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Sharks sign Brad Stuart (3 years, $3.6 per)

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Old
06-18-2012, 06:00 PM
  #126
Ninja Hertl
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Originally Posted by Danish Pastry View Post
you guys are insane... im happy to have stu back...
I'd say the majority of the board is fine with the signing, but the vocal, hyperbolic minority make it seem like everyone is outraged.


Last edited by slocal: 06-18-2012 at 06:08 PM. Reason: don't get personal
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06-18-2012, 06:04 PM
  #127
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
I'd say the majority of the board is fine with the signing, but the vocal, hyperbolic minority make it seem like everyone is outraged.
The same with Parise, Suter pipe dreams.


Last edited by slocal: 06-18-2012 at 06:08 PM. Reason: edited quote
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06-18-2012, 06:05 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
The same with Parise, Suter pipe dreams.
I've avoided the speculation thread for many reasons

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06-18-2012, 06:05 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
Those berating the deal as we had 'no competition for him' are taking naivity to a whole new level.

The guy is, what 32? If you were told "Hey Junior, you can play for your current team for 3 more years and earn several million more and come home after that, or you can come home now... 3 years early and give up several million", what would you choose?

He could have easily re-signed in Detroit. Why on earth should he be taking a discount? There's not one of you that would give up $2/3m for staying on the road for a few more years. Being close to home is kind of redundant as a professional hockey player anyway given how much time he's away from 'home'.

We drafted him. We traded him. He owes us nothing - this home town discount thing is an overblown simplification that fans use to complain about GMs.
I don't think you have kids.

I absolutely would. There is literally no amount of money you could pay me to be away from my Son for 8 months of the year. It would be one thing if I was wallowing in poverty and its what I had to do to provide for my family, but making even what I make now (let alone millions a year), hell no.

I think Stuart would have signed for $3.25 if DW had played hardball with him. I'm fine with the 3.6m if there is no NMC, but I HIGHLY doubt that is the case.

Also, Stuart is declining, so I don't know why people think his value is increasing.

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06-18-2012, 06:06 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
Man, with your heightened financial acumen and knowledge of NHL player contract negotiation, you should totally be an NHL GM by now!
i could very easily lead this team to zero finals appearances just as well as DW. i'd imagine you would probably mismanage this team to cbj level of incompetence though .

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06-18-2012, 06:08 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
The same with Parise, Suter pipe dreams.
People are bored. Honestly I'm betting most people will be happy no Nash and a couple of tweeners and re-signings. Unless something amazing and inexpensive comes along DW shouldn't trade away assets. Yeah he should pursue Parise and Suter, but any GM should be if they care about their team.

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06-18-2012, 06:08 PM
  #132
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I was hoping for $3 mil, $3.25 at the most but $3.6 isn't THAT bad. I predict he'll get around 20 points and he's pretty solid defensively, big and physical and is a veteran and a leader. Anything more than $3.6 is a bad overpayment, hopefully there's not a NMC.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?1634

Would you guys agree with what it says about his assets and flaws? I think I do.

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06-18-2012, 06:08 PM
  #133
Ninja Hertl
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
i could very easily lead this team to zero finals appearances just as well as DW. i'd imagine you would probably mismanage this team to cbj level of incompetence though .
How do you figure? I rarely (actually, never) post capgeek rosters or weigh in on what DW "should" do. Also, I never really suggest what type of moves DW should make because I probably know a lot less then he and his staff does. I just watch the games. Like you. What's your point?

Also, there are quite a few teams with zero finals appearances (and a lot less playoff appearances) during DW's tenure... pick a better metric.

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06-18-2012, 06:10 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
I'd say the majority of the board is fine with the signing, but the vocal, hyperbolic minority make it seem like everyone is outraged.
Seriously people said the same stuff when we re-signed Huskins and even Wallin. Not that Stuart is in there class, but he's also paid twice as much.

I like having Stuart on the team, but these little overpayments for mediocre players add up to no cups.

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06-18-2012, 06:12 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Seriously people said the same stuff when we re-signed Huskins and even Wallin. Not that Stuart is in there class, but he's also paid twice as much.

I like having Stuart on the team, but these little overpayments for mediocre players add up to no cups.
It's only an overpayment according to about 3 posters on this board - notice how most of the red wings fans say they would have gladly taken him at 4.

This whole hometown discount thing is overblown folks. Professional sports players (with agents) don't just bend over just because they expressed a desire to play near home. Jesus.

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06-18-2012, 06:14 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Seriously people said the same stuff when we re-signed Huskins and even Wallin. Not that Stuart is in there class, but he's also paid twice as much.
and we were RIGHT about those two signings. 100% right on how bad those signings were and how our defense was not good enough thanks to signings like that. and they led to more seasons of no cups. the vocal minority as whathisface liked to call it are people who care so much about this team that our pathetic zero finals appearance record is incredibly annoying.

i get it that fans like him are okay with our consistent 'lets make the playoffs everyone' mentality and don't care if we win the cup or not. but for the rest of us who demand at least one cup in our natural lifetimes, little things like this add up. DW simply doesn't have a track record of even making the finals to make us shut up when he does something wonky.

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06-18-2012, 06:15 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
It's only an overpayment according to about 3 posters on this board - notice how most of the red wings fans say they would have gladly taken him at 4.

This whole hometown discount thing is overblown folks. Professional sports players (with agents) don't just bend over just because they expressed a desire to play near home. Jesus.
Except they do, regularly. Even on this team (Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski...). Hell Burns took a pretty deep discount and he just moved here. Burns deal is going to be considered one of the best contracts in the NHL in a year or two is my bet.

And ridiculing people for doing exactly what this board is intended for (armchair gm'ing) is pretty condescending. I'd rather be considered silly thanks.

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06-18-2012, 06:20 PM
  #138
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Also, just a clarity point. I am nowhere near as upset about Stuart as I was about Wallin. The single worst part about Wallin (or Handzus, or Huskins to a degree) is the roster spot they took up. The caphit hurt, certainly, but these were guys that did not belong on the team wasting a spot that could have been better used by a quality player (at a cheaper price).

That is not the case with Stuart. He's a great middle pairing guy and exactly who I would want to pair with someone like Boyle. That's not an issue. I'm annoyed at the overpayment, but its not a huge overpayment, and at least he's a quality player.

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06-18-2012, 06:21 PM
  #139
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Only 100k above what I was expecting it to top out at. I'm okay with that.

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06-18-2012, 06:21 PM
  #140
Ninja Hertl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Except they do, regularly. Even on this team (Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski...). Hell Burns took a pretty deep discount and he just moved here. Burns deal is going to be considered one of the best contracts in the NHL in a year or two is my bet.

And ridiculing people for doing exactly what this board is intended for (armchair gm'ing) is pretty condescending. I'd rather be considered silly thanks.
This board is 'intended' for prospect discussion, oddly enough. "hockey's future"...

I'm all for armchair GMing but calling a GM an idiot makes you look, well, "silly", as you put it.

There are far, far more idiotic things that could (and have) been done.

IIRC you went full gong-show about the Heatley trade, and the Winchester signing - and both didn't turn out to be as terrible as you thought. The Colin White signing was applauded by a lot of people here - look how that turned out. Let's reserve the pitchforks until we see just how mediocre Brad Stuart is, deal?

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06-18-2012, 06:26 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
This board is 'intended' for prospect discussion, oddly enough. "hockey's future"...

I'm all for armchair GMing but calling a GM an idiot makes you look, well, "silly", as you put it.

There are far, far more idiotic things that could (and have) been done.

IIRC you went full gong-show about the Heatley trade, and the Winchester signing - and both didn't turn out to be as terrible as you thought. The Colin White signing was applauded by a lot of people here - look how that turned out. Let's reserve the pitchforks until we see just how mediocre Brad Stuart is, deal?
That is totally incorrect. While I didn't want Heatley, I was fine with it in order to get rid of Cheechoo's contract. I've said that from the start (when I predicted the trade weeks before anyone else) and stick by it today. Even though I wasn't a fan of him on this team, I would still do the deal again today because we were even worse off with Cheechoo stuck on this team. We got a quality player in return for an injury prone player and a useless overpaid player, that's tough to complain about.

I wasn't a fan of Winchester either, but first off that didnt turn out well either (he was scratched for most of the end of the season) and my argument there wasn't his price, but the fact that we don't need a fighter that sucks at fighting and is not a good hockey player. He turned out a bit better then expected, but in hindsight I still wouldn't have signed him.

I was in favor of the Colin White deal at the price. It was a steal, and in hindsight I still agree. The issue was Todd overplaying him, not the player or the contract.

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06-18-2012, 06:26 PM
  #142
Ninja Hertl
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
and we were RIGHT about those two signings. 100% right on how bad those signings were and how our defense was not good enough thanks to signings like that. and they led to more seasons of no cups. the vocal minority as whathisface liked to call it are people who care so much about this team that our pathetic zero finals appearance record is incredibly annoying.

i get it that fans like him are okay with our consistent 'lets make the playoffs everyone' mentality and don't care if we win the cup or not. but for the rest of us who demand at least one cup in our natural lifetimes, little things like this add up. DW simply doesn't have a track record of even making the finals to make us shut up when he does something wonky.
I feel the same way about zero finals appearances... but there are a lot of teams that do it much worse. I guess I'm a glass-half-full type of person?

With the way parity and officiating is these days, getting to the finals is a roll of the dice anyways. I mean, if the refs hadn't decided to ignore clutch-and-grab due to the concussion scare, I'd wager the sharks would have had a much better second half. Not anyone's fault but a significant change.

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06-18-2012, 06:27 PM
  #143
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You can discuss anything related to the Sharks, but you cannot start insulting other members because they don't agree with you.

This is the only warning I will give in this thread before points start being handed out.

We're all better than that.

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06-18-2012, 06:28 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
That is totally incorrect. While I didn't want Heatley, I was fine with it in order to get rid of Cheechoo's contract. I've said that from the start (when I predicted the trade weeks before anyone else) and stick by it today. Even though I wasn't a fan of him on this team, I would still do the deal again today because we were even worse off with Cheechoo stuck on this team. We got a quality player in return for an injury prone player and a useless overpaid player, that's tough to complain about.

I wasn't a fan of Winchester either, but first off that didnt turn out well either (he was scratched for most of the end of the season) and my argument there wasn't his price, but the fact that we don't need a fighter that sucks at fighting and is not a good hockey player. He turned out a bit better then expected, but in hindsight I still wouldn't have signed him.

I was in favor of the Colin White deal at the price. It was a steal, and in hindsight I still agree. The issue was Todd overplaying him, not the player or the contract.
If I had the time or energy to use the search function...

I'll be getting back to life now. Interesting discussion folks.

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06-18-2012, 06:30 PM
  #145
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LOL at all the posters who are mad a DW for not screwing Stuart over because he said he wanted to play here. Don't you want players to want to play here?

DW does. That's why he signed Stuart to a fair deal with a slight home town discount. The same thing he did with Thornton and the same thing he did with Marleau. Yep, he could have squeezed all of them hard, but instead chose a win-win type of negotiaton.

Would Stuart have let it be known that he wanted to play here if DW had a rep as a hard core win-lose type negotiator? I don't think so. I wouldn't in his position. Would you?

I think this is another sign that DWs goal of making this a place where players want to play is working. Last year I think every UFA stated that they wanted to stay a Shark. He was able to let Marleau finish the final year of his contract and still sign him before he hit UFA. He was able to trade a ton a assets for Burns with only one year left and his contract and got him signed quickly.

I'm fine with the contract and I think it's a great thing that we had a UFA top 10 skater choose us as his #1 destination.

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06-18-2012, 06:34 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by sharkohol View Post
I feel the same way about zero finals appearances... but there are a lot of teams that do it much worse. I guess I'm a glass-half-full type of person?

With the way parity and officiating is these days, getting to the finals is a roll of the dice anyways. I mean, if the refs hadn't decided to ignore clutch-and-grab due to the concussion scare, I'd wager the sharks would have had a much better second half. Not anyone's fault but a significant change.
I can agree with all that. I really try to be a realist. Maybe calling DW an 'idiot' was a bit strong, but it's more a culmination of stupid mistakes than just this one small one. Remember, I am 80% in the camp that our failures this season were coaching and system related, and 20% personnel related.

Doug Wilson put together far too slow of a team. He exasperated the situation by signing guys like Wallin and Handzus, and only finally started correcting that mistake with Havlat far too late.

Doug Wilson signed Todd McLellan whom I feel is an average coach who has hidden behind a very strong roster but whom does not posses the necessary knowledge to take this team to a cup. I've backed that up with stats that took me hours to compile.

You may not share my opinion, but don't go insulting me for having it. I've put a lot of time and thought into it.

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06-18-2012, 06:34 PM
  #147
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^ Good post. I agree. The reason DW has a knack for overpaying again goes back to what I mentioned earlier in that he's a player's GM, and wants to create a culture where players envy being a part of this franchise.

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06-18-2012, 06:35 PM
  #148
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I wasn't a fan of Winchester either, but first off that didnt turn out well either (he was scratched for most of the end of the season)
He was really injured by the end of the season, so that explains why he was scratched for the majority of the end of the season.

As for the actual signing, it's not too bad. I expected 3.5 so 100k more isn't that bad. I hoped for less though considering he wanted to come here and DW traded for his rights.
On the otherhand, it's hard to know if this is a good/average/bad deal at the moment. Cap-hit is only relevant when we use it as a percentage of the salary cap. With the cap expected at ~70 mil, this deal is pretty good. If the cap changes, opinions could change.

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06-18-2012, 06:36 PM
  #149
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^ Good post. I agree. The reason DW has a knack for overpaying again goes back to what I mentioned earlier in that he's a player's GM, and wants to create a culture where players envy being a part of this franchise.
I can see that argument, but then he shouldn't be handing out NMC's (assuming he did give one to Stuart, if not, I have no problem with the deal).

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06-18-2012, 06:56 PM
  #150
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I feel so dumb at times because I really didn't think Huskins was that bad when we was with us. I mean, he always took the hit to make the play...

That being said, I think Stuart is a clear upgrade over Kent. I'm wondering how it'll all pan out after hearing DW compare Stuart's assets to Murray's.

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