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Luongo XII - For Your 1st-and-a-Prospect Only (Mod warning in OP)

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #76
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Couldn't care less what other fans state, a goalie isn't a big deal until he proves that he can be a good starter. Vokoun and Harding voluntarily took themselves out of the running while Lindback has proven squat. Thomas is pulling a power play because he doesn't want the Bruins trading him someplace where he doesn't want to go so who knows how that will work out.
I've still counted 4 fewer options. Leafs fans of various, but not all, stripes, have given their names out as other options.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #77
AlmightyPO
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Well technically it's only a cap circumvention contract if Luongo retires early. So Burke can just bluster around saying he fully expects Luongo to play out the entire contract, and like any good politician probably isn't going to be around long enough to face the consequences of this happening or not
He wouldn't be afraid to take on the contract if he agreed with a trade, but if he is asked to overpay for Luongo he will for sure mention his opposition to long contracts in trying to justify his decision of not trading for him. Not the circumvention part, but just the fact it is 10 years as he doesn't usually like contracts more than 5 years in length.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #78
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Title should be Vancouver Fans: The World is Not Enough

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
And I would similarly love to see the Canucks not trade Luongo and piss off both of their goaltenders, eventually bowing out in the first round again.
ah yes, the first round. Lofty heights for Leaf fans right?

I don't understand the back and forth hate - people are going to be bias towards their own team but the bottom line is this (and both fan bases should eb able to agree on it): Vancouver would like to unload a goalie - they don't need to but it would be awkward having both next year - and Toronto needs a goalie.

How it all comes together is anyone's best guess, but there's really no point in flaming each other or the fan bases over hypotheticals.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #80
vanwest
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Couldn't care less what other fans state, a goalie isn't a big deal until he proves that he can be a good starter. Vokoun and Harding voluntarily took themselves out of the running while Lindback has proven squat. Thomas is pulling a power play because he doesn't want the Bruins trading him someplace where he doesn't want to go so who knows how that will work out.
I agree with that. I've never really seen Harding and Lindback as valid options for a starting goalie. I think Vokoun and Thomas would have been solid options.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #81
ryno23
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
LOL what was wrong with my thinking?

so lets see, which team that was looking for a starter and may have had interest in Luongo got a new goalie besides Tampa Bay? Care to tell me because I don't see any other team. Do u know a trade that has happened involving a goalie going to team needing a starter, that no one else in the world knows of?

Are u saying u know more than Minnesota's own fans since they say Backstrom is not available unless they get a major upgrade?

Where did a Reimer/Gustavsson combo get the Leafs the last 2 years again? How does changing the backup to an even more unproven guy help the team? He could be better than Gustavsson but he could also be worse. Plus he is a backup so maybe he wins u guys 3 more games than Gustavsson. Thats not going to bump the Leafs into the playoffs.
What you guys are forgetting is that you have problems in your own dressing room with Luongo.

1. Ask to be dealt cause he got benched during the teams biggest game of the year and has carried the team for better part of 6 years.
2. Team has basically said Scheidner your #1
3. His contract is the albatross around the Canucks neck that will neget a huge return as teams taking a chance on Luongo will not pony up a huge return.
4. The Leafs have plenty of other options such as going after Halak, Backstrom, Kipper all goalies with better contracts and might cost a bit more but would be worth looking into.
5. They could improve upfront and on the D line and hope that Reimer and Scrivens can work with Carlyle's team system. As Phoenix proved last year you can get by with a average goalie if you play a good team system.

The other teams you say are looking for a goalie doesn't seem right

FLA is set with Markstrom and bringing in LOU would block him for a decade
CHI - won't go near him after his playoff performances against them
WIN - you brought that up cause of the Pavelec rumor..well that puts another goalie on the market for the Leafs
CBJ - Lu has a say where he goes and he knows that CBJ is way worse than TOR.
EDM - Not sure if the need is actually there and with all the youth they need to lock up no reason to squash any precious cap space.


So that is just a few points but the big one is that Luongo wants to move on and he has stated he does not want to be the backup. He holds the cards with his NTC. His contract is bad.

Pretty much the big reason why the Canucks are in a tight spot cause I tell you internally they do not want to have to answer the questions all training camp long who is the starter and what about the other guy....it will be a circus come training camp with the media if he is still there.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #82
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The bolded is untrue. Toronto fans didn't want to overpay 2 weeks ago, and goalies coming off the market has not changed that view at all.
I wasn't saying their views in not overpaying is grasping for straws. I was saying their logic for why they shouldn't is. I agree Toronto shouldn't overpay, but they shouldn't let paying a little bit more than they had planned get in the way of becoming a playoff team with a elite or solid starter (be it Lou or some other goalie) instead of a bottom 10 team.

Most leaf fans were fine with something around 2 of Colborne Ashton and Schenn plus the 35th pick. Would changing that pick into next years 1st really get in the way of acquring a top goalie in the teams weakest position?

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cuckoo4Canucks View Post
Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by some of my fellow Canuck fans.

Lu is a great goalie on a questionable contract.

I've gone on record, already, saying that I don't expect much from a trade.
There certainly won't be a "big" name coming back unless he is on an equally questionable contract.

However a deal goes, I'll keep my expectations modest. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed.

All things being equal, I do hope a deal can get done between T.O. and Van.
Lu would be a great addition to the Leafs...at least for now.

As for all the back-and-forth in this thread? Haha. Good times.
I started wanting an equally impactful player, even if the contract was similar (it's not my job to fit in a contract under the cap). Now I am happy with 2 or 3 positive players, good at their jobs and what have you. I think I've mellowed over what seems like eons of bickering and sniping.

I think Luongo to the Leafs is a case of them getting the better player, and being more valuable there then the return would be here. I insist we aren't the best trading partners still, and only one offer has caught my eye for longer then a fleeting moment.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
  #84
cyris
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Thankfully our GM's probably aren't as stubborn and pigheaded as our fan bases.
You have a player you need to trade in a very limited market.
We have a huge need for that kind of player.

There has to be a trade that works for both sides. Unfortunately I doubt we will ever agree to it in here.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
We're down one team. The Leafs/others are down 4 potential goalies. Not trying to be inflammitory, but that benefits the seller in this case, not the buyer, who ever it may be.

Florida offered less, but it fit our team better. Howden is a better prospect then everyone but Kadri, Upshall is more valuable to us, contract included, as an "elite bottom six" forward then MacArthur or even Kulemin would be, and I lost track of the rest of the offer.

There was an Edmonton fan with an offer on the table. It was something along the lines of Gagner/Paaravi, Khabibulin and a second. We wanted both main pieces last I checked.

If it helps, I liked your offer better for straight value
I was the poster who offered Gagner, Khabi and the 32nd overall.

The problem here is that the Oilers are a divisional rival and Gillis might not want to trade Luongo to a team he is going to be playing 6 times a year.

So that being said I think you can take the Oilers off the list of potential trade partners. (Even though the trade would benefit both teams).

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:08 PM
  #86
AlmightyPO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
How many years were left on Carter's contract when the Kings traded for him mid-season?
Not even close to the same situation.

Roberto Luongo age: 33
Jeff Carter age: 27

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #87
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
3 way deal that everyone is going to hate but is actually pretty fair.

T.O gets Luongo
NYR gets Schenn + Kulemin
VAn gets Dubinsky + Ashton/Colbourne/Kadri whatever

Toronto gets Lou for Schenn, Kulemin and a prospect
NYR gets depth on D and a top 9 winger, (imagine adding Schenn as a bottom pairing to that crazy top 4 they have)
Van gets a quasi 2nd/3rd liner and a decent prospect.

This is assuming that NYR are actually shopping Dubinsky hard.
If we did get Schenn, I'd like to give him at least a year in our system to see how he does.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #88
KISSland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
3 way deal that everyone is going to hate but is actually pretty fair.

T.O gets Luongo
NYR gets Schenn + Kulemin
VAn gets Dubinsky + Ashton/Colbourne/Kadri whatever

Toronto gets Lou for Schenn, Kulemin and a prospect
NYR gets depth on D and a top 9 winger, (imagine adding Schenn as a bottom pairing to that crazy top 4 they have)
Van gets a quasi 2nd/3rd liner and a decent prospect.

This is assuming that NYR are actually shopping Dubinsky hard.
NY would never do this. They need Offense not more D.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #89
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Most leaf fans were fine with something around 2 of Colborne Ashton and Schenn plus the 35th pick. Would changing that pick into next years 1st really get in the way of acquring a top goalie in the teams weakest position?
Two great prospects and a very early second round pick / next years first round pick?

No thank you. Especially not for a goaltender such as Luongo.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bills09 View Post
Title should be Vancouver Fans: The World is Not Enough
Depends on how you define the 'World'. Some Leaf fans seem to think that the Canucks' fans don't get to see the early games and actually watch such stars like Komisarak, Connolly and McCarthur.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #91
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Part 12? Really?
Has there been a thread with more parts? (Seriously im curious)

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:11 PM
  #92
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Thankfully our GM's probably aren't as stubborn and pigheaded as our fan bases.
You have a player you need to trade in a very limited market.
We have a huge need for that kind of player.

There has to be a trade that works for both sides. Unfortunately I doubt we will ever agree to it in here.
I still don't know how limited. Limited in terms of who will take the contract? OK...I don't see it being a problem, but the continuous mention of it makes me understand not everyone is willing to overlook it or see it as a benefit as I do. Limited in which other terms though? I don't see that "5 teams" rumour as having legs, if Luongo has asked out, which is also hearsay at this point.

Plus we have Schneider. So....ehhh....If Luongo is heading to Toronto, Gillis and Burke...well both of them I can see being as pigheaded as our fan bases have been so far. Neither are model gentlemen, at least in the media.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:12 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Yinka Dene View Post
I have an honest feeling that Schneider is being quietly shopped to a few teams for a targeted package.
There are other fans, myself included, that feel the same way. Some even going so far as to put on their tinfoil hats and claim the Canucks dressed Schneider against the Kings to raise his value

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:13 PM
  #94
Timmy
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Not even close to the same situation.

Roberto Luongo age: 33
Jeff Carter age: 27

You can't shift the goalposts.

You said that you don't trade for a 10 year contract midseason, with zero reference to a player's age. I provided an example of such a trade happening only a couple of months ago. If you're going to put qualifiers in, you should do so at the beginning rather than after somebody provides you with a comparative that's within the parameters of your original supposition.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I agree that if a trade can be worked out that works for both sides it would be sensible. But I dont think you will ever see a consensus it these threads.
We have been close a few times. But after that happens the extremes from both sides come in and drowned out the moderates.
I agree. I've seen a few sensible proposals that I thought at least were in the ballpark.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:13 PM
  #96
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The next threads OP should pin up a few of the proposals that arent too outrageous
Schenn, Kadri + 2nd for Luongo + 2nd

Kulemin + Ashton + 2nd for
Luongo

And that way we can sort of eliminate the extreme proposals (Gardiner/komisarek)

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:14 PM
  #97
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You guys are worse than used car salesmen!

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:14 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bills09 View Post
Title should be Vancouver Fans: The World is Not Enough
May not be a Bond film but Leafs fans: Money for Nothing, would work as well

Most Canucks fans do realize that Luongo's value isn't great but know that he's still gonna return a decent package, nothing spectacular but much more than what a lot of Leafs fans are proposing.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #99
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Possibly for Schneider, but like I said Schneider is a pending UFA, he runs the risk of walking if that team can't sign him which could reduce the value.

Luongo has one less year of quality play, there is no possible way you can argue his return could be higher mid-season than now especially given his NTC. You don't trade for a 10 year contract for a mid-season patch up.

Not to mention Gillis is rumoured to be looking for a hockey trade, meaning not really picks or prospects. What do you think you are going to get mid-season or trade deadline? Realistically no team trying to make the playoffs is sending big pieces to you guys but rather high picks and prospects.
I don't understand that. The Canucks have a fairly full roster... so there would need to be other players moving with Luongo to make a "hockey trade"...

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:18 PM
  #100
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If I'm Gillis, my new asking price from Toronto...

#5 + Gardiner + 2013 1st rounder...

Lots of time to come down from there... At least, 2+ months...

Who starts a negotiation low... especially when you've got months to come to a deal (assuming Luongo is getting traded)?

I expect Toronto (and others) to start with real low ball offers, and Gillis to start with a real high ball asking price...

Such is the game... Lots of frustration planned for anyone invested in this (and CBA) negotiations throughout the offseason... Not going to be quick, clean, easy resolutions, IMHO...

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