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TSN: Bob McKenzie Top 30 Thread

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:38 AM
  #101
SH15
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The Grigorenko hate is ridiculous. The kid is a stud. If 10pts in 11 playoff games playing through Mono is considered a horrible playoff, then what in the world is his good/great playoff performace potential??

He obviously wants to play in the NHL and stay in North America, even wearing a red maple leaf shirt at the combine as a joke.

If he falls out of the Top 10 there are going to be a lot of teams shaking their heads in a few years, and one very lucky team that is smart enough to pick him.

I'm a huge Leafs fan and if Grigorenko is the 1 remaining from the Big 5 as I expect and the Leafs pass on him for Dumba I will hulk smash my coffee table.

Pick Grigorenko! Kid is a stud!!

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06-19-2012, 11:40 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Yeah - not like he underperformed in the last half of the season and playoffs. It couldn't be that teams are worried about his nationality, competitiveness and bravery - why would a team with a top ten pick worry about that?
If this was a loaded draft, I would buy that. But it's not a loaded draft. At some point his overall package of talent and hockey sense just blows away anybody left on the board once you get by the top 5. I won't deny there are some serious questions about his competitiveness, but the odds seem good to me he'll at least be a 60 point center (if he's actually the age he's listed at) and those aren't easy to find.

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06-19-2012, 11:54 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
If this was a loaded draft, I would buy that. But it's not a loaded draft. At some point his overall package of talent and hockey sense just blows away anybody left on the board once you get by the top 5. I won't deny there are some serious questions about his competitiveness, but the odds seem good to me he'll at least be a 60 point center (if he's actually the age he's listed at) and those aren't easy to find.
What are those competitiveness concerns based on?

When scouts delve into narrative they tend to be most fallible. I mean, is no one concerned that these guys say he has a bad work ethic when we've heard nothing about his work ethic?


Last edited by Andong Wang: 06-19-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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06-19-2012, 12:05 PM
  #104
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I think Woodlief summed up Grigs perfectly in a chat he had earlier today. He said Grigs would have a career like Turgeon or Yashin(basically put up alot of points) but not really show up when it counts.
As if that was a bad thing. If you can get a player who is in any way comparable to those two, you've had an amazing draft.

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06-19-2012, 12:08 PM
  #105
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Grigorenko was described as "like a squeezed lemon" [FATIGUE] by the Russian coach before WJC. He gave him a few days off while the rest of the team practiced. Despite that, he still looked very good on a very stacked Russian team before his injury. His line clicked and scored when no other line for Russia did. He was also very helpful even after his injury.

For me, his best performance was in the Subway series, where he dominated everytime he was on the ice.

I wish I could look McKenzie straight in the face and ask him HOW 10 points in 11 PLAYOFF games is a horrible performance for an injured prospect...

The only logical explanation is xenophobia of some sort, but that's speculation anyway

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06-19-2012, 12:40 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Grigorenko was described as "like a squeezed lemon" [FATIGUE] by the Russian coach before WJC. He gave him a few days off while the rest of the team practiced. Despite that, he still looked very good on a very stacked Russian team before his injury. His line clicked and scored when no other line for Russia did. He was also very helpful even after his injury.

For me, his best performance was in the Subway series, where he dominated everytime he was on the ice.

I wish I could look McKenzie straight in the face and ask him HOW 10 points in 11 PLAYOFF games is a horrible performance for an injured prospect...

The only logical explanation is xenophobia of some sort, but that's speculation anyway
Don't blame McKenzie, he just brings the message from the scouts he talked to. But I agree that he didn't have a horrible playoffs at all, but it's easy to blame him after the Remparts chocked away a 3-0 lead against Halifax.

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06-19-2012, 12:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
As if that was a bad thing. If you can get a player who is in any way comparable to those two, you've had an amazing draft.
If Grigorenko were as good coming into the NHL draft as Yashin or Turgeon were coming into theirs, he'd be the hands down #1 overall pick.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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06-19-2012, 12:47 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
If this was a loaded draft, I would buy that. But it's not a loaded draft. At some point his overall package of talent and hockey sense just blows away anybody left on the board once you get by the top 5. I won't deny there are some serious questions about his competitiveness, but the odds seem good to me he'll at least be a 60 point center (if he's actually the age he's listed at) and those aren't easy to find.
I'm sorry, but that profile doesn't sound very appealing.

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06-19-2012, 01:41 PM
  #109
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But it all depends on whether you think it is a weak draft or not.the conensus seemed to be that after Yakupov there was a separation--as if only he did not have any flaws that could prevent the prospect from becoming "elite"...

BUT even the great YAKUPOV managed ZERO GOALS on 21 shots at the WORLD JRS!
(He did get 9 assits in 6GP and was +4 in 7GP) ---on the other hand GRIGORENKO had 2g +3a =5pts and +2 in 6GP BUT he only got off 7 shots ...

Maybe BOTH guys have flaws preventing "eliteness" ?

They are NOT OVECHKIN+MALKIN class talennts...

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06-19-2012, 01:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
That's not how it works. They don't just take the average. Bob talks to 10 scouts and basis the rankings off their rankings.

If anything, we should be giving Button credit for calling Grigorenko's fall well before anyone else. He's been saying all season that he didn't think Grigorenko should be in the mix for the top 10(nevermind #1 like he was a few months ago).

Also, Button was probably the only guy to call the top 8 last season. Everyone mocked and bashed him when he had Landeskog going 2nd, Larsson 4th, Scheifele 7th and Couturier 8th.

He's extremely annoying and I hate listening to him...but he doesn't deserve any hate right now.
You're wrong. He had Landeskog 3rd, Larsson 8th, Scheifele 16th and Couturier 7th. He lso had Ryan murphy 4th and Beaulieu 9th. But all in all, his ranking was not that much out there compared to the actual draft, that is true enough.

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06-19-2012, 02:26 PM
  #111
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I just don't see how Reinhard can even be considered for 1st overall. I see limited offensive upside and more of a stay at home defenceman. You don't take a Schenn/Cowen type defenceman 1st overall imo...

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06-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #112
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I just don't see how Reinhard can even be considered for 1st overall. I see limited offensive upside and more of a stay at home defenceman. You don't take a Schenn/Cowen type defenceman 1st overall imo...
Apparently some scouts think he can turn into a Shea Weber.

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06-19-2012, 02:48 PM
  #113
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I just don't see how Reinhard can even be considered for 1st overall. I see limited offensive upside and more of a stay at home defenceman. You don't take a Schenn/Cowen type defenceman 1st overall imo...
I watched a lot of Reinhart from March on and as badly as i wanted to be highly impressed(was a big fan of Paul) it just didnt happen. His younger brother Sam looks like he inherited his fathers high skill level though.

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06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I just don't see how Reinhard can even be considered for 1st overall. I see limited offensive upside and more of a stay at home defenceman. You don't take a Schenn/Cowen type defenceman 1st overall imo...
Teams have done that in the past though (Chris Phillips being one example).

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06-19-2012, 03:11 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Teams have done that in the past though (Chris Phillips being one example).
Have you looked at the 1996 draft?

Phillips is probably at the very least the 3rd best player picked in the ENTIRE 1st round. He's probably at least the 5th best player picked in the ENTIRE draft.

No matter how bad you think the 2012 draft is, it's nowhere near as bad as 1996.

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06-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #116
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No matter how bad you think the 2012 draft is, it's nowhere near as bad as 1996.
This. I think it will be a fairly good draft. Not in how it produces stars, but many very good nhl regulars will come out of this draft.

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06-19-2012, 03:18 PM
  #117
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Hate to brag, but I called the rise of Reinhart.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
Have you looked at the 1996 draft?

Phillips is probably at the very least the 3rd best player picked in the ENTIRE 1st round. He's probably at least the 5th best player picked in the ENTIRE draft.

No matter how bad you think the 2012 draft is, it's nowhere near as bad as 1996.
I know-I actually went to that draft. My point is a defensive d-man can be taken 1st overall.

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06-19-2012, 03:40 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I know-I actually went to that draft. My point is a defensive d-man can be taken 1st overall.
True as far as it goes. But, generally only if there is an absolute dearth of top talent. And as I recall, CP was not being sold at the time as neccessarily just a defensive D. Also this was the dead puck era, when that type of player was a lot more valuable.

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06-19-2012, 04:10 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I just don't see how Reinhard can even be considered for 1st overall. I see limited offensive upside and more of a stay at home defenceman. You don't take a Schenn/Cowen type defenceman 1st overall imo...
People are putting two and two together without thinking. Reinhart was invited to Edmonton so they can get an idea of what they would trade for another pick should he be available.

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06-19-2012, 04:18 PM
  #121
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True as far as it goes. But, generally only if there is an absolute dearth of top talent. And as I recall, CP was not being sold at the time as neccessarily just a defensive D. Also this was the dead puck era, when that type of player was a lot more valuable.
I guess what I'm getting at is signs seem to point to considerable hand-wringing by several teams in the top half of the draft (including the Oilers) over the so-called top-end offensive talent. It's to the point that d-men such as Murray and Reinhart have a legit chance to be taken in the top three selections.

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06-19-2012, 04:28 PM
  #122
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i hope the teams think the same and wsh will pick grigorenko

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06-19-2012, 04:57 PM
  #123
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Why do so many people spell it Reinhard?

D is pretty far from T.

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06-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #124
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Why do so many people spell it Reinhard?

D is pretty far from T.
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06-19-2012, 06:03 PM
  #125
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Why do so many people spell it Reinhard?

D is pretty far from T.
Because 90 percent of these posters have no idea who these prospects are.

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