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06-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
So because the team has a new owner who has deep pockets that makes it acceptable for them to waste money and cap space that could be better used otherwise? I'm glad you're not working for my hockey department. That's still a $900,000 investment, it isn't monopoly money.
Yes the new owner has deep enough pockets to take a minor 900k risk on a guy who might end up being one of the teams top 13 forwards. Since the cap will absolutely not be an issue, what do you propose the 900k would be useful for other than just staying in the owners pockets? I also think if he did make to the AHL club Tom Wandell would be an important and productive member of that roster which is not without value.

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06-26-2012, 11:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Yes the new owner has deep enough pockets to take a minor 900k risk on a guy who might end up being one of the teams top 13 forwards. Since the cap will absolutely not be an issue, what do you propose the 900k would be useful for other than just staying in the owners pockets? I also think if he did make to the AHL club Tom Wandell would be an important and productive member of that roster which is not without value.
I propose they spend it on another player, possibly one who is in a similar boat with another organization, whom they believe might actually develop into a player for them or perhaps they buy a few promising AHL players for less and put the balance into improving the scouting department. Maybe they upgrade the practice facilities, or add amenities on the team's charter plane.

While you may not get a lot of NHL-ready talent for $900,000 and it likely won't be a make or break cap number though if the CBA changes, it may be a contract you don't want to be holding that money can buy a lot of real-world benefit spent in other areas.

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06-26-2012, 11:30 AM
  #78
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Yeah, let's invest Wandell's massive salary into moist towelettes for the plane!

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06-26-2012, 03:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I propose they spend it on another player, possibly one who is in a similar boat with another organization, whom they believe might actually develop into a player for them or perhaps they buy a few promising AHL players for less and put the balance into improving the scouting department. Maybe they upgrade the practice facilities, or add amenities on the team's charter plane.

While you may not get a lot of NHL-ready talent for $900,000 and it likely won't be a make or break cap number though if the CBA changes, it may be a contract you don't want to be holding that money can buy a lot of real-world benefit spent in other areas.
I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Players have made far more in the AHL before. And considering we'll be nowhere near the cap ceiling, 900K for a year should be absolutely no issue at all. If you want "other assets" just add another 900K, not take it away from another player. Why can't we have both?

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06-26-2012, 04:05 PM
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I am serious, $900,000 is a very good chunk of change for the AHL and if Wandell isn't in their plans for the future, I'd rather give his ice time to someone who is.

That may be a small number to some of you people who don't have anything real invested, but it's a significant amount of change that could be invested somewhere else... not to mention, Wandell counts against the number of contracts you're carrying.

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06-26-2012, 04:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I am serious, $900,000 is a very good chunk of change for the AHL and if Wandell isn't in their plans for the future, I'd rather give his ice time to someone who is.

That may be a small number to some of you people who don't have anything real invested, but it's a significant amount of change that could be invested somewhere else... not to mention, Wandell counts against the number of contracts you're carrying.
Who do you think is NHL ready and in the Stars plan for the future but will possibly lose out on ice time to Tom Wandell?

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06-26-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I am serious, $900,000 is a very good chunk of change for the AHL and if Wandell isn't in their plans for the future, I'd rather give his ice time to someone who is.

That may be a small number to some of you people who don't have anything real invested, but it's a significant amount of change that could be invested somewhere else... not to mention, Wandell counts against the number of contracts you're carrying.
To us, maybe, but to a billionaire, that's absolutely nothing.

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06-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
I am serious, $900,000 is a very good chunk of change for the AHL and if Wandell isn't in their plans for the future, I'd rather give his ice time to someone who is.

That may be a small number to some of you people who don't have anything real invested, but it's a significant amount of change that could be invested somewhere else... not to mention, Wandell counts against the number of contracts you're carrying.
If we're so worried about number of contracts, then we shouldn't of signed Wathier.

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06-26-2012, 05:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
If we're so worried about number of contracts, then we shouldn't of signed Wathier.
or qualified Gazdic

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06-26-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
or qualified Gazdic
Noooooooo don't hate on Gazdic. He had 23 points in the AHL this year. While being an all around tough guy and engaged in off ice public relations functions.

Dude owns, I don't really think he's the guy you should hate on. That would be Godard.

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06-26-2012, 05:17 PM
  #86
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Noooooooo don't hate on Gazdic. He had 23 points in the AHL this year. While being an all around tough guy and engaged in off ice public relations functions.

Dude owns, I don't really think he's the guy you should hate on. That would be Godard.
I am not hating on him just dont think he has much chance to be more productive to the Dallas Stars than Wandell does. He is pretty much a guy we hope ends up as good as Wathier.

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06-26-2012, 06:20 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
So because the team has a new owner who has deep pockets that makes it acceptable for them to waste money and cap space that could be better used otherwise? I'm glad you're not working for my hockey department. That's still a $900,000 investment, it isn't monopoly money.
That's a red herring. It's not 900k of "waste", at most it's 350-400k of waste. The cheapest in-house replacement contract is a hair over 500k and that's for a guy like Morin who isn't even technically a prospect but is an organizational type player. On the other hand Chiasson for example, would earn 900k in the NHL this year.

This is a complete non-issue. The thing that Heika argued that I find to be stupid was his "make space for prospects" angle. You don't need to make space on your 4th line you need your prospects to demand a spot in the lineup (hopefully in the top 9) with their play. One could make a strong argument that having a player who the organization thinks won't hurt them but won't actively help them on the roster to give the prospects well needed seasoning time in the AHL is exactly what's happening here, and is a sound decision.

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06-26-2012, 06:25 PM
  #88
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Seriously, amenities for the plane? My mind was just blown.

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06-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Seriously, amenities for the plane? My mind was just blown.
I personally feel that money would be best spent by awarding it to a Californian who is a Dallas stars fan and has a picture of Susanna Hoffs on their HF profile.

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06-26-2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
To us, maybe, but to a billionaire, that's absolutely nothing.
That's a horrible way to look at it. Billionaires don't become billionaires by having the attitude that 900k is "absolutely nothing." Owners (pick a sport) don't typically like wasting money, ever.

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06-26-2012, 07:40 PM
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That's a horrible way to look at it. Billionaires don't become billionaires by having the attitude that 900k is "absolutely nothing." Owners (pick a sport) don't typically like wasting money, ever.
Yet they swallow money on countless occasions to take risks. Guys are bought out and new guys are signed. Avery was paid to GTFO. etc, etc. Yeah, these guys are good with money but at the same time if owning teams was about the business venture first and having fun with a toy second then most of these guys wouldn't own teams; they're not typically very good investments. I'm not saying to be frivolous but everything is relative and we're talking about a player making less than double the league MINIMUM. Chrisssakes, if an owner isn't willing to deal with something like that then he bought the wrong toy.

And yes, when we're talking about billionaires with a "B" 900k is probably a lot more like a few hundred bucks to the rest of us.

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06-26-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by theheadmata View Post
That's a horrible way to look at it. Billionaires don't become billionaires by having the attitude that 900k is "absolutely nothing." Owners (pick a sport) don't typically like wasting money, ever.
900k for a single billionaire is less than 1/1000 of his wealth, for a multibillionaire like our owner its even less. I think he'll manage.

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06-26-2012, 11:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by theheadmata View Post
That's a horrible way to look at it. Billionaires don't become billionaires by having the attitude that 900k is "absolutely nothing." Owners (pick a sport) don't typically like wasting money, ever.
As others have noted, at most he costs 900k-minimum NHL salary around 500k, since I have zero confidence he will wind up left out by UFAs/prospects. Plus we may need some actual cap hits to reach the floor if there is one.

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06-27-2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Yet they swallow money on countless occasions to take risks. Guys are bought out and new guys are signed. Avery was paid to GTFO. etc, etc.
And haven't we been complaining about the money that Avery decision cost the Stars over the past couple years? The goal should be to try to make decisions that don't end up costing money because they were the wrong ones. Yes, it happens, but if they were hesitant to send the qualifying offer, maybe that should be enough pause to consider not sending it.

Could you be right about him being someone they want in the AHL to improve the quality of guys others play with? Perhaps. Do I think there are guys who may be cheaper or better options to do that at this time? Probably.

As for the plane, amenities might not be the right word... but I'm going under the impression the hockey department has X dollars allocated by Gaglardi to spend how Nieuwendyk sees fit to win hockey games. Dallas is the most travelled team in the NHL, by far, and I think if they weren't, they make the playoffs the past two years. If there's a way to reduce time in the air, to make charter flights more comfortable or at better time, whatever, it's worth the investment more than it may be to spend on payroll. Also, teams that spend money on more scouts, more capologists, etc. to help gain advantages in other ways can get more bang for their budget.

You're right that Gaglardi isn't going to nickel and dime things, not by any means, but he isn't going to get to the cap overnight to open the purse strings for bad signings either. As much as I like Wandell's skating and skill, I'm not sure the organization truly believes he isn't the latter right now and if that's the case, there are other ways to spend money on the ice and off it to get results.

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06-27-2012, 12:32 AM
  #95
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Well they freed up a lot of cash trading Ribeiro so they could splurge on Wandell.

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06-27-2012, 12:54 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
And haven't we been complaining about the money that Avery decision cost the Stars over the past couple years? The goal should be to try to make decisions that don't end up costing money because they were the wrong ones. Yes, it happens, but if they were hesitant to send the qualifying offer, maybe that should be enough pause to consider not sending it.

Could you be right about him being someone they want in the AHL to improve the quality of guys others play with? Perhaps. Do I think there are guys who may be cheaper or better options to do that at this time? Probably.

As for the plane, amenities might not be the right word... but I'm going under the impression the hockey department has X dollars allocated by Gaglardi to spend how Nieuwendyk sees fit to win hockey games. Dallas is the most travelled team in the NHL, by far, and I think if they weren't, they make the playoffs the past two years. If there's a way to reduce time in the air, to make charter flights more comfortable or at better time, whatever, it's worth the investment more than it may be to spend on payroll. Also, teams that spend money on more scouts, more capologists, etc. to help gain advantages in other ways can get more bang for their budget.

You're right that Gaglardi isn't going to nickel and dime things, not by any means, but he isn't going to get to the cap overnight to open the purse strings for bad signings either. As much as I like Wandell's skating and skill, I'm not sure the organization truly believes he isn't the latter right now and if that's the case, there are other ways to spend money — on the ice and off it — to get results.
Avery was a pain because of the internal cap from the lenders.

I am not convinced that there are better options in free agency. The team may sign a few guys, but not enough to push Wandell off of the NHL roster.

LA was the most traveled team last season, and ANA was 2nd. This upcoming season Dallas will travel the most, but their year to year total will only go up a few hundred miles.

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06-27-2012, 12:58 AM
  #97
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Dallas is the most travelled team in the NHL, by far, and I think if they weren't, they make the playoffs the past two years.
You're fooling yourself with that statement.

We were 3rd in 08-09, 2nd in 09-10, 8th in 10-11, and 5th in 11-12.

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06-27-2012, 01:35 AM
  #98
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Yes, it happens, but if they were hesitant to send the qualifying offer, maybe that should be enough pause to consider not sending it.
They did consider not sending it. They sent it anyway.

This decision is basically the hockey equivalent of deciding to order a coke at Whataburger instead of a water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverSports View Post
As for the plane, amenities might not be the right word... but I'm going under the impression the hockey department has X dollars allocated by Gaglardi to spend how Nieuwendyk sees fit to win hockey games. Dallas is the most travelled team in the NHL, by far, and I think if they weren't, they make the playoffs the past two years. If there's a way to reduce time in the air, to make charter flights more comfortable or at better time, whatever, it's worth the investment more than it may be to spend on payroll. Also, teams that spend money on more scouts, more capologists, etc. to help gain advantages in other ways can get more bang for their budget.
I'm sure they're flying as quickly and as comfortably as possible.

We're seriously looking in every nook and cranny to find stuff to ***** about if a player whose salary is less than 2% of the team's payroll stirs this kind of fervor.

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06-27-2012, 02:01 AM
  #99
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Gaglardi is not concerned with individual contracts, just the overall payroll. While it's true that billionaires don't become billionaires by throwing away $900k like it's nothing, they also don't become billionaires by micromanaging every facet of their businesses. They find smarter people to do that for them. The owner must trust his GM, just like the GM must trust his scouts, and the scouts must trust their bubbling cauldrons.

Having said that, Wandell's contract isn't "nothing," but it also isn't a significant concern as long as the payroll stays under control. If expenses do get out of hand, the conversation between owner and GM won't be about Wandell, it'll be about the expenses.

Finally, the gripe with Wandell is once again related to this fascination some people have (or all people some of the time) with the unknown, with potential, etc. Wandell is a mistake because there could be a better player in his spot. There are free agents, or prospects in the system, or trade targets, or whatever that are blocked from the roster because of this Wandell guy! Well, wait. They're not really blocked at all. JN can still sign, trade, promote whomever he wants. In the event that someone does prove to be a better fourth line forward, he can trade, waive, or flat out release Wandell if he needs to. The worse case scenario is Wandell plays on the fourth line and we avoid deteriorating the roster by having someone even worse in that spot. You're paying 900k for a safety net and for internal competition. It's not the best (ie Eriksson) way to spend money, but it's far from the worst.

And even still, Wandell's not that bad as a specialty/utility forward. He's pretty good at ending his shifts in the offensive zone. That's a valuable skill. And he draws more penalties than he takes.*

*last year it was even, but he was only called for 8 penalties, and I distinctly remember at least four of them being absolutely bewildering phantom calls.

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06-27-2012, 02:21 AM
  #100
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Am I still the only one worried he'll try and put him on the 2nd line? His little stint there might have meant more to GMJN than it did to us.

Maybe I'm just really tired, though. Most of my recent posts have been garbage, might as well add this one to it.

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