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The Lockout Thread: Good Things Come To Those Who Wait

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08-29-2012, 06:23 PM
  #251
Metro Misfits
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Gary Bettman must go.

Don Cherry NHL Commish.

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08-29-2012, 07:16 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

Hearing that some NHL owners have no idea what the NHL proposed yesterday. Ask who's in control on NHL side?
What do you want to bet those owners left out of the loop are small market ones?

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08-29-2012, 07:17 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
What do you want to bet those owners left out of the loop are small market ones?
That's pretty bad. Good to know this was a mutual agreement. **** you Bettman.

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08-29-2012, 07:29 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
That's pretty bad. Good to know this was a mutual agreement. **** you Bettman.
I would like to be able to vote Bettman out.

It would be nice to watch a SCF and not hear the BOO birds when Buttman is standing beside of the Cup.

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08-29-2012, 07:34 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
What do you want to bet those owners left out of the loop are small market ones?
Possibly. But Jim Rutherford is on the committee and was at the meeting as well as the previous ones.

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08-29-2012, 07:37 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post


And now the players are speaking out...
That's the point, really. The players want to play. They need the money they get from playing. The owners' money comes from long term growth in the value of their franchises- they grow wealth that way, even while many of them lose money operationally. The long term franchise values won't be touched by a lockout, and most owners have alternate revenue sources anyway.

The players have no leverage. The closer it gets to the season, the more obvious that's going to be to them. The NHL will get more or less what it wants in the end anyway.

If the players are trying to cast Bettman as the villain, whatever. He could not care less. He openly confesses to laughing when people boo him, because he knows that they do not have the slightest idea of what his job actually is or entails, a job he's quite good at. He's happy to be the villain, as long as the bad PR doesn't translate into fans staying away. Which, as he and the owners learned in 2006, it doesn't.

So yeah- whine about Bettman all you want, but if they players just want to play, they're free to sign on the dotted line and play. They're going to have to give up a lot. They may be able to get some revenue sharing in return for it, they may not, but the idea that players aren't going to have to give up something fairly significant are laughable.

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08-29-2012, 07:40 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Possibly. But Jim Rutherford is on the committee and was at the meeting as well as the previous ones.
I'm betting it's just owners who haven't involved themselves or their representatives closely in the process, and I bet that that crosses the spectrum and has little to do with large or small market.

But I'm sure Karmanos was keyed in- Rutherford is a pretty prominent figure in just about all league deliberations.

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08-30-2012, 09:31 AM
  #258
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...n_the_bedroom/

Quote:
The NHLPA responded to Bettman’s latest proposal for a new collective bargaining agreement Wednesday and the short version is they didn’t like it very much. They think the NHL is changing the rules of the game and questioned why the league should get any credit for suggesting the players take a slightly smaller wage cut than the massive one Bettman and the owners wanted them to take seven weeks ago.

That substantive movement Bettman said the owners latest proposal included bumping up the amount of HRR the owners are willing to share with the players to 46 per cent from 43 per cent (from 57 per cent in 2011-12)? Not that impressed, said Fehr.

"Perhaps you could flip it the other way," Fehr said. "If the players said they wanted to increase the players' share by the same [14 points the owners wanted to cut the players' share by] that would be 71 percent. If you took that [hypothetical 71] per cent down to 68 percent, how would you characterize that? I don't know. You'll have to make that judgment."

...

And don't even get Fehr started about Bettman's real sleight of hand - at least from the players' point of view -- which is changing the definition of HRR on the run so that the owners can claim all kinds of their expenses off the top before they begin to share league revenues with the players. When that math kicks in, Bettman isn't talking about sharing HRR with players 50-50 at all. It's more like 54-46 in favour of the owners.

...

The players aren't happy with the owner's suggestion that they'll be able to pull off the magic trick of reducing the total amount of league revenues devoted to player salaries by 19.3 per cent and still pay out a contract the way it's written.

The owners say they'll be able to do that by having the players set aside more money for escrow. What Bettman doesn't acknowledge is that the chances of the players getting that money back are between slim and none.

To players putting money into escrow with no chance of getting back again is a pay cut by any other name. To them, Bettman isn't playing fair.

"From a players standpoint, you should understand, doesn't make much of a difference," said Fehr. "Should the player not get the dollar value that is on his contract because there is a rollback, which is simply a name for crossing out one number and writing in another, or whether he doesn't get an amount because there is escrow, he still doesn't get it. It amounts to the same thing."
So I'm putting the chances of the season starting on time at less than 1%

Oh, and Bob McKenzie returns from his summer break on Tuesday, so there should be a lot more insight on both sides.

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08-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #259
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Just got a chance to look at the schedule.

In 2012, 23 of our 39 games are away. If the season were to start January 1st, and we were to play the same schedule (I'm not sure of the procedure regarding the schedule if that's the case, but I assume we'd just use the current one), 25 of our 43 games would be at home. Granted it's not like we've ever been a stellar home team or anything, but I bet the lack of travel would help immensely. Not to mention of those remaining road games, ONE is against a Western Conference team, and it's St. Louis.

The season starting on January 1st, assuming the schedule remains the same, could be HUGE for the Canes. It'd suck, I'd rather a full year of hockey. But it could be awesome.

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08-30-2012, 09:53 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post

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08-30-2012, 09:55 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Just got a chance to look at the schedule.

In 2012, 23 of our 39 games are away. If the season were to start January 1st, and we were to play the same schedule (I'm not sure of the procedure regarding the schedule if that's the case, but I assume we'd just use the current one), 25 of our 43 games would be at home. Granted it's not like we've ever been a stellar home team or anything, but I bet the lack of travel would help immensely. Not to mention of those remaining road games, ONE is against a Western Conference team, and it's St. Louis.

The season starting on January 1st, assuming the schedule remains the same, could be HUGE for the Canes. It'd suck, I'd rather a full year of hockey. But it could be awesome.
But if you calculate the usual early-season suckitude, the team wouldn't start "playing" until mid-February, effectively placing us in ~9th.

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08-30-2012, 10:02 AM
  #262
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It appears as though the owners think they are dealing with the same morons they dealt with last time. Not Donald Fehr. This guy made it so that the middle relievers in MLB make more money than a guy like Ray Whitney. Did they really think they were going to trick him into accepting the same basic proposal? Idiots.

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08-30-2012, 10:28 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
But if you calculate the usual early-season suckitude, the team wouldn't start "playing" until mid-February, effectively placing us in ~9th.
Or we do what we normally do and don't win games until January...

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08-30-2012, 01:07 PM
  #264
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Hockey has too many games anyway. I actually found the 66 games sched the NBA did last year MORE entertaining, cause the games were that much more important.

Hypothetically, say the season starts on Jan 1. That's 3.5 months (105 days give or take) approx before playoffs start. Most teams generally play 4 times a week, sometimes more, sometimes less, but I'd say the average is 4. 105 / 7 = 15 weeks. 15 * 4 = 60. Each team gets 30 home and 30 road games, there is probably a less than 0% chance they'll use the same sched cause it won't be fair.

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08-30-2012, 01:11 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
Each team gets 30 home and 30 road games, there is probably a less than 0% chance they'll use the same sched cause it won't be fair.
"****."

- The schedule makers

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08-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
"****."

- The schedule makers
I think they're having dartboards made up with both of Fehr and Bettman's faces.

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08-30-2012, 03:53 PM
  #267
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If all of the fans, players and some of the owners hate Bettman, how the hell does he have a job?

Who in the blue **** appointed that man to **** with us?

If they would allow us to vote him out, his sphincter would be twitchier then a college kid that drank water in Mexico during spring break.

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08-30-2012, 04:23 PM
  #268
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The owners. And their opinion is all that matters.

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08-30-2012, 09:42 PM
  #269
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...gnificant.html

Great read.

It's a good thing it's negotiable, because I really can't see the players being happy that a piece of their revenue is being used to fund the stadium upgrades.

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08-31-2012, 05:39 AM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
If all of the fans, players and some of the owners hate Bettman, how the hell does he have a job?

Who in the blue **** appointed that man to **** with us?

If they would allow us to vote him out, his sphincter would be twitchier then a college kid that drank water in Mexico during spring break.
What the fans and players think of Bettman is irrelevant. Bettman works for the owners and as long as the owners want him there, he'll stay. Similar to JR in Carolina. The only one that matters is Karmanos and JR will be here until he wants to leave or until he and PK have some sort of falling out.

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08-31-2012, 05:41 AM
  #271
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I can't remember, how were contracts handled back during the last lockout? Did each team just lose a year of a players contract?

If so and if there is a lockout, that would suck given what we traded for 1 year of Jordan Staal.

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08-31-2012, 06:19 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I can't remember, how were contracts handled back during the last lockout? Did each team just lose a year of a players contract?

If so and if there is a lockout, that would suck given what we traded for 1 year of Jordan Staal.
Yep and yup.

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08-31-2012, 06:21 AM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I can't remember, how were contracts handled back during the last lockout? Did each team just lose a year of a players contract?

If so and if there is a lockout, that would suck given what we traded for 1 year of Jordan Staal.
... I think you mean signed Semin for one year, Staal's extension is already in place.

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08-31-2012, 06:52 AM
  #274
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... I think you mean signed Semin for one year, Staal's extension is already in place.
That too, but I actually meant Staal, not the extension, but the trade. All indications is that he wanted to come to Carolina and not sign long term in Pittsburgh. JR made the trade to get Jordan here this year and not wait until he was a UFA after next season, the reason being that a lot of things could change in a year on Jordan's side and he wanted to improve the team this year. So he traded Sutter, Dumoulin and the 8th for 1 year of Jordan Staal AND to avoid the risk that things might change after a year and he might not be able to get Jordan. I didn't like giving up that much (moreso Sutter and/or Dumo), but I was ok with it and understand the reasoning behind it.

What I was saying that if there is a lockout, then we lose this 1 year of Jordan (previous contract) and basically traded Sutter, Dumoulin and the 8th pick for simply the chance that nothing will have changed in 1 year regarding Jordan's desire to play here. In a lockout year, I kind of doubt that much would have changed in Jordan's desire to come here so that would be disappointing to say the least.

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08-31-2012, 07:07 AM
  #275
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Fair enough, totally misunderstood what you were going for in that post. I kindof agree, especially if he had the chance to play with his brothers in say the SEL during the lockout or something along those lines and they liked how that was working out for all 3 of them. Only way that would change is if they made UFA a fixed age instead of years served, which is something I've heard as a rumored idea in the CBA discussions, and if that was 27 then the Canes would have even less bargaining power then they had before.

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