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TSN: Bob McKenzie Top 30 Thread

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Old
06-19-2012, 12:56 AM
  #76
DuklaNation
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No way Grigorenko falls that low unless there is some serious KHL risk that we dont know about. Id take him in the top 8 easily.

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:28 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
It will be fun to look back on this draft in a few years. I think in someways it will be like every other draft - someone near the top will bust; someone at 15-30 will burst out; someone will slip through the draft cracks and come up with a decent career.
Has anyone taken the time to do a definitive study on past drafts 5 or 10 years hence and posted the results somewhere? That would be very informative.

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06-19-2012, 01:37 AM
  #78
Eternal Leaf
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Grigs falling that much? Not a chance.

At worst, I see him dropping to 7-8. If he gets out of the top 10 then we aren't being told the whole story about Grigs.

That many teams passing over his talent is absurd.

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06-19-2012, 01:47 AM
  #79
Howe Elbows 9
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Why are you guys surprised by Reinharts position? he's done nothing but draw rave reviews and just had a strong playoff run, 4 is a perfectly good position for him
I think much of the surprise regarding Reinhart at #4 simply comes from the fact that he is a late riser (that strong playoff run you mentioned).

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Originally Posted by Eternal Leaf View Post
Grigs falling that much? Not a chance.

At worst, I see him dropping to 7-8. If he gets out of the top 10 then we aren't being told the whole story about Grigs.

That many teams passing over his talent is absurd.
Do you think that it's out of the question that we aren't being told the whole story about him?

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06-19-2012, 01:48 AM
  #80
Royal Canuck
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
No way Grigorenko falls that low unless there is some serious KHL risk that we dont know about. Id take him in the top 8 easily.
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Originally Posted by Eternal Leaf View Post
Grigs falling that much? Not a chance.

At worst, I see him dropping to 7-8. If he gets out of the top 10 then we aren't being told the whole story about Grigs.

That many teams passing over his talent is absurd.
Like Bob said, It's just because he didn't play well down the stretch after coming off the injury. I don't think he will go until 9th-12th personally, but if a team is willing to take a gamble, he could go higher.

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
Like Bob said, It's just because he didn't play well down the stretch after coming off the injury. I don't think he will go until 9th-12th personally, but if a team is willing to take a gamble, he could go higher.
A player dropping in the rankings due to poor play because of Mono or injuries isn't anything new (Logan Couture in 2007). Grigs falling out of the top-10 may be a huge blessing for some borderline playoff team.

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06-19-2012, 02:44 AM
  #82
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Blujus - 51st
.... But I'm hoping for low 40's

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06-19-2012, 02:47 AM
  #83
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Reinhart is gonna be a stud. Reminds me of Suter.

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:49 AM
  #84
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I for one am tired of the undertoned xenophobia towards Russian players.

Nobody talks about Russian factor with Nail Yakupov
yet all we hear with Grigorenko is "Russian factor"

to me it's just lazy and it negatively labels players, I hope whoever picks him he goes to a good organization so all these anonymous scouts, who are likely mostly North American will stop this nonsense. the guy had mono he shouldn't have been ****ing playing, and if you've ever had it, you'd know i'm telling the truth

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:59 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I for one am tired of the undertoned xenophobia towards Russian players.

Nobody talks about Russian factor with Nail Yakupov
yet all we hear with Grigorenko is "Russian factor"

to me it's just lazy and it negatively labels players, I hope whoever picks him he goes to a good organization so all these anonymous scouts, who are likely mostly North American will stop this nonsense. the guy had mono he shouldn't have been ****ing playing, and if you've ever had it, you'd know i'm telling the truth
I do think people take that mono in to account. But to me it seems that it has been especially after Combine. Scouts/Teams might have noticed something in him that has caused that. The best scouts have an eye to see the will and glimpse of an eye from a player in face to face, they just feel that this player will do the work and are good because of that. Perhaps Grigorenko was struggling with the question regarding KHL, which would make it a big risk for teams. Perhaps he did not have that drive in the eyes in combine to make him likely to drop out. We don't know that, but the real scouts do who actually get to talk to them and see them in face to face. Some guys like Jarmo Kekäläinen are real good at this and they usually find the right guys. We at HF boards can just speculate the ***t out of stats and on ice performances and are usually pretty much clueless about everything else. But speculating is fun.

For some teams Grigorenko is definately worth the shot in top 10, I could see Anaheim go for him for example or Carolina. But for some teams I'd be scared picking him up when I need some surefire hits from the draft, like Columbus, Montreal, Toronto, Islanders etc.

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Old
06-19-2012, 04:10 AM
  #86
dubey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I for one am tired of the undertoned xenophobia towards Russian players.

Nobody talks about Russian factor with Nail Yakupov
yet all we hear with Grigorenko is "Russian factor"

to me it's just lazy and it negatively labels players, I hope whoever picks him he goes to a good organization so all these anonymous scouts, who are likely mostly North American will stop this nonsense. the guy had mono he shouldn't have been ****ing playing, and if you've ever had it, you'd know i'm telling the truth
We'll see what happens on Friday

It's one thing when people that have no stake in the draft offer up their opinions. It's another when 10 teams pass on a player with top-end talent.

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Old
06-19-2012, 04:21 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I for one am tired of the undertoned xenophobia towards Russian players.

Nobody talks about Russian factor with Nail Yakupov
yet all we hear with Grigorenko is "Russian factor"

to me it's just lazy and it negatively labels players, I hope whoever picks him he goes to a good organization so all these anonymous scouts, who are likely mostly North American will stop this nonsense. the guy had mono he shouldn't have been ****ing playing, and if you've ever had it, you'd know i'm telling the truth
So he has been playing with mono at least for last three seasons...
I don´t doubt that mono severely influenced his game in play off, I respect it but it´s not like he got that label after play off.

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Old
06-19-2012, 07:54 AM
  #88
mkearney913
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Interesting that Koekkoek is that high and Grigorenko is that low.

These rankings make me think that picks 21-40 are relatively interchangeable this year. Seeing guys like Matheson, Pearson and Di Giuseppe in the top-30 over guys like Sissons, Bystrom, Thrower and Aberg makes me feel like a team will determine their needs here and pick accordingly, rather than picking the best player available.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of Subban or Vasilevski fall out of the top-30, nor would it surprise me to see a guy like Kerdiles or Sissons rise into the top-30. The teams between 20 and 30 have their favourites based upon what their organization needs at this point, and will pick accordingly come draft day.

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:09 AM
  #89
Dan-o16
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My NYIsles Dream Scenario:

NYI Trade #4 to Anaheim for #6 and #36

Isles select Reinhart at #6, one of Ville Pokka, Scott Laughton, or Colton Sissons at #34, allowing for home-run swing on Mark Jankowski at #36.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:47 AM
  #90
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I hope that Grigorenko's rumour for dropping so much because of KHL is true. CSKA revival could use a top center.

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06-19-2012, 08:53 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
Do you think that it's out of the question that we aren't being told the whole story about him?
I'm honestly starting to believe the scouts are buying the rumors that he may be 1-2 years older than his listed age. It seems to be the only legit explanation.

And to the dude who said where is the Russian factor stuff with Yakupov, the Oilers board would tell you otherwise. EDM radio has been trying to sell that angle pretty hard the last few days.

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:12 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Isles select Reinhart at #6, one of Ville Pokka, Scott Laughton, or Colton Sissons at #34, allowing for home-run swing on Mark Jankowski at #36
Something tells me somebody in the first will take a chance with Jankowski

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:27 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I'm honestly starting to believe the scouts are buying the rumors that he may be 1-2 years older than his listed age. It seems to be the only legit explanation.

And to the dude who said where is the Russian factor stuff with Yakupov, the Oilers board would tell you otherwise. EDM radio has been trying to sell that angle pretty hard the last few days.

Yeah - not like he underperformed in the last half of the season and playoffs. It couldn't be that teams are worried about his nationality, competitiveness and bravery - why would a team with a top ten pick worry about that?

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06-19-2012, 10:40 AM
  #94
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Button has Girgorenko slipping, HFBoard "experts" laugh.
Scouts polled have Girgorenko slipping, HFBoard "experts" still in denial.

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:45 AM
  #95
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wow talk about an insult to grigs. he comes over to the q and plays well and he drops lower than a guy who played what 8 games? lol he.might have done better if he had a serious injury

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #96
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Button has Girgorenko slipping, HFBoard "experts" laugh.
Scouts polled have Girgorenko slipping, HFBoard "experts" still in denial.
I laugh at the general connection people make on the draft # and how good the prospect actually is. Kuznetsov was drafted 26th, and that is accurate- since he is still not coming over, but the funny part was when people actually thought that he was 26th best of that draft.

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06-19-2012, 11:13 AM
  #97
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You'd think that with so many posts of ppl that want Grigo to fall and make trades to get him at 10-12, there will be a team to will go for his talent before this. I believe the growing environment will dictate his future in the NHL. With good coaches and teammates, it is hard to think he will bust with all the talent he has. Anyway, if it's a consensus here that he'd be a steal at 10-12, there will be at least 1 of the 10 first teams to gamble with him.

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:15 AM
  #98
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On TSN they mentioned how Grigorenko showed up at the combine wearing a shirt with a big red and white maple leaf on it. I dare say he was sending a message to the GMs with that one.
His playoffs make a lot more sense with the mono thing. Watching him against Halifax he always looked like he was playing his second game of the day or something. He still showed up for those games, you can't blame him for not being 100%.
Funny thing is, if that injury at the WJCs had been more serious, and forced him to sit the rest of the season, Grigorenko would probably be ranked much higher than he is now.

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06-19-2012, 11:20 AM
  #99
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Like Bob said, the thing about Grigorenko is that he wasn't great either in the WJC or the Q playoffs. He got injured in both, so he said it was more if you bought that it seriously affected his play. For me Grigorenko is certainly a top5, if not a top3 talent in this draft. I don't buy the crap he gets this year, just like I didn't buy the crap Couturier got last year (limited upside, poor skater etc).

It certainly will be an interesting draft, maybe more than other years. Because this year is so unpredictable, and many players on the same level (talent-wise). Kind of hard to predict who will be available where, so you just how to see how the draft unfolds.

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #100
DuklaNation
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He was definitely playing hurt at the WJC. Given that scouting is their full time profession, cant they account for these factors given their experience? Opportunity lies ahead.

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