent you can bet on that...it probably won't be a top guy like crosby but of the 290 draft eligible guys someone is gonna do it...

and they won't argue that they can't make a living, rather they will argue that they were supposed to be drafted in june, the nhl refuses to hold a draft therefore they should be considered free agents since it isn't there fault there isn't a draft...
But they would be technically free agents. They would be free to sign with any league that would have them. They could sign in Europe, or they could sign an AHL deal, but that's it. Under the lockout, the rosters are locked. No team can sign anyone until there is a new CBA, and once there is a new CBA, there will be a new set of rules regarding the draft, and the undrafted players will have to abide by those rules if they want to enter the NHL.

Besides, under the current CBA, a player that goes undrafted at 18 is not a free agent. I believe the player have to be over 20 and undrafted to be a free agent (at least for North American players). So even if they argue that they should have been drafted in June, the NHL would argue that under the old CBA, they still would have draft eligibility.

The more interesting situation will be what happens to the unsigned 2003 draft picks from Juniors. Under the old CBA, if they weren't signed by a deadline, they could re-enter the draft in 2005. If they not drafted after that, they were free agents due to their age. So what happens to Jeff Carter, for example? He currently does not have a contract and cannot be signed until the lockout is over. If the entire season is lost, he'll be too old to re-enter the draft by the time the NHL starts up again.

Kodiak is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 06:11 PM
  #22
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
In America you have the right to not belong to a union!
That is not true, it varies state-to-state. If the state is a "Union Shop" state, you can be required to join the union if your colleagues are members of a union. In a "Right to Work" state you have the right to opt out of the union.

Someone will sue and someone will lose. CBA applies to Future employees. Otherwise you would have seen someone who was drafted in 1997 sue to become a free agent after their first contract expiring claiming he was not part of the union when the free agent rules and former CBA were agreed upon.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 08:18 AM
  #23
Potted Plant
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 858
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Potted Plant
I don't know exactly what the law is, but I'm fairly close to being an attorney, so I have some insight into this. My guess is that it would be an "anti-trust" suit. Meaning, the player would accuse the owners of colluding to prevent people from entering into the labor force. One of the rules of business is that competitors cannot collude for mutual benefit at the expense of others.

I don't know exactly how it works, but a collective bargaining agreement bypasses some of those rules (basically if both labor and management agree, it's ok). If there is no collective bargaining agreement, and the games play anyway, I don't think the owners could keep ANYONE out on the basis of age except to avoid violating child labor laws.

Without a collective bargaining agreement, I think a draft is actually illegal.

Potted Plant is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 09:13 AM
  #24
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
The more interesting situation will be what happens to the unsigned 2003 draft picks from Juniors. Under the old CBA, if they weren't signed by a deadline, they could re-enter the draft in 2005. If they not drafted after that, they were free agents due to their age. So what happens to Jeff Carter, for example? He currently does not have a contract and cannot be signed until the lockout is over. If the entire season is lost, he'll be too old to re-enter the draft by the time the NHL starts up again.
That is an interesting scenario. One would think that the league would grandfather that single draft class so that members of it could re-enter the draft regardless of normal age restrictions.

dedalus is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 09:19 AM
  #25
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,288
vCash: 500
Hasnīt there been legal restrictions against moving the draft age from 18 to 19 or 20?

If not it would do allot of good for the competetive balance of the league...

Ola is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.