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Offseason Discussion VI: Well that got out of hand (UPDATED contract chart in Post 1)

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06-24-2012, 09:20 AM
  #726
Coach John McGuirk
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Get Kennedy out of there and replace him with Setoguchi.
I wish...

I'd love to send a package of Kennedy++ for Setoguchi, but it'll never happen.

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06-24-2012, 09:26 AM
  #727
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Yeah our D is just unbelievable for years. Someone is definitely going away at some point in a trade.

Letang
Orpik
Martin
Engelland
---------
Niskanen(?)
---------
Lovejoy (byhbye!)

That's six already or five depending what happens. Next in line is Despres but Morrow is better, or at least will be(?) so.. we are so stocked. But I'll but next ones in my order:
---------
Despres (deserves it and could be better option than Morrow at this point.)
Morrow (some time in AHL will do good, but as I see it, he's ready.)
--------
Strait (would be reliable choice as bottom pairing guy, even he is smallish, but I don't care about that one bit.)
--------
Dumoulin (don't know much about him, but he's propably somewhere here(?))
--------
Bortuzzo (I'll but Strait over him. It's just how I see it.)
--------
Harrington/Maatta (I think they're pretty evenly here. But everyone below Despres and Morrow are very close for taking a spot in our team. Depending Niskanen/Suter signing and/or will Martin go.


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06-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
I wish...

I'd love to send a package of Kennedy++ for Setoguchi, but it'll never happen.
Kennedy and Martin?

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06-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Yeah our D is just unbelievable for years. Someone is definitely going away at some point in a trade.

Letang
Orpik
Martin
Engelland
---------
Niskanen(?)
---------
That's five already or four depending what happens. Next in line is Despres but Morrow is better, or at least will be(?) so.. we are so stocked. But I'll but next ones in my order:
---------
Despres (deserves it and could be better option than Morrow at this point.)
Morrow (some time in AHL will do good, but as I see it, he's ready.)
--------
Strait (would be reliable choice as bottom pairing guy, even he is smallish, but I don't care about that one bit.)
--------
Dumoulin (don't know much about him, but he's propably somewhere here(?))
--------
Bortuzzo (I'll but Strait over him. It's just how I see it.)
--------
Harrington/Maatta (I think they're pretty evenly here. But everyone below Despres and Morrow are very close for taking a spot in our team. Depending Niskanen/Suter signing and/or will Martin go.
From all reports I've heard, Dumoulin is just about as NHL ready as Despres. I think any of Despres, Dumoulin and Morrow could step in as the bottom 6 guy and surpass Niskanen by the time the playoffs roll around. I expect Dumoulin and Morrow to start in the AHL since they haven't been playing the Pens system while Despres has a year of experience with it. Honestly, if we only had any 1 of the three, I think that one would make the team out of camp.

It really wouldn't shock me to end the season with two of them up. I could see whichever start in the AHL coming up for an injury and outperforming Niskanen, Martin or any other d-man we may end up signing other than someone like Sutter.

Not all three though. No way we go in to the playoffs with more than 2 rookies on D.


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06-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #730
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Dumoulin has yet to play a pro game though, Despres has and looked really good in most of them. Not knocking Dumoulin at all. Very excited about his future especially if he really is as ready as Despres.

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06-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #731
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Dumoulin has yet to play a pro game though, Despres has and looked really good in most of them. Not knocking Dumoulin at all. Very excited about his future especially if he really is as ready as Despres.
I think he'll be the first call-up. Despres will get the spot even if they are completely equal just because he has experience with the team. And I doubt we have two open spots at camp barring an injury. And I think its more or less a lock that Strait or Bortuzzo is the 7th with the other being traded or waived.

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06-24-2012, 09:41 AM
  #732
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Dumoulin is NHL ready imo. He is a very solid dman. Could play a big role in 5-6 spot. He is also very good on the PK and in his own end.

I would move TK!

I would like to see the pens ice a 3rd line of MC- BS- PD or ET- BS- PD. SOLID 3rd line.

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06-24-2012, 09:46 AM
  #733
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I think it's safe to say with his pedigree, Dumoulin projects ahead of Strait and Bortuzzo (in a vacuum, not considering contract situations). Not sure how he will compare to Despres, Morrow, Harrington except that he's probably more defensively oriented than all of them. If he could make the team this fall an improve our PK, address our lack of a big defensive D... that would really make Shero look smart, but more than likely he'll spend most of the year in WBS with Morrow learning the system and pro game from there, getting occasional injury call ups. Guessing they'll both see pre-season games, one or two at the start and maybe 3-5 games at random times during the season. Next year is a different story potentially depending on how rapidly they progress in WBS.

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06-24-2012, 09:47 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Aarow View Post
Dumoulin is NHL ready imo. He is a very solid dman. Could play a big role in 5-6 spot. He is also very good on the PK and in his own end.

I would move TK!

I would like to see the pens ice a 3rd line of MC- BS- PD or ET- BS- PD. SOLID 3rd line.
I agree. I think we'd see the first option early in the year but I think we all hope to see ET force his way up to the third line.

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06-24-2012, 10:13 AM
  #735
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Can't wait till prospect camp.

But what concerns me the most is the type of players we have at back end. most of our biggest D-prospects are offensive minded. So let me put it this way:

Morrow - Letang (both like to join rushes and bring the puck up, so will they take turns?
Pouliot - Despres (could be very nice pairing at some point. both French-Canadian but this pair would have almost the same problem?)
Maatta - Harrington (this pairing could be most balanced 3rd pair)
Dumoulin (where the heck this guy fits?)

I mean.. these are most gifted guys of our D-prospects but just maybe half of them actually will see time in our roster. I say at least 2 of those gets traded soon. Maybe one this summer and other one next year.

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06-24-2012, 10:31 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Can't wait till prospect camp.

But what concerns me the most is the type of players we have at back end. most of our biggest D-prospects are offensive minded. So let me put it this way:

Morrow - Letang (both like to join rushes and bring the puck up, so will they take turns?
Pouliot - Despres (could be very nice pairing at some point. both French-Canadian but this pair would have almost the same problem?)
Maatta - Harrington (this pairing could be most balanced 3rd pair)
Dumoulin (where the heck this guy fits?)

I mean.. these are most gifted guys of our D-prospects but just maybe half of them actually will see time in our roster. I say at least 2 of those gets traded soon. Maybe one this summer and other one next year.
Despres is pretty well balanced. He is definitely very capable defensively. I don't think he'd have much problem being the safer half of a pairing down the line. Dumoulin should also be a good defensive guy that could slot in the 2nd or third pairing. I could see one or two of the more offensive guys getting the Goligoski treatment. Come up long enough to get acclimated to the league and show off what they can do before getting traded. Possibly even traded before that. Isn't Maatta supposed to be a bit more balanced too? Sort of a Despres type potentially? Pouliott is the only one that is pretty much pure offense as far as I know.

Either way, I doubt we ever see all of them on the team at the same time. They should at least take away a bit of leverage from Letang at contract talks. Hopefully Morrow is up full time by then. I don't want him to be able to walk in to Shero's office holding the "I'm the only decent puck mover you have" card. Worst case scenario we have guys that can replace the offensive part of what he brings if talks go south with him. Not that I expect them to, but its never bad to have a backup plan.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 06-24-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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06-24-2012, 10:35 AM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Can't wait till prospect camp.

But what concerns me the most is the type of players we have at back end. most of our biggest D-prospects are offensive minded. So let me put it this way:

Morrow - Letang (both like to join rushes and bring the puck up, so will they take turns?
Pouliot - Despres (could be very nice pairing at some point. both French-Canadian but this pair would have almost the same problem?)
Maatta - Harrington (this pairing could be most balanced 3rd pair)
Dumoulin (where the heck this guy fits?)

I mean.. these are most gifted guys of our D-prospects but just maybe half of them actually will see time in our roster. I say at least 2 of those gets traded soon. Maybe one this summer and other one next year.
I wouldn't trade Dumoulin and for all of those wondering where he would fit, I'd say he would be in the top 4. He plays a shutdown defense role and so he'd be a perfect fit with a really offensively minded D like Morrow.

Despres-Letang
Dumoulin-Morrow
Harrington-Maatta-Pouliot???? Only 2 FORWARDS!!!

Every single one of our prospects deserves a top 4 but only 4 can get in and Leatng is not moving down no matter what. With that being said, Morrow/Despres/Dumoulin have the 3 other spots IMO since they all have the skill with Dumoulin being a defensive stud and Morrow/Letang being the offensive stud. Despres is that middle guy that can do both. So left is Harrington and Maatta and Pouliot which I am not sure how we would accommodate.
The only

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06-24-2012, 10:35 AM
  #738
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From all reports I've heard, Dumoulin is just about as NHL ready as Despres. I think any of Despres, Dumoulin and Morrow could step in as the bottom 6 guy and surpass Niskanen by the time the playoffs roll around. I expect Dumoulin and Morrow to start in the AHL since they haven't been playing the Pens system while Despres has a year of experience with it. Honestly, if we only had any 1 of the three, I think that one would make the team out of camp.

It really wouldn't shock me to end the season with two of them up. I could see whichever start in the AHL coming up for an injury and outperforming Niskanen, Martin or any other d-man we may end up signing other than someone like Sutter.

Not all three though. No way we go in to the playoffs with more than 2 rookies on D.
Going into the playoffs with even one Rookie is a high risk. Doubt they'll ever go into it with two on defense. Plus as long as WBS is not playing in their own playoffs, some of those kids will be alternates waiting in case of injury.

The Pens went into 2007/08 playoffs with one and he eventually got sat. Who was he?



-Kris Letang.


You can only shelter them for so long and not wear out your top defenders. The one Rookie who is a #6/#7 should be switched in and out with a proven vet. They can't rely on the top two pairings to take the brunt of the load or you will see some serious kinks in the armor. If you can't count on your bottom pairing for 10/12 minutes why even dress them.

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06-24-2012, 10:45 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Going into the playoffs with even one Rookie is a high risk. Doubt they'll ever go into it with two on defense. Plus as long as WBS is not playing in their own playoffs, some of those kids will be alternates waiting in case of injury.

The Pens went into 2007/08 playoffs with one and he eventually got sat. Who was he?



-Kris Letang.


You can only shelter them for so long and not wear out your top defenders. The one Rookie who is a #6/#7 should be switched in and out with a proven vet. They can't rely on the top two pairings to take the brunt of the load or you will see some serious kinks in the armor. If you can't count on your bottom pairing for 10/12 minutes why even dress them.
Fair point. But Despres also has an extra year of pro level hockey than Letang did at that point. Not to mention he's considerably bigger than 2007-2008 Letang was. I will be absolutely shocked if at least one rookie doesn't play every game in the coming playoffs. I also expect our number 7 to be a rookie, which does support the argument against more than one rookie in the top 6 I guess. But if they are outplaying someone else, being a rookie shouldn't be a reason to sit someone. And being a rookie doesn't mean you can't play significant meaningful minutes even in the playoffs. Look at Voynov playing twenty minutes a night in the Finals for the Kings.


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06-24-2012, 10:54 AM
  #740
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We still have too many defensemen imo. One should be moved ASAP.

Martin, Orpik, Letang, Lovejoy, Engelland, (Niskanen)
Then we have Bortuzzo and Strait (who have to clear wavivers, wich they wont) and Despres firghting for the 7th spot

That also leaves no room for any other players to make the team out of camp (Morrow, Doumolin etc)

I think shero should choose one of Bortuzzo and strait and trade the other. Lovejoy should also be moved imo.
Martin - i dont know... Now when Z is gone i have a feeling hell be in the starting lineup to start the season.

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06-24-2012, 10:57 AM
  #741
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We still have too many defensemen imo. One should be moved ASAP.

Martin, Orpik, Letang, Lovejoy, Engelland, (Niskanen)
Then we have Bortuzzo and Strait (who have to clear wavivers, wich they wont) and Despres firghting for the 7th spot

That also leaves no room for any other players to make the team out of camp (Morrow, Doumolin etc)

I think shero should choose one of Bortuzzo and strait and trade the other. Lovejoy should also be moved imo.
Martin - i dont know... Now when Z is gone i have a feeling hell be in the starting lineup to start the season.
I think those two things are all but guaranteed to happen. I have no clue what I think will happen with Martin at this point though.

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06-24-2012, 11:04 AM
  #742
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We still have too many defensemen imo. One should be moved ASAP.

Martin, Orpik, Letang, Lovejoy, Engelland, (Niskanen)
Then we have Bortuzzo and Strait (who have to clear wavivers, wich they wont) and Despres firghting for the 7th spot

That also leaves no room for any other players to make the team out of camp (Morrow, Doumolin etc)

I think shero should choose one of Bortuzzo and strait and trade the other. Lovejoy should also be moved imo.
Martin - i dont know... Now when Z is gone i have a feeling hell be in the starting lineup to start the season.
I already traded him in my mind. I SO forgot he was still with us.

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06-24-2012, 11:05 AM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Fair point. But Despres also has an extra year of pro level hockey than Letang did at that point. Not to mention he's considerably bigger than 2007-2008 Letang was. I will be absolutely shocked if at least one rookie doesn't play every game in the coming playoffs. I also expect our number 7 to be a rookie, which does support the argument against more than one rookie in the top 6 I guess. But if they are outplaying someone else, being a rookie shouldn't be a reason to sit someone. And being a rookie doesn't mean you can't play significant meaningful minutes even in the playoffs. Look at Voynov playing twenty minutes a night in the Finals for the Kings.
True, but look at those vets surrounding him. Makes it a bit more easier to slot him in, no?

Do you see the same scenario here? Not yet.

I'm only advocating in not having more than one here.

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06-24-2012, 11:13 AM
  #744
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This feels a bit like speaking ill of the dead ... and I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to start a smear campaign after a player has left ... not the case at all, because I truly appreciate everything that Staal did in a Pens sweater and wish him all the best with his new team and new wife ... but ...

In light of comments made in his interview after the trade, do you think Staal's discontent with his role after Sid returned is the cause of the Pens crash and burn?
The team continued to do really well while Sid was still on a line with Cookie and TK, but when he and Gronk switched places, that's when things started to go south. And if you think about Staal's performance on the PK (and just the PK) during the first round, it was less than stellar ... which could have been due to him not being happy about being put into a less offensive role.

Obviously, (see what I did there ) there were other issues, and maybe saying this was the cause of the team break down at the end of the season is an overstatement, maybe instead the proverbial 'straw that broke the camels back'?

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06-24-2012, 11:13 AM
  #745
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True, but look at those vets surrounding him. Makes it a bit more easier to slot him in, no?

Do you see the same scenario here? Not yet.

I'm only advocating in not having more than one here.
I see a scenario where Despres will have absolutely no problems. I don't think he'll need much insulating.

Only one rookie is certainly the most likely scenario. I'm just saying I wouldn't be completely shocked to see two. I really think if, say, Niskanen goes down we could see Morrow come in and actually make us a better team.

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06-24-2012, 11:14 AM
  #746
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This feels a bit like speaking ill of the dead ... and I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to start a smear campaign after a player has left ... not the case at all, because I truly appreciate everything that Staal did in a Pens sweater and wish him all the best with his new team and new wife ... but ...

In light of comments made in his interview after the trade, do you think Staal's discontent with his role after Sid returned is the cause of the Pens crash and burn?
The team continued to do really well while Sid was still on a line with Cookie and TK, but when he and Gronk switched places, that's when things started to go south. And if you think about Staal's performance on the PK (and just the PK) during the first round, it was less than stellar ... which could have been due to him not being happy about being put into a less offensive role.

Obviously, (see what I did there ) there were other issues, and maybe saying this was the cause of the team break down at the end of the season is an overstatement, maybe instead the proverbial 'straw that broke the camels back'?
If Staal hadn't been possibly our best player in the series, I think you'd be on to something. But he was. So I have a hard time seeing that being the problem. If it was, it didn't show too much in his own play. I will say though, that when he got put back on the third line he didn't go back to playing like he used to as a shutdown guy. He kept playing like a guy that just figured out he can actually score goals.

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06-24-2012, 11:15 AM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Can't wait till prospect camp.

But what concerns me the most is the type of players we have at back end. most of our biggest D-prospects are offensive minded. So let me put it this way:

Morrow - Letang (both like to join rushes and bring the puck up, so will they take turns?
Pouliot - Despres (could be very nice pairing at some point. both French-Canadian but this pair would have almost the same problem?)
Maatta - Harrington (this pairing could be most balanced 3rd pair)
Dumoulin (where the heck this guy fits?)

I mean.. these are most gifted guys of our D-prospects but just maybe half of them actually will see time in our roster. I say at least 2 of those gets traded soon. Maybe one this summer and other one next year.

Suter & Weber have to fit in there somewhere as well

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06-24-2012, 11:16 AM
  #748
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I think what I also like about Sutter is that he brings that **** stirring element. We needed a few of those guys. Staal is hard to play against, just in a different way. Sutter can knock guys of their game.

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06-24-2012, 11:22 AM
  #749
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Suter & Weber have to fit in there somewhere as well
I don't know about Weber but Suter is a possibility that I would like, hopefully not at the expense of Parise.

TBH, I think we are all getting excited and this cap dump was to get Whitney and Parenteau? I am gonna stick with Whitney and Parenteau as Shero's plan so I am not disappointed if it doesn't happen.

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06-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  #750
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I don't know about Weber but Suter is a possibility that I would like, hopefully not at the expense of Parise.

TBH, I think we are all getting excited and this cap dump was to get Whitney and Parenteau? I am gonna stick with Whitney and Parenteau as Shero's plan so I am not disappointed if it doesn't happen.
I don't think I could be more disappointed than I would be if we in fact picked up PAP. Leino v2.0

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