HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XIV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-19-2012, 06:12 PM
  #101
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post

That's not even the only site using that picture with it captioned as Voynov.
http://www.timesleader.com/stories/K...tential,162805

But whatever, let's agree to disagree about that damn picture. It's getting old.
Are you sure that's not Martinez, Anje Kopidor, Brad Doty, or Jonathan Swift? Because the media never make mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Kesler was in the NHL on a division winner at age 19. He then spent the lock-out in the AHL afterwards, but as soon as the NHL was back in action he was full time in the NHL.
Kesler started his pro-career in Manitoba and wasn't a NHL regular until his 3rd season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Pavelski spent a grand total of 16 games in the AHL before joining the Sharks and spent his development time in the bottom six (where, according to you, top six skilled guys shouldn't be developing).
Pavelski was 22 by the time he signed out of NCAA. The Sharks kept him up to play in the top 6 his rookie season which he was ready to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Franzen spent one more year in Sweden after he was drafted, and then jumped straight to Detroit. In other words, exactly what Johansson did.
Frazen was drafted as a 24 year-old, and made his NHL debut at 25. Stop hanging out with Liberation and his lacrosse bros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Perreault was certainly less effective than Johansson and has never shown the ability to translate his game to the wing position, either. If you don't like Johansson's board work, I don't know how on Earth you're defending Perreault who gets creamed along the edges of the rink.
Perreault is actually willing to take a hit to make a play. That alone makes him a better option at wing than Johansson. Except he never got the chances that Johansson was repeatedly given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
More over, do you really think Hershey was an option for Johansson. First off, if you're putting up 40+ points in the NHL, odds are that you're NHL ready and the AHL isn't going to do you a whole lot of good. Besides that, what makes you think that Johansson wanted to play in Hershey any more than Sjogren? If Seguin was too good to send back to Juniors, how would Johansson not be too good to send back to Sweden?
He should have started in Hershey and nothing in his contract would have prevented that. If he would rather go back to Sweden than work on his game in Hershey and get the occasional call ups from the NHL that says it all about him as a prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
And you didn't actually address why you felt that the decisions were made based on development. The actions taken with Eakin and Orlov certainly seem to indicate that the coaches and management weren't making decisions based on development, but rather based on who they felt was best suited to help the team win.
Which would suggest even they didn't think they were a contender if Johansson had to be played in the top 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Because ShaMo (who isn't bad for a 3rd pairing guy, just got a way too big contract for that role in Buffalo), Jurcina, Erskine, etc. were all on one-way contracts. And the openings, at the time, were on the right side of the defense rather than the left. And in the time Alzner spent in the NHL (mostly on the right side), he didn't look that great.
No serious contender is ever going to let TFS's one-way contract stop them from playing a far better rookie on a two-way contract. Of course it would just make too much for you to accept that the Caps wanted Alzner playing meaningful top 4 minutes in Hershey to develop there.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 06:22 PM
  #102
Carlzner
Who's Zed?
 
Carlzner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 10,621
vCash: 500
Karlsson got overpaid big time.

Can I feel better about Sarge now?

Carlzner is online now  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:12 PM
  #103
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Karlsson got overpaid big time.

Can I feel better about Sarge now?
Until Green signs the same deal that Karlsson just did.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:18 PM
  #104
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
if GMGM actually got ryan for a fair price you would all be mad that our 2C problem is still not solved

And why shouldn't we be?

The GM's job is to fix problems and to win Stanley Cups. Didn't you know?

Atlas is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:20 PM
  #105
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,498
vCash: 500
The Wild freaking stole Josh Harding. Damn.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:22 PM
  #106
pman25
Registered User
 
pman25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 925
vCash: 500
Bobby Ryan will be pricey. He should go for more than Rick Nash

pman25 is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #107
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,381
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
And why shouldn't we be?

The GM's job is to fix problems and to win Stanley Cups. Didn't you know?
GM or Ted has stated that the plan is to try to compete every year, and that one year we will be due to win it all.

Perhaps that is the problem with George, he has convinced Ted with that plan. It sets a low expectation bar that is easy for George to attain. Ted has bought in. I hope one day before Ted sells or loses the team, he remembers the prize, and instructs his GM to actually try to win the cup.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:52 PM
  #108
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
GM or Ted has stated that the plan is to try to compete every year, and that one year we will be due to win it all.

Perhaps that is the problem with George, he has convinced Ted with that plan. It sets a low expectation bar that is easy for George to attain. Ted has bought in. I hope one day before Ted sells or loses the team, he remembers the prize, and instructs his GM to actually try to win the cup.

Yeah, that is the fuzzy way Ted and George seem to think:

Draft Ovie, Backstrom + Hope = Cup

Like Mario and Bettman will one day flip a coin in a STL/WSH Final and we might win. Or the refs will green light it for us. It isn't about the hockey for Ted and George.

Atlas is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:54 PM
  #109
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Kesler started his pro-career in Manitoba and wasn't a NHL regular until his 3rd season.
He saw 28 games in the NHL the same season he was drafted (only five fewer than he saw in the AHL). At age 19. His second season was the NHL lock-out, so naturally he was in the AHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Pavelski was 22 by the time he signed out of NCAA. The Sharks kept him up to play in the top 6 his rookie season which he was ready to play.
Pavelski only played 15 minutes a night his rookie year, and even less (14:06) his next season. Marleau still spent time at center at that point. Pavelski spent plenty of time in San Jose's bottom six during that period, though he did see top six action as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Frazen was drafted as a 24 year-old, and made his NHL debut at 25. Stop hanging out with Liberation and his lacrosse bros.
Really don't get the lax bros comments, probably because I have Liberation on ignore.
Didn't realize Franzen was drafted as a 24 year old, you got me there.

But overall, despite your attempts to nit-pick these example apart, the trend is holding. There are countless examples of contenders and winners developing quality talent in their NHL line-up. Even going back to Datsyuk, you used him being on a "stacked team" as a reason why he was on their 3rd line. Then you complained that the Capitals didn't have enough forwards better than Johansson. So is it good or bad to have a quality young player on a stacked team playing fewer minutes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Perreault is actually willing to take a hit to make a play. That alone makes him a better option at wing than Johansson. Except he never got the chances that Johansson was repeatedly given.
While I certainly admire Perreault's ability to take a licking and keep on ticking, that alone doesn't make him a better player. Perreault doesn't have the strength to protect the puck and usually ends up turning it over when he gets hit. Perreault's creative and willing to take punishment, but he's no better at actually extending possession than Johansson is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
He should have started in Hershey and nothing in his contract would have prevented that. If he would rather go back to Sweden than work on his game in Hershey and get the occasional call ups from the NHL that says it all about him as a prospect.
Because he can't work on his game in Sweden? Or the NHL?
I guess Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Backstrom, Daniel Alfredsson, and the countless other Swedish prospects who never spent time in the AHL were all crappy prospects, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Which would suggest even they didn't think they were a contender if Johansson had to be played in the top 6.
Them holding onto Wideman, Knuble, and Vokoun at the deadline suggest the opposite. You're trying to make a mountain out of a pothole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
No serious contender is ever going to let TFS's one-way contract stop them from playing a far better rookie on a two-way contract. Of course it would just make too much for you to accept that the Caps wanted Alzner playing meaningful top 4 minutes in Hershey to develop there.
Sloan was playing over Erskine, too. I don't get it any more than you do, but someone in the organization believed in Sloan.

Mystlyfe is online now  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:58 PM
  #110
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Karlsson got overpaid big time.

Can I feel better about Sarge now?
6.5 is pretty good for a 22 year old who was the best defenseman this year

um is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:23 PM
  #111
G3 LesPaul
Registered User
 
G3 LesPaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
6.5 is pretty good for a 22 year old who was the best defenseman this year
I think he is vastly overrated.

To make it funnier, Jay Bo is making just as much

G3 LesPaul is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:25 PM
  #112
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,381
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Yeah, that is the fuzzy way Ted and George seem to think:

Draft Ovie, Backstrom + Hope = Cup

Like Mario and Bettman will one day flip a coin in a STL/WSH Final and we might win. Or the refs will green light it for us. It isn't about the hockey for Ted and George.
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in their meetings.

I need to be reminded that they don't have their eye on the prize, and keep my expectations in check. I have it lowered by simply being a caps fan since 1977, but Ovi has certainly raised it up again.

Its interesting going through life, wanting to see your team win a championship, just one, decade after decade. Eventually you learn to live with their failures, which while entertaining, it's a shame when we are so close, fumble away a great run, and then have to do a reset.

We will know a lot more in the next two weeks but regardless, I think George only tries to compete, and for that reason, tend to doubt he can win us a cup.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
  #113
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Much better than being a perennial doormat like CBJ or worse, a perennial bubble team like CGY. At least we have hopes that can be dashed. As much as it sucks to be a bridesmaid every time...

And yes, I want the big prize as much as anybody.

Well, I wish we could even make it to Bridesmaid status. Feels like we're a long way off from even that.

Just making the playoffs each year with a punchers chance isn't what we were sold. Without a doubt I'm happy to make the playoffs each year and have as good a chance as anyone else. Certainly not in the crowd that was rooting for us to miss the playoffs this past season. Sure does beat being a CBJ fan though, you're right.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #114
usiel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
usiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Malaz City
Country: San Marino
Posts: 9,894
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to usiel
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
6.5 is pretty good for a 22 year old who was the best defenseman this year
We'll have to see if he can replicate next season or two. As an offensive Dman yes he was the best..best dman overall /pass.

__________________
True Story™®©
usiel is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:53 PM
  #115
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Thinking of asset management:

I would sign Semin to a 1-4 yr deal.
I would trade Green for either draft picks, a solid prospect, or in a deal for a 2C.
Then, I would be ready and willing to trade Semin if the chemistry isn't right.

It looks likely that both assets (Semin and Green) will be lost for nothing. Green to injury, diminishing skills. Semin to UFA.
It's not clear that Semin has/had at best restricted trade value? The Caps would have probably moved him if a great deal had presented itself. You want to give Green away for picks and a solid prospect (I could buy into the 2C trade for the right one)? Might as well pass on Semin and go into mini-rebuild mode at that rate because we need two top-4, 18-23 min a night D in that plan, one a legit puck mover.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 08:57 PM
  #116
brs03
Coo coo ca cha!
 
brs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 12,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by usiel View Post
We'll have to see if he can replicate next season or two. As an offensive Dman yes he was the best..best dman overall /pass.
Yeah, he was pretty well protected situationally last season.

I think it's overpayment, perhaps humorously so. Then again, maybe you can live with that for a guy with that skillset. There are far worse things you can spend that money on, and salaries are only going to go up and up.

brs03 is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:40 PM
  #117
thewhiteguy1
Registered User
 
thewhiteguy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maryland
Country: Canada
Posts: 12
vCash: 500
i'm new, so easy on the flame fest.

how about looking to filip kuba as that LD to partner with Green?
word is that he wants out of Ottawa and is a UFA, also he played top minutes with Karlsson, so he's known to be good for it....

thewhiteguy1 is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:48 PM
  #118
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewhiteguy1 View Post
i'm new, so easy on the flame fest.

how about looking to filip kuba as that LD to partner with Green?
word is that he wants out of Ottawa and is a UFA, also he played top minutes with Karlsson, so he's known to be good for it....
Kuba would be a solid addition. I'd prefer to add a real first pairing talent to play on the first pairing, but at this point, anyone better than Schultz will be a D partner for Green, I can get behind.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 10:01 PM
  #119
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewhiteguy1 View Post
i'm new, so easy on the flame fest.

how about looking to filip kuba as that LD to partner with Green?
word is that he wants out of Ottawa and is a UFA, also he played top minutes with Karlsson, so he's known to be good for it....
That's a lot of faith to be putting into a 36 year old Kuba and a 39 year old Hamrlik, in my opinion. If we didn't already have one ancient vet LD, I might be more inclined.

Mystlyfe is online now  
Old
06-20-2012, 02:54 AM
  #120
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post

I need to be reminded that they don't have their eye on the prize, and keep my expectations in check. I have it lowered by simply being a caps fan since 1977, but Ovi has certainly raised it up again.

Its interesting going through life, wanting to see your team win a championship, just one, decade after decade. Eventually you learn to live with their failures

I don't know about you but the Caps have given me a complex or syndrome or something. The rest of my life is great but my hockey team sucks!

You have a couple more years in Purgatory than I do. I go back to Maruk and early Gartner. I didn't get obsessed until the Patrick Division playoffs against the Isles. Both teams played their guts out. That was hockey!

I have lost all faith in Ted and George. I know mediocrity when I see it. George is in a downward spiral: no vision all these years, now he's desperate and all the other GMs know it. He can't win. Best for him to start over fresh in a new town like Poile did.

Meanwhile, we burn in the lake of fire...

Atlas is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 07:27 AM
  #121
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
 
Ovechkins Wodka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DC
Posts: 4,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman25 View Post
Bobby Ryan will be pricey. He should go for more than Rick Nash
cant see this happening

Ovechkins Wodka is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 07:32 AM
  #122
brs03
Coo coo ca cha!
 
brs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 12,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
cant see this happening
You may be right, but that's an indictment of NHL GMs. Probably a better player/better future, definitely a better contract.

brs03 is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 08:35 AM
  #123
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,674
vCash: 500
Can we trade for Douglas Murray already please?

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 08:44 AM
  #124
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Can we trade for Douglas Murray already please?
Id do cartwheels down F street.

strungout is offline  
Old
06-20-2012, 08:52 AM
  #125
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Id do cartwheels down F street.
McPhee would just convert him to LW.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.