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Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues...part zwei

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Old
06-28-2012, 01:16 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
Chicago, I said he will always battle, I didn't say he always wins the battles. Two completely different things. I don't remember the Franzen episode you refer to.
oops

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06-28-2012, 02:19 PM
  #177
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All is good. What a great time to be a Blues fan. A highly competitive young team with talent in the pipeline. A top coach, GM and president with solid ownership. Hopefully a new CBA will help the Blues become more competitive financially. The Tank has arrived and will show us what he's got, Pie is now recognized as one of the top D men in the NHL. So many players that have yet to reach their prime. How about a healthy season for once. Halak ready to take the next step?

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06-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #178
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My opinion about Dags varies. He is good in the fact he can play any forward position if he has to, he has a real accurate shot, and can play aggressive when he wants to. His bad side is when he is not motivated he looks really sluggish like he is just doing the minimal work to keep a roster spot. With the roster as honed as it's becoming now he'll have to give it his best every night if he wants to have a job in St. Louis.

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06-28-2012, 03:21 PM
  #179
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My opinion about Dags varies. He is good in the fact he can play any forward position if he has to, he has a real accurate shot, and can play aggressive when he wants to. His bad side is when he is not motivated he looks really sluggish like he is just doing the minimal work to keep a roster spot. With the roster as honed as it's becoming now he'll have to give it his best every night if he wants to have a job in St. Louis.
What a great position for the team

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06-28-2012, 08:46 PM
  #180
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Whats the deal with David Perron?

Any interest in a RFA swap? Green for Perron?

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06-28-2012, 08:51 PM
  #181
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Whats the deal with David Perron?

Any interest in a RFA swap? Green for Perron?
Uhhh...No.

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06-28-2012, 09:04 PM
  #182
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Uhhh...No.
Hey, its a starting point.

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06-28-2012, 09:19 PM
  #183
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Whats the deal with David Perron?

Any interest in a RFA swap? Green for Perron?
We politely decline

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06-28-2012, 09:53 PM
  #184
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Hey, its a starting point.
No. It's a non-starting point. Now if Green were to take the same amount on his next contract, I'd listen to offers for Stewart. Two struggling players that could turn it around somewhere else.

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06-28-2012, 10:06 PM
  #185
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Green is one of those talents who can single-handedly alter a team's dynamic and dominate the game with his puck posession/transition/offensive zone play. He would be an amazing fit for the Blues if it wasn't for three things: His health, his cost, and the fact that he plays the right side.

You could get around the third problem by moving Pietrangelo to the left side, and his recent health concerns might keep his costs down for this next contract, but there's just no getting around his recent injury history (shoulder, hip, knee, ankle, groin, and two concussions).

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06-28-2012, 10:10 PM
  #186
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Which is why I would trade Stewart for him. Risk for risk.

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06-28-2012, 10:38 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
1223,

I disagree with you about Dags. First of all having speed and a good shot is not a bad thing. To say he has no grit isn't true. He is one of the strongest players on the team and will always battle. He will drop the gloves if need be on rare ocassions. His production did go way up when he got put on the top line, is that bad? He can contribute on the PP if need be and is responsible in his own zone. He is streaky but he is a nice player to have that supplies depth and can provide some scoring when given some ice time.
He just isn't St. Louis Blues quality anymore. Our standards are raised, and he is nothing more than a depth player for us anymore. Schwartz should play above him and get the experience.

I'd say at a minimum Schwartz will match D'Agostini's production, and it is very likely that he will outproduce Dags. Schwartz is just a slight notch below our beloved Russian Jesus, although it seems some people are forgetting that. Dags doesn't offer much defensively, so I don't know why some people want him in the lineup and not Schwartz.

Since the start of the rebuild, Schwartz is our 2nd best offensive prospect, no reason he can't have a very successful rookie season.

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06-29-2012, 12:47 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He just isn't St. Louis Blues quality anymore. Our standards are raised, and he is nothing more than a depth player for us anymore. Schwartz should play above him and get the experience.

I'd say at a minimum Schwartz will match D'Agostini's production, and it is very likely that he will outproduce Dags. Schwartz is just a slight notch below our beloved Russian Jesus, although it seems some people are forgetting that. Dags doesn't offer much defensively, so I don't know why some people want him in the lineup and not Schwartz.

Since the start of the rebuild, Schwartz is our 2nd best offensive prospect, no reason he can't have a very successful rookie season.
Preach On!
Wait until the end of next season and see some of the goals Schwartz scores. And watch him pound in those rebounds. Mark it. This kid has HUNGER.

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06-29-2012, 02:43 AM
  #189
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Preach On!
Wait until the end of next season and see some of the goals Schwartz scores. And watch him pound in those rebounds. Mark it. This kid has HUNGER.
Somewhere here there's a Tkachuck joke just waiting to be told...

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06-29-2012, 06:11 AM
  #190
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If the issue with Langenbrunner is 1 vs. 2 years, don't know how I feel about that. I guess if he's willing to take closer to fourth line money – as in 2 yrs x 1.5M –*then it's a lot more palatable. But I wouldn't want to pay 2 yrs x 2M(+) for him.

Oshie/Perron. One of them signing today? Armstrong's contract extended today?

Should be a lot of action around the league today.

Very anti-Jokinen here. He's kind of the opposite of a Hitchcock player due to his lack of defense. He's very lackadaisical most of the time. Sometimes he bears down and is intense and can be a difference maker, but it's too few and far between and there are too many sloppy plays that lead to chances the other way. Even if his contract were going to be reasonable (which it isn't) I'd want to pass.

I'm kind of glad there are three Blues (if you count Langenbrunner) in the 31-member NHLPA group. That's ~10% of the guys who should be very aware that harming the season harms their own personal competitive window.

Defenseman rankings for pairing with Petro options (personal):
1-2. Garrison/Suter
3. Trade for Giordano
4. Trade for Yandle (Yandle>Giordano but would be more expensive in assets)
5. Trade for Gorges/NYR dman/Vlasic/someone quality
6. Play Ian Cole and continue biding time (replacing Colaiacovo with Cole is not a regular season standings issue)
7. Trade for NHL-ready prospect (Gormley, Despres)
--------
8. Trade for Brooks Orpik
9. Sign Bryan Allen
10. Trade for Gunnarsson
11. Sign Kuba
12. Trade for Enstrom
13. Sign Colaiacovo
14. Sign Carle
15. Sign Souray
16. Trade for Robyn Regehr
17. Trade for Paul Martin
18. Trade for Jay Bouwmeester
19. Move to Saskatoon
20. Trade for Keith Ballard

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06-29-2012, 09:31 AM
  #191
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Langenbrunner was horrible last season, in my opinion. He's just become too slow to have a legitimate impact on any aspect of the game.

I would be disappointed if they actually resigned him for one year, let alone two.

Unless they are going to trade a forward, which is definitely a possibility...there is no use for him. Even then, it kind of seems like a forced move. The team has 13 legitimate NHL forwards without signing Langenbrunner and that doesn't even include Jaden Schwartz.

If the Blues need to resign a winger I'd much rather it be Porter than Langenbrunner..


Last edited by dRange44: 06-29-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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06-29-2012, 09:54 AM
  #192
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Langs may have lost half a step in terms of speed, but he knows where to be and isnt anywhere near a defensive liability. Like nichol, a solid 4th liner along with being a good voice and influence, but unlike nichol he could be a patch 3rd liner if necessary

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06-29-2012, 10:26 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
If the issue with Langenbrunner is 1 vs. 2 years, don't know how I feel about that. I guess if he's willing to take closer to fourth line money – as in 2 yrs x 1.5M –*then it's a lot more palatable. But I wouldn't want to pay 2 yrs x 2M(+) for him.

Oshie/Perron. One of them signing today? Armstrong's contract extended today?

Should be a lot of action around the league today.

Very anti-Jokinen here. He's kind of the opposite of a Hitchcock player due to his lack of defense. He's very lackadaisical most of the time. Sometimes he bears down and is intense and can be a difference maker, but it's too few and far between and there are too many sloppy plays that lead to chances the other way. Even if his contract were going to be reasonable (which it isn't) I'd want to pass.

I'm kind of glad there are three Blues (if you count Langenbrunner) in the 31-member NHLPA group. That's ~10% of the guys who should be very aware that harming the season harms their own personal competitive window.

Defenseman rankings for pairing with Petro options (personal):
1-2. Garrison/Suter
3. Trade for Giordano
4. Trade for Yandle (Yandle>Giordano but would be more expensive in assets)
5. Trade for Gorges/NYR dman/Vlasic/someone quality
6. Play Ian Cole and continue biding time (replacing Colaiacovo with Cole is not a regular season standings issue)
7. Trade for NHL-ready prospect (Gormley, Despres)
--------
8. Trade for Brooks Orpik
9. Sign Bryan Allen
10. Trade for Gunnarsson
11. Sign Kuba
12. Trade for Enstrom
13. Sign Colaiacovo
14. Sign Carle
15. Sign Souray
16. Trade for Robyn Regehr
17. Trade for Paul Martin
18. Trade for Jay Bouwmeester
19. Move to Saskatoon
20. Trade for Keith Ballard
I've been waiting for someone to take the time to do this. Now that the format (and most of the options are here), I'm curious what everyone thinks the order of the Blues fail-safes are.

Thanks PN!

I do have a question re: your preferences:

Is Regehr so far down the list due to the assets it would take to acquire him?


My shot at the Blues' preferences:

1a. Suter (make one fair offer, gauge interest, move on quickly)
1b. Garrison (spend some time on this one)
2. Wait to see if Pitt nabs Suter, if so, make a good offer on Orpik
3. Once Parise, Suter, and Garrison have signed (and Nash/Luongo traded), explore trades with NY, Phx, Cal
4. Offer Kuba a 2-year (low-ball) deal
5. Play Ian Cole; Sign Journeyman (maybe even sign Carlo as a 6/7)


A lot of other options via trade, but those are the only F/As I would look at. (Allen will want too many years, IMO, and he's not the right fit.)

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Old
06-29-2012, 10:32 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by taylord22 View Post
I've been waiting for someone to take the time to do this. Now that the format (and most of the options are here), I'm curious what everyone thinks the order of the Blues fail-safes are.

Thanks PN!

I do have a question re: your preferences:

Is Regehr so far down the list due to the assets it would take to acquire him?


My shot at the Blues' preferences:

1a. Suter (make one fair offer, gauge interest, move on quickly)
1b. Garrison (spend some time on this one)
2. Wait to see if Pitt nabs Suter, if so, make a good offer on Orpik
3. Once Parise, Suter, and Garrison have signed (and Nash/Luongo traded), explore trades with NY, Phx, Cal
4. Offer Kuba a 2-year (low-ball) deal
5. Play Ian Cole; Sign Journeyman (maybe even sign Carlo as a 6/7)


A lot of other options via trade, but those are the only F/As I would look at. (Allen will want too many years, IMO, and he's not the right fit.)
Based on contracts we've seen why would you think a 2 year low-ball deal for Kuba would work?

Kuba gets 4 million a year, no problem. He's big, he can play 2nd unit PP, kill penalties, and was a solid top 4 option for Ottawa last season.

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06-29-2012, 10:41 AM
  #195
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Regehr is down the list because he's a worse Jackman and pretty much shat the bed the entire year last year. Was really bad. He's below Souray who is also a poor option because Souray only costs $$ not assets. Pretty much everything below the dotted line would be a disappointment. Since giving Ian Cole a shot and biding time longer won't hurt them in the standings, I'd much rather do that than anything below the dotted line. Just wanted to show, below the dotted line, what is relative to what.

As for Kuba I understand what you're saying re: offer a lowball contract, kind of knowing he won't take it but not being willing to overpay for him. I certainly don't want to pay a market price for a soft old guy like that, but he's a better option than Bouwmeester for several reasons: cheaper (likely same term), no trade assets, equally big and soft.

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06-29-2012, 11:08 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He just isn't St. Louis Blues quality anymore. Our standards are raised, and he is nothing more than a depth player for us anymore. Schwartz should play above him and get the experience.

I'd say at a minimum Schwartz will match D'Agostini's production, and it is very likely that he will outproduce Dags. Schwartz is just a slight notch below our beloved Russian Jesus, although it seems some people are forgetting that. Dags doesn't offer much defensively, so I don't know why some people want him in the lineup and not Schwartz.

Since the start of the rebuild, Schwartz is our 2nd best offensive prospect, no reason he can't have a very successful rookie season.
Where Schwartz ranks as a prospect is irrelevant; he's still a prospect. I simply disagree with your opinion that Schwartz is currently better than D'ags. D'ags is easily the better overall player rigt now IMO. I'll also note that when JR asked Hitch his initial thoughts at the lines at this point, Hitch mentioned D'ags with Backes and Oshie and didn't even mention Schwartz. Schwartz has a very good future but RIGHT NOW, he's 10th on the depth chart for the top-9.

I hope folks also realize that there's virtually no way that the Blues are going to pay D'ags $1.8 million to sit in the pressbox instead of pay Schwartz $67.5k to play in Peoria.

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06-29-2012, 11:14 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Where Schwartz ranks as a prospect is irrelevant; he's still a prospect. I simply disagree with your opinion that Schwartz is currently better than D'ags. D'ags is easily the better overall player rigt now IMO. I'll also note that when JR asked Hitch his initial thoughts at the lines at this point, Hitch mentioned D'ags with Backes and Oshie and didn't even mention Schwartz. Schwartz has a very good future but RIGHT NOW, he's 10th on the depth chart for the top-9.

I hope folks also realize that there's virtually no way that the Blues are going to pay D'ags $1.8 million to sit in the pressbox instead of pay Schwartz $67.5k to play in Peoria.
Hitch also said he is very high on Schwartz and will consider him for the 3rd line center spot.

I thought I remembered Hitch or someone describing Dags as a 2nd-3rd line tweener, but would be with Backes and Oshie because of chemistry and balance amongest the lines, not because they think he is top line caliber.

I still think he will be used in a trade if we miss out on Suter or Garrison.

Dags was terrible during last season. Yes, he can skate and yes, he does work hard, but we need players who can produce.

Even if we sign Suter or Garrison, I still think he is moved for salary reasons. Dags, Crombeen, and Russell are the only players that can really be moved if we acquire a high priced defender.

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06-29-2012, 11:16 AM
  #198
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Regehr is down the list because he's a worse Jackman and pretty much shat the bed the entire year last year. Was really bad. He's below Souray who is also a poor option because Souray only costs $$ not assets. Pretty much everything below the dotted line would be a disappointment. Since giving Ian Cole a shot and biding time longer won't hurt them in the standings, I'd much rather do that than anything below the dotted line. Just wanted to show, below the dotted line, what is relative to what.

As for Kuba I understand what you're saying re: offer a lowball contract, kind of knowing he won't take it but not being willing to overpay for him. I certainly don't want to pay a market price for a soft old guy like that, but he's a better option than Bouwmeester for several reasons: cheaper (likely same term), no trade assets, equally big and soft.
Re: Regehr...I assumed his poor year was due to Buffalo having a poor year in general. Though, I didn't catch more than 2-3 Buffalo games last year.

Re: Kuba...Exactly. No way you overpay the guy, but he's a better interim option than most other F/As and trades (I see available). I hate the idea of signing someone for the sake of signing someone — Cole's value will start to plummet this year unless he's given an apt opportunity. And by Hitchcock's interview on XM yesterday, I think he feels the same.

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06-29-2012, 11:21 AM
  #199
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I think Regehr is near the end. We need someone who can skate, and he is too slow for me.

Didn't JR say we are looking for a shooting LH dman? I hope that means they are serious about Garrison.

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06-29-2012, 12:42 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Hitch also said he is very high on Schwartz and will consider him for the 3rd line center spot.

I thought I remembered Hitch or someone describing Dags as a 2nd-3rd line tweener, but would be with Backes and Oshie because of chemistry and balance amongest the lines, not because they think he is top line caliber.

I still think he will be used in a trade if we miss out on Suter or Garrison.

Dags was terrible during last season. Yes, he can skate and yes, he does work hard, but we need players who can produce.

Even if we sign Suter or Garrison, I still think he is moved for salary reasons. Dags, Crombeen, and Russell are the only players that can really be moved if we acquire a high priced defender.
And if D'ags isn't traded, do you really think that Hitch would choose Schwartz over D'ags??

Also, is D'ags a 2nd/3rd line tweener or not fit for the top-9? Which is it? As for him being on the "top line" (IMO, as things stand today, i see 3 very equal lines with no obvious 1st line) because of chemistry and balance...duh.

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