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Lidstrom vs Pronger

View Poll Results: If you could pick 1 player in their prime for 1 cup run who would it be?
Pronger 57 32.57%
Lidstrom 118 67.43%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
You can't win seven Norris trophies in one Stanley Cup run...
You can win a Conn Smythe, which Lidstrom has also done. Pronger hasn't.

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06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darglor View Post
For 1 cup run, both playing like they did at their peak, who I take would depend on what the officiating is like. Pre-lockout style, I'd take Pronger. Couple years post lockout, Lidstrom. Now, Pronger again.
Theoretically, that makes sense, but given what Chris Pronger accomplished immediately following the lockout...

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06-19-2012, 08:50 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
You can win a Conn Smythe, which Lidstrom has also done. Pronger hasn't.
Cam Ward > Dominik Hasek

I was pointing out that he wasn't answering the question. And don't pretend that Chris Pronger didn't have a pretty good 2006, 2007, and 2010 even without a shiny trophy.

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06-19-2012, 09:22 PM
  #54
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Lidstrom

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06-19-2012, 09:51 PM
  #55
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Lidstrom

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06-19-2012, 09:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Theoretically, that makes sense, but given what Chris Pronger accomplished immediately following the lockout...
Heh, yeah. Pronger was significantly better in the playoffs after the lockout than before it (suspensions excluded).

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06-19-2012, 09:58 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Cam Ward > Dominik Hasek

I was pointing out that he wasn't answering the question. And don't pretend that Chris Pronger didn't have a pretty good 2006, 2007, and 2010 even without a shiny trophy.
Pronger has no regular season hardware to say hes better than Lidstrom, and none to rank him better in playoffs. Haseks throttles Ward in the regular season but is lacking in playoffs

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06-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #58
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I would have to take Lidstrom, though it is very close.

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06-19-2012, 10:54 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Pronger has no regular season hardware to say hes better than Lidstrom, and none to rank him better in playoffs. Haseks throttles Ward in the regular season but is lacking in playoffs
Where is Lidstrom hiding his Hart?

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06-20-2012, 10:12 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemfel View Post
The same "fact" worked to his disadvantage in the 90s, when no "soft Euro" was allowed to win the Norris.
that is true.
but I don't think the amount of norris trophys won by each player means anything.

I do like lidstrom and I think he's on of the best defensemen I've ever seen, but to me there is no way this is an "and it isn't even close" argument.
Pronger is a hall of fame player, who is extremely talented, can carry a team and puts the fear of god into the players he goes up against.
I don't see how anyone can't admit that there is a a fair argument to Pronger being a correct chocie for this poll. (despite the fact I dislike him and think he is a d-bag. lol)

I think Lidsdromis doing so much better in this poll due to detroit fans voting and the fact Lidsdrom is nice and pronger is a jerk.

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06-20-2012, 11:15 AM
  #61
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Depends on what kind of team I have.

If I have a tough team that wins battles against the boards, I want Pronger. If I have a fast and high scoring team I want a smarter Lidstrom with the great breakout passing.

It would be dumb to have Pronger on the Wings instead of Lidstrom, while Pronger would be more effective than Lidstrom on a team like Nashville.

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06-20-2012, 11:17 AM
  #62
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Pronger, he was a BEAST for the Oil in '06. Hes just a dick to play against compared to Lidstrom.

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06-20-2012, 11:28 AM
  #63
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Pronger, he'll leave a trail of people in the hospital and he'll bring you to a finals at least once.

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06-20-2012, 03:35 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
I think Lidsdromis doing so much better in this poll due to detroit fans voting and the fact Lidsdrom is nice and pronger is a jerk.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that we're comparing one of the Top-5 best players of all-time with a player who probably wouldn't make Top-10 of the decade?

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06-20-2012, 04:06 PM
  #65
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For me it depends on the rest of team. If the team plays puck posession game, relies heavily on they're pp I would probably take Lids. If team was like Edmonton in 2006, I would go with Pronger, assuming he would stay healthy all the way.

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06-20-2012, 04:50 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by FINISHYOURMILK View Post
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that we're comparing one of the Top-5 best players of all-time with a player who probably wouldn't make Top-10 of the decade?
glad you had the sarcastic smilie or I would have taken you at face value for the pronger comment. lol
I was ready to snap.

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06-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Where is Lidstrom hiding his Hart?
You think one hart and one norris trumps that many Norris trophies?

And for all the people saying Pronger puts guys in the hospital, same thing was said about Lindros. In the finals before Lidstrom hit his prime he held Lindros to one goal in the entire series and that came with 13 seconds left in the very last game that was already out of reach

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06-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Cam Ward > Dominik Hasek

I was pointing out that he wasn't answering the question. And don't pretend that Chris Pronger didn't have a pretty good 2006, 2007, and 2010 even without a shiny trophy.
Lol. Yeah, Cam Ward > Hasek. Typical HF going to the extreme to try and prove a ridiculous point. So predictable.

I won't pretend that Chris Pronger didn't have good runs, but I'm also not gonna pretend that Lidstrom didn't have the best playoff run of the two.

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06-21-2012, 12:33 AM
  #69
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Oh geez. Pronger, assuming he doesn't get suspended.

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06-21-2012, 12:58 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
You think one hart and one norris trumps that many Norris trophies?
One player was the league MVP at one point in his career and the other was voted the best defensemen a slew of times. I wouldn't say the Hart "trumps" the Norris'es but when we're talking about which player you'd rather have for one small window of time it makes a difference.

I like Lidstrom as much as the next guy but at some point the collective knee pads have come out for him in full force to an insane degree. Phenomenal career, but like I already mentioned when I agreed with the other poster, put him in St. Louis, San Jose, or Dallas his entire career and he wouldn't be nearly as highly regarded as he is. I don't expect a Wings fan to agree with that but there's a certain something that playing for an original six or Canadian team does for a player's reputation, which begets legacy, etc. Put Pronger in Detroit for his entire career and there's no way in hell he only has the one Norris.

Also, Lidstrom's Norris count should have a tiny asterisk as that last one was inarguably a reputation award rather than one based on merit.

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06-21-2012, 01:11 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
I won't pretend that Chris Pronger didn't have good runs, but I'm also not gonna pretend that Lidstrom didn't have the best playoff run of the two.
Pronger's 2006, 2007 and 2010 runs were each better than Lidstrom's 2002 run. Not all Conn Smythe fields are created equal.

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06-21-2012, 05:06 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Pronger's 2006, 2007 and 2010 runs were each better than Lidstrom's 2002 run. Not all Conn Smythe fields are created equal.
Pronger's 2007 (suspended twice) and 2010 (terrible in the deciding two games of the finals) runs certainly were not. His 2006 might have been though

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06-21-2012, 07:19 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pronger's 2007 (suspended twice) and 2010 (terrible in the deciding two games of the finals) runs certainly were not. His 2006 might have been though
No, but he said they are, so it's fact!

Funny seeing how many people spouting their opinions as fact.

Nick's generally thought of by hockey people around here as a top five defenseman of all time. He dominated a prime Pronger in Norris wins and Finalist standings for the award. He won four Cups to Prongers one. Is the only defenseman to score over 1000 points and not play a large chunk or primarily their careers in the 80's.

The only thing Pronger has over Lidstrom is the Hart, for which Lidstrom came fourth one year.

Numbers and trophies show that Nick is better.

I did get a kick out of the guy saying Pronger never played for any good teams like the Wings... Considering they(the Blues) had something like a 26 straight playoff streak and were a powerhouse that had seasons comparable to the Wings' in the late 90's early 2000's, that's just revisionist history. Everyone likes to act like the Wings won with all star teams, yet the Cups in 97 and 98 the Wings finished 3rd and 5th in the peague respectively... And 2008 personel wise up front was no all star team.

Also, yeah, Lidstrom totally wasn't ever the best player on his team, it's the system, right, same with Datsyuk.

These are the same guys who will argue that Lidstrom had no close competition in a Bourque vs Lidstrom debate, but then say Pronger was better... It's hilarious.

Seems like it's mainly Flyers homers and some fans of physical hockey who are spouting such nonsense.

Hey, I get why some people would pick Pronger for one run, but at least back it up without such ignorant comments, or using your opinion as fact.

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06-21-2012, 10:49 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
No, but he said they are, so it's fact!

Funny seeing how many people spouting their opinions as fact.

Nick's generally thought of by hockey people around here as a top five defenseman of all time. He dominated a prime Pronger in Norris wins and Finalist standings for the award. He won four Cups to Prongers one. Is the only defenseman to score over 1000 points and not play a large chunk or primarily their careers in the 80's.

The only thing Pronger has over Lidstrom is the Hart, for which Lidstrom came fourth one year.

Numbers and trophies show that Nick is better.

I did get a kick out of the guy saying Pronger never played for any good teams like the Wings... Considering they(the Blues) had something like a 26 straight playoff streak and were a powerhouse that had seasons comparable to the Wings' in the late 90's early 2000's, that's just revisionist history. Everyone likes to act like the Wings won with all star teams, yet the Cups in 97 and 98 the Wings finished 3rd and 5th in the peague respectively... And 2008 personel wise up front was no all star team.

Also, yeah, Lidstrom totally wasn't ever the best player on his team, it's the system, right, same with Datsyuk.

These are the same guys who will argue that Lidstrom had no close competition in a Bourque vs Lidstrom debate, but then say Pronger was better... It's hilarious.

Seems like it's mainly Flyers homers and some fans of physical hockey who are spouting such nonsense.

Hey, I get why some people would pick Pronger for one run, but at least back it up without such ignorant comments, or using your opinion as fact.
You do realize this is for a single playoff run, and not for their entire careers?

In this type of poll, would you choose Mike Gartner or Claude Lemieux?

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06-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
You do realize this is for a single playoff run, and not for their entire careers?

In this type of poll, would you choose Mike Gartner or Claude Lemieux?
For a single playoff run, Lidstrom still had the best run, resulting in a Conn Smythe. As TDMM pointed out, Pronger's last two games in 2010 were not Conn Smythe worthy, and he was suspended in 2007. If you're gonna use "pretty good" as a reference point for Pronger, Lidstrom has 1995, 1998, 2008, and 2009 as "pretty good" runs where he didn't win the Smythe either.

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