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The Lockout Thread: Good Things Come To Those Who Wait

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Old
08-31-2012, 08:13 AM
  #276
VAcaniac
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What ever happened to the division realignment? Is it part of the negotiations or is it dead?

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08-31-2012, 08:26 AM
  #277
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I'm sure it'll be part of the talks, but only once they have all the major aspects ironed out. IE: trade you our reallignment proposal for being released to do the Olympics for the durration of the CBA.

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08-31-2012, 02:33 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Fehr: NHL will not respond to proposals that don't include salary cuts. "At this point, the talks are recessed."
****!

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08-31-2012, 02:35 PM
  #279
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Well...we've got football to keep us going for a while. After that ends, I'm gonna be so bored...

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08-31-2012, 02:57 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by MD View Post
****!
Quote:
Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib

Fehr clarifies owners elected recess of #CBA talks. Says #nhlpa ready to resume.
Quote:
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

Bettman: what started as a promising week, ends in disappointment.
Both sides blame each other for negotiations breaking off, both sides claim they're happy to resume.

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08-31-2012, 02:59 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Both sides blame each other for negotiations breaking off, both sides claim they're happy to resume.
That's a shocker if I've ever seen one.

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Old
08-31-2012, 03:17 PM
  #282
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Yeah, not looking good. Football is what Im looking forward to right now. This whole lockout cycle is too much for me to really care when the season will start. Ill be happy when there's an agreement, but the back and forthing is too nauseating.

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08-31-2012, 03:43 PM
  #283
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Well boys and girls, it ain't looking good.

If they can't figure out what constitutes the pot of money they are trying to split up, they'll never figure out how they are going to split it. If I was the union, I'd be dead set against anything that rolled back salaries (right after half of the league backed up the Brink's trucks in free agency). The owners are going to need to pay those salaries even if they cap hit is rolled back. I am with the owners on reducing the percentage of revenue for the cap, but I can't back them on this hard line stand and wanting to roll back dollars on current contracts.

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08-31-2012, 03:48 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie

In other words, NHL teams this summer have been signing players to contracts the league has no intention of paying in full.
It would explain why so many teams are signing players to these long term deals that are just on the edge of overpayment.

They "overpay" the player, the player happily signs thinking they've got a good deal, then the owners decide "Well, that amount isn't exactly what you're going to be getting".

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08-31-2012, 05:16 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
It would explain why so many teams are signing players to these long term deals that are just on the edge of overpayment.

They "overpay" the player, the player happily signs thinking they've got a good deal, then the owners decide "Well, that amount isn't exactly what you're going to be getting".
There's probably some truth in that. In some cases though, many of these guys get huge signing bonuses that get paid no matter if there is a season or not, and I doubt they'd be able to roll back signing bonuses so they indeed will pay those. Parise and Suter each got $10M in signing bonus this July and get another $10M next July, and another $5M the following July, even if there is no season. Weber get's $13M signing bonuses each year for 4 straight years and then $8M for 2 more years after that.

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Old
08-31-2012, 09:17 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
There's probably some truth in that. In some cases though, many of these guys get huge signing bonuses that get paid no matter if there is a season or not, and I doubt they'd be able to roll back signing bonuses so they indeed will pay those. Parise and Suter each got $10M in signing bonus this July and get another $10M next July, and another $5M the following July, even if there is no season. Weber get's $13M signing bonuses each year for 4 straight years and then $8M for 2 more years after that.
Yes, and neither one of those teams are "deep pockets" teams. These are the same owners that are wanting a salary rollback because they can't help themselves. The salary floor teams have been more responsible and the teams at the cap are the ones with all the bad contracts that would benefit from the rollback. Every bit of that is profit for those franchises.

I think the cap needs to be addressed, but the current contracts should stand.

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09-01-2012, 05:40 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post

Found this on the main boards, this has gotta go viral. Best hockey video ever. Last two minutes gave me chills.
Hairs standing up on the back of my neck. I hope this video makes the rounds and the players and owners watch it. Puts it all in perspective. Hockey shouldn't be about money. It's more than just a business.

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09-01-2012, 05:41 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
Hairs standing up on the back of my neck. I hope this video makes the rounds and the players and owners watch it. Puts it all in perspective. Hockey shouldn't be about money. It's more than just a business.
Same here. Then again, that happens every time I see Bourque holding the Cup, so not sure if it's because of the editing or just because of that...

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09-01-2012, 05:46 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Same here. Then again, that happens every time I see Bourque holding the Cup, so not sure if it's because of the editing or just because of that...
That and his kid in the background about to lose it. The video pointed out something else that I haven't thought about. If there is a lockout then we've probably seen the last of Selanne and Brodeur.

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09-01-2012, 06:09 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
That and his kid in the background about to lose it. The video pointed out something else that I haven't thought about. If there is a lockout then we've probably seen the last of Selanne and Brodeur.
I really hope not, but I also doubt it. While all signs point to a lockout, all signs also point to a lockout that WON'T last all season.

I'd be SHOCKED if there wasn't hockey this year. There just might not be as much as we hope.

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Old
09-01-2012, 07:00 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
I really hope not, but I also doubt it. While all signs point to a lockout, all signs also point to a lockout that WON'T last all season.

I'd be SHOCKED if there wasn't hockey this year. There just might not be as much as we hope.
You're more optimistic than I am.

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Old
09-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
You're more optimistic than I am.
You think it'll be full season? Wow. Now I'm starting to get nervous haha, I'm not following it as closely as I should.

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Old
09-01-2012, 08:53 PM
  #293
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NHL made over 3 billion last year, got a well needed TV deal. Now Bettman wants to **** it up.

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09-02-2012, 10:14 AM
  #294
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That video was incredible, and it definitely made me angrier.

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09-02-2012, 10:41 AM
  #295
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NHL made over 3 billion last year, got a well needed TV deal. Now Bettman wants to **** it up.
IIRC, the TV money is guaranteed, regardless of whether or not there are any games played.

Couple that with the owners all having separate investments and means of income, and the league is perfectly capable and willing to starve out the players during a lockout.

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Old
09-02-2012, 11:18 AM
  #296
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Great video.

Crazy to see Maybeshewill getting their music in such a mainstream video. They've been one of my favorite bands for years but they're not very well known.

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Old
09-02-2012, 11:43 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Anton Babchug View Post
IIRC, the TV money is guaranteed, regardless of whether or not there are any games played.

Couple that with the owners all having separate investments and means of income, and the league is perfectly capable and willing to starve out the players during a lockout.
Yup. Not to mention that if anything, a lockout makes the owners money- with really rich people, wealth is calculated in the value of their assets. In all this talk of profits and losses year to year, people miss that an NHL franchise is a valuble thing, and that value grows. The growth in value year to year is what owners count on for their money, not just the various operational profits. Those are good, but if they can break even or come close, the increase in value of the franchise over time more than makes up for that.

A lockout does not hurt that at all, unless it significantly damages the league going forward. The owners learned from the last time that it won't- the league can come back stronger than ever. The long term franchise valuations will still go up at about the same rate, or even faster, if they get a deal more favorable to ownership from it.

The players don't have that advantage. The lose a season, they lose, on average, 10% of their career earnings. Since players generally live on their hockey earnings and the investments coming from them the rest of their lives, that's a 10% drop in quality of life for 40 years after they retire. For many, this will be their second lockout, and a lot of money goes off the board. Guys like Suter, Parise and Weber, with their massively front loaded contracts, would be utterly hosed.

The owners would lose nothing. The players would lose quite a lot. That's why the owners have just about all of the leverage in this situation, and why Bettman would get fired if he didn't crush the NHLPA this time around. He's in a position where he has the power to get the owners a much better deal, and the owners expect him to use it. The people saying that Bettman and Fehr should get together over a love of hockey and stop worrying so much about the business are just a little precious- the NHL is big business, and they were both hired with showdowns like this exactly in mind.

Oh, and the TV money is guaranteed this year, with the NHL playing under the current contract with NBC an additional year (at the end of the contract) for nothing if there is a full season lockout. I'm not sure how it works for a partial season. They would lose a year of TV money, just not this year.

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Old
09-02-2012, 12:08 PM
  #298
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Darn

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Old
09-02-2012, 12:36 PM
  #299
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Fully agreed with Jeff. I know a lot of the things I've said about this have been sounding pro owner, I'm not on their "side". I just have accepted after watching three of these develop that the owners are in control and unless they are forcing inherently mean and evil conditions on the players I don't feel sorry for them. The players got two amazing concessions last time with early ufa, and standard minimum pay. The only players I ever really felt for were the low end guys. Now they're taken care or, everyone else is making bank. THe deals people are getting are seemingly out of whack for the sport, but to compete teams need to do it. A 70 million cap only works for a handful of teams, thats how much the top teams were paying before the last lockout. Linking the cap to revenues that can be skewed by TO and other big cities is retarded, and that's on the owners.

I think they need to have a set cap in the 45-60 range with very minor incremental increases every couple of years. Unlink it from revenue. I would have a luxury tax allowing up to maybe 65 or 70 that's dollar for dollar and that money gets redistributed.

Regardless the players are gonna have to accept the owners platform and negotiate off it. They lose no matter what. Crosby an ovie standing united means nothing, those guys have enough cash to run a third world country. Careers are too short, and these guys make bank in a sport where teams fall over themselves to give money away regardless of the rules. No player is getting screwed.

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Old
09-03-2012, 08:13 AM
  #300
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
For many, this will be their second lockout, and a lot of money goes off the board. Guys like Suter, Parise and Weber, with their massively front loaded contracts, would be utterly hosed.
I agree with a lot of what cptjeff said, but Suter, Parise and Weber are guys that won't get hosed in this because a good chunk of their money is guaranteed in signing bonuses that get paid out even if there is a lockout.

If I understand the contract correctly, Weber already got $13M (of his total $14M for this year) in July in the form of a signing bonus. If there is no season, he only loses out on $1M for this year as his total this year is $14M (of which $13M was the signing bonus). In fact, he get's $68M over 6 years in guaranteed signing bonuses, so $68M / $110M total is guaranteed. He loses very little actual money if there's a lockout this year. Parise and Suter each got $10M this year (out of a total $12M), get another $10M next July and a total of $25M over 3 years in guaranteed signing bonuses (out of $98M total). Same applies to them, they lose very little actual money if there is a lockout.

They are in a lot better shape than other players because a good chunk of their total money is in signing bonuses (and I'm sure their agents did it that way know that possibility of a lockout).

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