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Offseason Discussion VI: Well that got out of hand (UPDATED contract chart in Post 1)

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:39 AM
  #51
mpp9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I would definitely like Setoguchi. Forgot he was a RHS.
He's a perfect fit in our system. I see very little in Neal's game that Seto can't reproduce in the same situation. Not as big, but more than makes up for it with his willingness to throw his body around and skating ability. Has better one on one ability as well whereas Neal is a bit more limited there.

Clutterbuck is on the cheap and a RFA next year. Has the ability to be a third wheel in the top 6. We all know about his physicality, but he also has a bit of offensive upside especially in our system under DB.

Coyle is a great replacement for Staal in the near future. Can play both wing and center. And also is a RHS.

That's the best deal I've seen if Minnesota would be interested. Staal/Koivu as a 1/2 punch is an upgrade over Seto in the top 6 there. Clutterbuck is rumored to be available and Kennedy could be moved to help replace the secondary scoring there. And Coyle is a piece I'd imagine Shero would request to feel comfortable in moving Staal.

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06-19-2012, 10:43 AM
  #52
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I think Martin still holds value. One bad season shouldn't taint his entire career. He also had success here in his first season, so it's not like he's hopeless.

And Martin holds more value than Malone, and is a more desirable "bad contract". Martin can still regain his form. Malone is on the wrong side of 30 and clearly on the decline.

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06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He's a perfect fit in our system. I see very little in Neal's game that Seto can't reproduce in the same situation. Not as big, but more than makes up for it with his willingness to throw his body around and skating ability. Has better one on one ability as well whereas Neal is a bit more limited there.

Clutterbuck is on the cheap and a RFA next year. Has the ability to be a third wheel in the top 6. We all know about his physicality, but he also has a bit of offensive upside especially in our system under DB.

Coyle is a great replacement for Staal in the near future. Can play both wing and center. And also is a RHS.

That's the best deal I've seen if Minnesota would be interested. Staal/Koivu as a 1/2 punch is an upgrade over Seto in the top 6 there. Clutterbuck is rumored to be available and Kennedy could be moved to help replace the secondary scoring there. And Coyle is a piece I'd imagine Shero would request to feel comfortable in moving Staal.
I still don't want it if we are giving Staal. At least not a top choice for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I think Martin still holds value. One bad season shouldn't taint his entire career. He also had success here in his first season, so it's not like he's hopeless.

And Martin holds more value than Malone, and is a more desirable "bad contract". Martin can still regain his form. Malone is on the wrong side of 30 and clearly on the decline.
Is he? He has been very consistent. His problem is he keeps getting hurt. Last season was his best point total since leaving Pittsburgh, and he was only 3 points below that in 9 less games. Though admittedly, his goals have been dropping. Points-wise though, he has been very consistently floating around the mid 40s his entire career. His PPG has been higher in Tampa than it ever was here, with the last two seasons being the highest of his career.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 06-19-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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06-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Shero confirms that he expects to trade a defenseman or two before next season, declines to say if he's asked any to waive no-trade clause.
Who, Martin, Lovejoy?

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06-19-2012, 11:58 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Who, Martin, Lovejoy?
Lovejoy has to be one of them.

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06-19-2012, 12:01 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Lovejoy has to be one of them.
agreed DB playing Strait and Despres over Lovejoy in the playoffs was pretty evident that Lovejoy has no place here.

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06-19-2012, 12:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I think Martin still holds value. One bad season shouldn't taint his entire career. He also had success here in his first season, so it's not like he's hopeless.

And Martin holds more value than Malone, and is a more desirable "bad contract". Martin can still regain his form. Malone is on the wrong side of 30 and clearly on the decline.
Malone still holds value too. He's a consistent 20+/20+ guy even though he has had injuries and missed good amount of time the last couple seasons. That's where Malone's issues arise, injuries. Otherwise his production to cost factor is pretty much on cue for the times. This last part also holds true for, Martin.

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06-19-2012, 12:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Who, Martin, Lovejoy?
Lovejoy for sure and hopefully Martin. Of course it could be Lovejoy and Bortuzzo or something along those lines.

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06-19-2012, 12:11 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Who, Martin, Lovejoy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Lovejoy has to be one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
agreed DB playing Strait and Despres over Lovejoy in the playoffs was pretty evident that Lovejoy has no place here.
Are any of you in the "we shouldn't waive Lovejoy territory?"

For me he's the only one that we've seen who doesn't need more time for us to access him. I don't have one tear for him if he's waived. I will go onto say I hope he gets picked up by another team because he's one helluva human being, every day hockey player, he's not quite there and at his age that's not good.. He's almost too nice to a fault. Gotta love him as a person.

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06-19-2012, 12:12 PM
  #60
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Lovejoy was downright horrendous for two post-seasons in a row... I think that ship has sailed.

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06-19-2012, 12:15 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Are any of you in the "we shouldn't waive Lovejoy territory?"

For me he's the only one that we've seen who doesn't need more time for us to access him. I don't have one tear for him if he's waived. I will go onto say I hope he gets picked up by another team because he's one helluva human being, every day hockey player, he's not quite there and at his age that's not good.. He's almost too nice to a fault. Gotta love him as a person.
I've always liked Lovejoy but I still think he goes. I'd like to see him do well elsewhere.

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06-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Lovejoy was downright horrendous for two post-seasons in a row... I think that ship has sailed.
I think the first thing I've ever agreed with Cassius on. Guy has decent size & is a good skater but when under pressure he panics ever time. He just doesn't have the vision to see the game at the NHL speed.

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06-19-2012, 12:33 PM
  #63
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If we can only acquire one top six winger why not try
Kunitz - Crosby - new winger
Staal - malkin - Neal
Cooke - Jeffrey/dupuis - Kennedy
Dupuis/tangradi - vitale - Adams
Jeffrey/tangradi

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06-19-2012, 12:36 PM
  #64
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The issue is moving Staal to wing, it was discussed in April. Staal is a center, I don't think he will move to wing.

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06-19-2012, 12:58 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
The issue is moving Staal to wing, it was discussed in April. Staal is a center, I don't think he will move to wing.
If he has any ambitions about ever being a go to guy getting prime minutes (PP, offensive zone time, etc) in a scoring role, he either moves to the wing, or is playing somewhere else in the next year or so. Because the only way he gets that role in Pittsburgh is if one of Malkin or Crosby is hurt or traded, or he moves to the wing.

If he has any ambitions of getting rich, signing that big contract, he gets traded this summer. As that window is rapidly closing. His chance at getting a big payday is him taking a new deal from a team like Toronto to play as their #1C along side Kessel. In a situation like that he can put up 70+ points, which will equal a nice payday (he was on pace for 66 as our #2C, so 70+ with quality icetime, quality wingers and nice PP time isn't unrealistic). However if he signs an extension with the Pens (say 3-4 years), and continues as a #3C, he'll likely have missed his window as he's no longer that young big skilled center with potential, and is now that known quantity #2C. He'll still get paid, but the chance at really getting paid would be gone.

I don't see how RS could resign him to 5.5m playing as the 3rd C in a defensive role. I don't see Staal taking less than 5m in any case. And even at 5m that's a tough pill to swallow to play a shutdown/PK role on the 3rd line.

If one of Crosby/Malkin were wingers and Staal was the 2c, I wouldn't care. Pay him 6+ long term. But that's not the case. I don't see how the Pens will fit a competent D, quality goaltending, wingers for Crosby/Malkin (legit wingers, not Dupuis+), and afford Staal - arguably the best 3C in the game today.

I'm not saying this is what he wants (to be that go to guy, get big money, etc). But you know this is what his agent will be telling him as they talk to Shero about an extension. I love Staal, but if we're paying him 5+ I want him to be in the top 6, getting PP time... so likely on the wing. Or move him and bring back assets who can do this.

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06-19-2012, 01:09 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
What is worth more to next seasons Pens? A perennial 20+ goal scoring young RH shot winger who was drafted 8th overall back when, who could explode with our C's, or a 7th overall 18 year old....
Surely that 7th overall COULD be significantly better than Setoguchi, but he could also be worse, and in any case he isn't going to be better for quite some time.

Give me Setoguchi for Martin and I'll be doing carthwheels.

There's a big difference to saying that Martin has negative value and saying that Minnesota should give us Setoguchi, and then add to it.... after last seasons performances, we'd be super lucky if Martin brought Setoguchi.

Seto has tailed off somewhat as well, but I agree their values are roughly approximate. However Martin is the more rare commodity. All else being equal experienced D usually carry the heavier premium in trades vs "could be really good again" forwards. But yah. I'd be more than a little pleased to have Seto in place of Martin.


Quote:
Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Shero confirms that he expects to trade a defenseman or two before next season, declines to say if he's asked any to waive no-trade clause.
And so it begins...

My money is on Martin and Strait or God forbid, Strait and Niskanen... leaving the egg-scrambler intact.

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06-19-2012, 01:12 PM
  #67
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Martin and Strait in my opinion is what'll happen.

Harding's re-signed for 3 years I think.

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06-19-2012, 01:14 PM
  #68
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That's two mods who vote Martin and Strait. Are there any who dare oppose us?

Keep your fingers crossed and hope we're right. I think Strait has had just enough time in the NHL that someone might take a chance on him, and that we'll keep Bortuzzo because of his size (and at a minimum his potential to be a more physical D - if he's not already).

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06-19-2012, 01:18 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That's two mods who vote Martin and Strait. Are there any who dare oppose us?

Keep your fingers crossed and hope we're right. I think Strait has had just enough time in the NHL that someone might take a chance on him, and that we'll keep Bortuzzo because of his size (and at a minimum his potential to be a more physical D - if he's not already).
I will oppose. How about Martin and Lovejoy.

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06-19-2012, 01:19 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I will oppose. How about Martin and Lovejoy.
I 2nd this

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06-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
I 2nd this
3rded

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06-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #72
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Lovejoy's gone. We'll see if Shero has the balls to move Martin.

I wouldn't mind seeing Despres kept down and Strait/Bortuzzo given a shot rotating with Engelland. Let nisky be the #4 and see where we are mid-season. I'd say keep Martin if the offer isnt there, but I see too many teams with cap space and horrid blue lines.

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06-19-2012, 01:26 PM
  #73
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It has to be Martin. I'd be freaking shocked. He was benched (i don't remember hearing about an injury) to end the series and we played much better defensively. We need defensive dmen and we saw what defensive dmen like Scuds do. They win championships.

I'm saying Lovejoy and Martin.

So HA! Take that Zip!

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06-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #74
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Damn you.... DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!



Who is going to trade for Lovejoy?? Isn't he more likely to be sent down than he is to be traded (I assume like Strait and Bortuzzo he'd have to pass through waivers - his salary is the same either way)? I can't even see him commanding a 5th or 6th round draft pick.

Ben "The Reverend" Lovejoy was traded today to Jokerit for potential future considerations... potentially.

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06-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #75
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I didn't...umm.. think of that one.

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