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Trade Rumors and Proposals: Part XXVII

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:17 AM
  #251
FlapJackKing
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
My dream draft day scenario is us trading for Nash while somehow still holding on to our 1st rounder for this year.
Personally I think that has a decent chance of happening with Murray sweetening the pot with another prospect if necessary. Murray never likes to head into any draft without at least one first rounder.

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06-20-2012, 09:18 AM
  #252
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Columbus fan coming in peace....

I wanted to say that I enjoyed reading your thread (particularly about Nash). Your discussion has bee spot on in my opinion and I've long throught that Nash would be excellent with Ottawa and their core. I certainly understand how people can look at the surface and see a 65+ pt player. I've been a season ticket holder in Columbus since the day the franchise was born and have seen 100's of games with Rick Nash. I'm not going to discount points and +/- and any other stat but what I will say is:

Nash, as a player, has the unique combination of size, speed and skill. He is impossible to knock off the puck, can work in tight spaces, will play in front of the net OR on the half wall. His passing is severely under rated (this is where I would make the argument of poor surrounding cast) and he has scored 30+ goals in 7 of his nine seasons on arguably one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL this past decade. The past two seasons he was removed from the PK by Arniel whereas Hitchcock praised him as a top 5 PK guy (he has to as coach right ) but he is a very good PK guy and should be in the top two pairs. He's a threat at ES, PP or PK to score. He isn't perfect defensively but he's not a cherry picker.

If you want points, I think he's 80+ on Ottawa with 35-40 goals. He'll be a plus player and is a great teammate. You don't want him to but he's not afraid to stick up for himself or other players. He brings it especially in the big games (during the season since we have such little playoff experience) and I think Ottawa fans and teammates would be thrilled if he was added.

The challenge I see with a move like this is that Columbus needs someone who can play in the top 6 and not just future fluff. I absolutely love Zijanebad and think he has to be part of any deal. I also think the CBJ would likely prefer Lehner over Bishop if that were part of the deal (although I think there could be another deal to be made separately if necessary). I don't know enough about Foligno aside from he's a nice player but from the sounds of it a plus third line guy (not complaining but that may be redundant in Columbus). I don't know how it works but I think there is a deal to be had here.

One last thought, I've seen defense mentioned in this thread. Mark Methot is someone we CBJ fans think could be moved. We have some decent NHL depth and a couple guys knocking on the door. If Nash were to go to the Rangers and MDZ came back I think Methot is the guy to get moved. He's a 2nd pair guy on good days, 3rd pair on bad days. limited offense but skates well, plays PK and has some size. Maybe something happens there with Ottawa.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share a little about Nash along with my respect for your discussions. Good luck.

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:46 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Columbus fan coming in peace....

I wanted to say that I enjoyed reading your thread (particularly about Nash). Your discussion has bee spot on in my opinion and I've long throught that Nash would be excellent with Ottawa and their core. I certainly understand how people can look at the surface and see a 65+ pt player. I've been a season ticket holder in Columbus since the day the franchise was born and have seen 100's of games with Rick Nash. I'm not going to discount points and +/- and any other stat but what I will say is:

Nash, as a player, has the unique combination of size, speed and skill. He is impossible to knock off the puck, can work in tight spaces, will play in front of the net OR on the half wall. His passing is severely under rated (this is where I would make the argument of poor surrounding cast) and he has scored 30+ goals in 7 of his nine seasons on arguably one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL this past decade. The past two seasons he was removed from the PK by Arniel whereas Hitchcock praised him as a top 5 PK guy (he has to as coach right ) but he is a very good PK guy and should be in the top two pairs. He's a threat at ES, PP or PK to score. He isn't perfect defensively but he's not a cherry picker.

If you want points, I think he's 80+ on Ottawa with 35-40 goals. He'll be a plus player and is a great teammate. You don't want him to but he's not afraid to stick up for himself or other players. He brings it especially in the big games (during the season since we have such little playoff experience) and I think Ottawa fans and teammates would be thrilled if he was added.

The challenge I see with a move like this is that Columbus needs someone who can play in the top 6 and not just future fluff. I absolutely love Zijanebad and think he has to be part of any deal. I also think the CBJ would likely prefer Lehner over Bishop if that were part of the deal (although I think there could be another deal to be made separately if necessary). I don't know enough about Foligno aside from he's a nice player but from the sounds of it a plus third line guy (not complaining but that may be redundant in Columbus). I don't know how it works but I think there is a deal to be had here.

One last thought, I've seen defense mentioned in this thread. Mark Methot is someone we CBJ fans think could be moved. We have some decent NHL depth and a couple guys knocking on the door. If Nash were to go to the Rangers and MDZ came back I think Methot is the guy to get moved. He's a 2nd pair guy on good days, 3rd pair on bad days. limited offense but skates well, plays PK and has some size. Maybe something happens there with Ottawa.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share a little about Nash along with my respect for your discussions. Good luck.
If we switched Bishop to Lehner, would that work? It seems to me like Lehner is ready to start in the NHL right now, but we have Andy and Bishop, so I'm open to trading him. Would Zibanejad, Foligno and Lehner be enough?

If we could make that happen, and somehow acquire a second round pick that we don't have, we could potentially draft Oscar Dansk (or Vasilevski/Subban if one falls). Dorion said he's looking to draft a goalie this year, be it in the first or the seventh round. He could have a few years to develop and be ready to step in in a few years, by which point we could trade Andy or Bishop for a different piece.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:04 AM
  #254
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I wonder if there is any thought of adding JayBo. Way overpaid, but it's only for two years, and could be a stopgap.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #255
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I think trading Lehner would be a huge mistake! He has a ceiling WAY higher than Ben Bishop.

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06-20-2012, 10:14 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by dan1el View Post
If we switched Bishop to Lehner, would that work? It seems to me like Lehner is ready to start in the NHL right now, but we have Andy and Bishop, so I'm open to trading him. Would Zibanejad, Foligno and Lehner be enough?

If we could make that happen, and somehow acquire a second round pick that we don't have, we could potentially draft Oscar Dansk (or Vasilevski/Subban if one falls). Dorion said he's looking to draft a goalie this year, be it in the first or the seventh round. He could have a few years to develop and be ready to step in in a few years, by which point we could trade Andy or Bishop for a different piece.
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't switch Lehner for Bishop, nor do I believe it would tip the scales to a 'Done Deal' status.

I think the poster from Columbus is right on the mark, Howson will want a front line player as part of any package for Nash, Foligno won't get it done.

I also don't believe throwing more prospects into the package is the answer either. Howson can't afford to trade Nash for a bunch of prospects or prospects and a second liner. Somehow he needs to hit a home run with this deal or it will be the last deal he makes for the Jackets.

I am not suggesting Howson will get all that he wants or needs, but he definitely needs more than the reported Murray offer.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:16 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't switch Lehner for Bishop, nor do I believe it would tip the scales to a 'Done Deal' status.

I think the poster from Columbus is right on the mark, Howson will want a front line player as part of any package for Nash, Foligno won't get it done.

I also don't believe throwing more prospects into the package is the answer either. Howson can't afford to trade Nash for prospects and a possible second liner. Somehow he needs to hit a home run with this deal or it will be the last deal he makes for the Jackets.

I am not suggesting Howson will get all that he wants or needs, but he definitely needs more than what the reported Murray offer.
Wonder if it takes Michalek, Foligno and Bishop - I'd do that and keep Zibanejad. Toss in Butler for Methot if it helps both teams switch bad signings.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:17 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by carsonscave View Post
I think trading Lehner would be a huge mistake! He has a ceiling WAY higher than Ben Bishop.
Bishop is 6'7 his ceiling is higher



Zibanejad, Foligno, Bishop for Nash.
or
Zibanejad, Foligno, Lehner for Nash and 31st overall.

we drafted Lehner with your second round pick. you want him it will cost you another second

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:18 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Bishop is 6'7 his ceiling is higher



Zibanejad, Foligno, Bishop for Nash.
or
Zibanejad, Foligno, Lehner for Nash and 31st overall.

we drafted Lehner with your second round pick. you want him it will cost you another second


I'd still say hang on to Lehner, he's a proven winner at the AHL level. He warrants more than a 2nd round pick.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't switch Lehner for Bishop, nor do I believe it would tip the scales to a 'Done Deal' status.

I think the poster from Columbus is right on the mark, Howson will want a front line player as part of any package for Nash, Foligno won't get it done.

I also don't believe throwing more prospects into the package is the answer either. Howson can't afford to trade Nash for a bunch of prospects or prospects and a second liner. Somehow he needs to hit a home run with this deal or it will be the last deal he makes for the Jackets.

I am not suggesting Howson will get all that he wants or needs, but he definitely needs more than the reported Murray offer.
This (my info that follows, not quote above) is likely totally unrealistic but thought I'd share a thought/opinion that might change the thinking a little. This would be an indirect impact to Ottawa but one thing that caught my eye was that if Bobby Ryan was actually available the CBJ could potentially use the #2 pick in a deal for Ryan. That would free them up to move Nash for more futures rather than something that will help fill needs immediately.

As with any deal, it's risk/reward options. Nash would clearly be the best player in the Ottawa deal and has proven to score goals. Maybe work out another deal for Ryan with the CBJ and then move Nash to Ottawa for primarily futures.... Ottawa has a good core in the NHL and a pretty deep prospect pool

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06-20-2012, 10:29 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Wonder if it takes Michalek, Foligno and Bishop - I'd do that and keep Zibanejad. Toss in Butler for Methot if it helps both teams switch bad signings.
While Nash should be an upgrade over Michalek, I'm not sure the net gain is worth giving up Foligno and Bishop.

The real problem Ottawa has in dealing for Nash is their lack of capable top six depth. Based on the reported Murray offer, it is easy to see he wants to add to his core 'top six', not just a swap of these assets.

I just think there are a few other teams reported to be in the Nash sweepstakes that are significantly better positioned to make a deal than Ottawa.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 06-20-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old
06-20-2012, 10:35 AM
  #262
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I want Jamie McBain.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:36 AM
  #263
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How about:
Zbad
Michalek
Bishop
Condra/Hoffman

for Nash
3rd round pick

then trade: 2 x 3rd round picks
for 2nd round pick


Columbus get their 4 moving parts and Condra/Hoffman can be replaced

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:38 AM
  #264
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I want Jamie McBain.
No chance Carolina lets him go, is there?

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06-20-2012, 10:41 AM
  #265
Holdurbreathe
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
This (my info that follows, not quote above) is likely totally unrealistic but thought I'd share a thought/opinion that might change the thinking a little. This would be an indirect impact to Ottawa but one thing that caught my eye was that if Bobby Ryan was actually available the CBJ could potentially use the #2 pick in a deal for Ryan. That would free them up to move Nash for more futures rather than something that will help fill needs immediately.

As with any deal, it's risk/reward options. Nash would clearly be the best player in the Ottawa deal and has proven to score goals. Maybe work out another deal for Ryan with the CBJ and then move Nash to Ottawa for primarily futures.... Ottawa has a good core in the NHL and a pretty deep prospect pool
Interesting thought, caused me to think that if Anaheim would be willing to move Ryan for CBJs second overall pick, why wouldn't Murray just offer one of his top prospects, plus Foligno for Ryan?

Ottawa gains a young, proven, big bodied scorer for less money and term, at a lower asset cost than Nash.

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06-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Interesting thought, caused me to think that if Anaheim would be willing to move Ryan for CBJs second overall pick, why wouldn't Murray just offer one of his top prospects, plus Foligno for Ryan?

Ottawa gains a young, proven, big bodied scorer for less money and term, at a lower asset cost than Nash.
winner

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
How about:
Zbad
Michalek
Bishop
Condra/Hoffman

for Nash
3rd round pick

then trade: 2 x 3rd round picks
for 2nd round pick


Columbus get their 4 moving parts and Condra/Hoffman can be replaced
Quantity won't make that deal happen IMO.

Also don't believe Murray will move Michalek as part of a deal for Nash, it doesn't satisfy Murray's need to add top six assets, not just swap them.

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06-20-2012, 10:45 AM
  #268
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No chance Carolina lets him go, is there?
-Pitkanen signed until 2014
-Gleason just extended
-Justin Faulk
-Ryan Murphy coming up
-Brian Dumoulin coming up
-Possibily a stud prospect this year, Reinhart, Reilly, etc.
-Derek Joslin?

Crazier stuff has happened. They have a bright future on D.

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06-20-2012, 10:58 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
This (my info that follows, not quote above) is likely totally unrealistic but thought I'd share a thought/opinion that might change the thinking a little. This would be an indirect impact to Ottawa but one thing that caught my eye was that if Bobby Ryan was actually available the CBJ could potentially use the #2 pick in a deal for Ryan. That would free them up to move Nash for more futures rather than something that will help fill needs immediately.

As with any deal, it's risk/reward options. Nash would clearly be the best player in the Ottawa deal and has proven to score goals. Maybe work out another deal for Ryan with the CBJ and then move Nash to Ottawa for primarily futures.... Ottawa has a good core in the NHL and a pretty deep prospect pool
I think the problem with a CBJ/Ottawa deal is all we can really offer is futures. The only roster forwards that we could offer that have any value are Foligno or Michalek. Everyone else is either untouchable or projects to be a bottom sixer.

In my opinion your team would be much better off trading Nash for future assets no matter what - taking that current roster minus Nash, I don't think its really going to matter if you had a guy like Michalek to the roster - they need to take a longer term view of building that team. Nash is a huge asset and you would probably get more mileage trying to leverage him to build the prospect pool into one of the best in the league. But that's just me.

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #270
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they have talked to the blue jackets but so has maybe 10 to 15 teams, they havent even asked what they wanted yet and just know 4 pieces is what they are looking for, i personaly am not a fan of nash, high high cap hit and giving up alot for him, not saying he isnt a good player and at free agency i would try to sign him say for 7, but not in trade with that cap hit

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06-20-2012, 12:33 PM
  #271
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I honestly cannot understand why our fanbase is largely so strongly opposed to getting Nash. There is definately concerns and I do not want to overpay what some of the rumored offers/demands are but I am not 100% against it and it makes sense to me for us to try and get Nash.

Most people would love Parise and yet he'd come with a similar cap hit and a contract that takes him until he is 40. Yes he costs nothing to acquire but let's face he will NEVER sign here and Melnyk would never approve offering such a massive front-loaded deal that would be needed to even get him to consider coming here. These contracts may even be illegal under the new CBA.

Trades are our only option of getting top talent, outside of the draft but there are no guarantees with the draft.

Let's not forgot that Alfie has maybe one more year and we will have the impossible task of replacing him. Obviously Alfie is irreplaceable but Nash is the closest thing on the market we could get to replace Alfie.

If the rumored offer from Brennan is true then maybe the Sens aren't as high on Zibanejad as they were ? Murray clearly feels we can afford to give him up if that is the case.

And finally yes we are "rebuilding"(the Sens never used that term as I recall) but it's an aggressive rebuild as we saw by the Rundblad trade.

I feel a lot better that Murray is out there actively exploring all options to improve the team rather than sitting around stockpiling picks. All winning teams are built by a smart combination of drafting, trades and FA signings so I hope people don't get too attached to some of our prospects as you can take it to the bank that some of them will be traded at some point.

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:34 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Interesting thought, caused me to think that if Anaheim would be willing to move Ryan for CBJs second overall pick, why wouldn't Murray just offer one of his top prospects, plus Foligno for Ryan?

Ottawa gains a young, proven, big bodied scorer for less money and term, at a lower asset cost than Nash.
Our Murray recently said he plans to stay put at 6 or even entertain trading back. He has also made it well known that he wants the team to get bigger. Taking that into consideration along with McKenzie's tweet about the Ducks would probably want 2-3 pieces in a trade. We would have to assume that to be two very promising pieces for a player of Ryan's caliber. So with that being said why would we downsize Ryan who plays a prototypical power forward role and has potted 4 straight 30+ goal seasons on a cap friendly contract for a little smaller player looking for a new contract and a top prospect. The Ducks would be taking all the risk. Just doesnt make any sense. The one thing the Ducks lack besides a center is a big physical shutdown defenseman.

This leads me to the words I'm sure most Sens fans will hate. Cowen + Zibanejad for Ryan. This gives the Ducks value as opposed to Foligno.

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06-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
I honestly cannot understand why our fanbase is largely so strongly opposed to getting Nash. There is definately concerns and I do not want to overpay what some of the rumored offers/demands are but I am not 100% against it and it makes sense to me for us to try and get Nash.
Just as you said, I think we're just worried about the cost rather than not wanting Nash. Nash may be overrated, but he'd still be the 2nd best forward by a mile on our team . I think a majority of us want Nash but not at the expense of severely mortgaging our future, which is what I think it would take to get him. If it's just Zibanejad, Foligno, Bishop + pick? Then by all means, let's get Nash!!

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06-20-2012, 12:59 PM
  #274
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I would do Rick Nash for Zibanejad, Foligno and Bishop. It will take more then that in all likelihood and I am not really down for that. I want the team to take one step backwards and then two steps forward, not one step backwards and two-thirds of a step forward. Giving up too much for Nash won't make us a better team in the long run, in my opinion. Then again, I'm a fan of depth.

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06-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #275
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Our Murray recently said he plans to stay put at 6 or even entertain trading back. He has also made it well known that he wants the team to get bigger. Taking that into consideration along with McKenzie's tweet about the Ducks would probably want 2-3 pieces in a trade. We would have to assume that to be two very promising pieces for a player of Ryan's caliber. So with that being said why would we downsize Ryan who plays a prototypical power forward role and has potted 4 straight 30+ goal seasons on a cap friendly contract for a little smaller player looking for a new contract and a top prospect. The Ducks would be taking all the risk. Just doesnt make any sense. The one thing the Ducks lack besides a center is a big physical shutdown defenseman.

This leads me to the words I'm sure most Sens fans will hate. Cowen + Zibanejad for Ryan. This gives the Ducks value as opposed to Foligno.
I wasn't suggesting the Ducks would make that deal, it was in response to a post from a Jackets fan.

IMO fans generally overvalue the home team's talent and undervalue the other 29 teams' players. For this reason I rarely enter any trade discussions.

That said, I respectfully suggest that Bob Murray wouldn't even suggest Ryan is worth two top 10 first round picks named Cowen and Zibanejad, because he knows its a none starter.

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