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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Same ********, Different 2 Weeks

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Old
06-19-2012, 07:53 PM
  #26
TickleMeYandle
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Originally Posted by DangleAngle View Post
So, who was the council member that was not present for the vote (i.e., the 7th member needed for an emergency measure)? Would he or she have voted for the deal?
Norma alvarez. She would have voted against.

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06-19-2012, 07:55 PM
  #27
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Norma alvarez. She would have voted against.
Thanks. Ironic that, if Mayor Scruggs (one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Hulsizer deal) had voted for it, this whole referendum mess could have been avoided. This story just continues to get whackier by the day. I will try to enjoy the draft on Friday (but it will be hard).

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06-19-2012, 08:02 PM
  #28
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I have always been pessimistic that the deal would get done, simply because if I expect the worst and am pleasantly surprised, that's better than expecting good and being disappointed. I assume that there will be a referendum, and I assume it will not go in the coyotes favor. But to hear bettman and Jamison, they are moving forward anyway.

Which makes me wonder, if he were to buy the team anyway, would the cuurent lease just continue? I think I read that the NHL has a ten year lease, but I may be wrong on that.

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06-19-2012, 08:04 PM
  #29
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Are they allowed to use signatures that may have been collected prior to today? Perhaps they've been planning on this and have a two week head start?
They could have a head start, who knows? How many people will be out getting signatures? Hopefully they don't have many and haven't started yet, putting them a little behind the 8 ball.

Just thinking of my own personal experience. I just signed a petition for a guy in the neighborhood about 2 weeks ago. I grilled him about what it was about and took up a few minutes (3 to 5) of his time. I wasn't going to just sign something in this day and age of identity theft. A little paranoid, I know, but better safe than sorry. If you're out in front of a store doing it, will all those people be registered voters? While you get one signature, will others be willing to stop in the heat and wait? Depends on how one feels about the issue.


Just like it has for the last 3 years, we'll see how it plays out.

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06-19-2012, 08:19 PM
  #30
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I know we are all tired of this, and we hate GWI and their slimeball tactics, but I am confident that CoG, Jamison, and NHL expected this at the very least. It's all part of the plan. The Yotes are not going anywhere, and today will prove to have been a victory. We just have to wait a little bit longer as it all plays out.

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:22 PM
  #31
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Are they allowed to use signatures that may have been collected prior to today? Perhaps they've been planning on this and have a two week head start?
They can't collect signatures prior to pulling the referendum request. So assuming they did that immediately the next buisness day the city clerk's office would have been open was Monday the 11th. That's 4 weeks total to collect signatures.

Look at the math: let's say they knock doors: a very good day would yield 20% people home, right there you would have to knock 10,000 doors in 4 weeks. That's 357 doors in 110 degrees heat in one day. And keep in mind not every door on a block is a registered voter, half are at best. You really can only collect on weeknights between 6-8p, people who are home during the day don't answer their doors. There are no festivals are large events that one would typically use to collect signatures this time of the year, most of those are winter/ spring time.

A collector could hang out in front of a Safeway but then you risk overlapping work with people that may sign later when someone knocks their door. Plus the efficacy out front of a Safeway is low; I have no ability to cross check whether you're registered or not.

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06-19-2012, 08:38 PM
  #32
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[QUOTE=Look at the math: let's say they knock doors: a very good day would yield 20% people home, right there you would have to knock 10,000 doors in 4 weeks. That's 357 doors in 110 degrees heat in one day. And keep in mind not every door on a block is a registered voter, half are at best. You really can only collect on weeknights between 6-8p, people who are home during the day don't answer their doors. There are no festivals are large events that one would typically use to collect signatures this time of the year, most of those are winter/ spring time.
A collector could hang out in front of a Safeway but then you risk overlapping work with people that may sign later when someone knocks their door. Plus the efficacy out front of a Safeway is low; I have no ability to cross check whether you're registered or not.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Very good points, TeamTip. Joe Cobb is going to start collecting names tomorrow. Would you open the door for this guy? We'll see how long poor Joe lasts in this heat.

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TeamTippett View Post
They can't collect signatures prior to pulling the referendum request. So assuming they did that immediately the next buisness day the city clerk's office would have been open was Monday the 11th. That's 4 weeks total to collect signatures.

Look at the math: let's say they knock doors: a very good day would yield 20% people home, right there you would have to knock 10,000 doors in 4 weeks. That's 357 doors in 110 degrees heat in one day. And keep in mind not every door on a block is a registered voter, half are at best. You really can only collect on weeknights between 6-8p, people who are home during the day don't answer their doors. There are no festivals are large events that one would typically use to collect signatures this time of the year, most of those are winter/ spring time.

A collector could hang out in front of a Safeway but then you risk overlapping work with people that may sign later when someone knocks their door. Plus the efficacy out front of a Safeway is low; I have no ability to cross check whether you're registered or not.
10 people collecting 10 signatures a day for 5 days a week x 4 weeks is 2000 signatures. If 20 people volunteered to collect signatures each day or 10 people signed up 20 people a day it would be 4000 signatures.

I guess time will tell how difficult it will be to get the signatures.

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06-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #34
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I think we're giving Glendale WAY to much credit. There is no strategy to this. GWI is absolute scum, the worst of the worst - lawyers who use the legal system to get their way even if it's not the best decision. They are ideologues who don't have a concept of common sense. But they know how to manipulate the system extremely well...I don't feel good about this. I know one thing - the Diamondbacks and Suns will never get a red cent from me as a result of this charade.

Now if Jamison is a smart business man, he will wait on this deal even if it takes until November. If it's a good deal now, it's a good deal in 5 months. My concern is the NHL, and I don't know what stomach they have to wait out a vote that may not even go their way.

At this point, we need to lobby Scruggs to change her vote. I know she's not the sharpest tool in the shed and IMO has shown poor leadership throughout this (even when she favored a Coyotes deal), but faced with the facts of this deal she has to see that this saves $1m-$2m every year on their budget. If someone walked into her office with an idea to slash $1m from the budget, she'd do backflips. So why doesn't she see this for what it is? It's just frustrating when unintelligent and/or misinformed people make poor decisions.

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06-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
10 people collecting 10 signatures a day for 5 days a week x 4 weeks is 2000 signatures. If 20 people volunteered to collect signatures each day or 10 people signed up 20 people a day it would be 4000 signatures.

I guess time will tell how difficult it will be to get the signatures.
Think about it how many doors do you have to knock to get that 10? Using my 20% efficacy that's 50 doors. Go and try to knock 50 doors in your neighborhood and see how long it takes you? Certainly more than the two hours you likely have between 6p (when people get home) and dusk (8p) believe me I feel good that they won't have 2k VALID signatures. I wouldn't be suprised if they turn in 2k, but I'm confidant there will be duplicates and non registered voters on that list.

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Old
06-19-2012, 09:12 PM
  #36
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I hope they can't get the signatures, but all of this mess is still going to make it very difficult for us to keep Whitney.

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06-19-2012, 09:13 PM
  #37
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NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, the full NHL schedule will be released on Thursday & on it the Coyotes are still in Phoenix

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06-19-2012, 09:21 PM
  #38
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That's not the correct quote from Bettman (I'm at the NHL Awards now and am uploading video of the scrum following the conclusion of the BOG meeting).

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06-19-2012, 09:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
That's not the correct quote from Bettman (I'm at the NHL Awards now and am uploading video of the scrum following the conclusion of the BOG meeting).
Interesting, never heard of the guy myself but he has over 20k followers so I figured he is a big shot. Look forward to your video.

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Old
06-19-2012, 09:38 PM
  #40
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Interesting, never heard of the guy myself but he has over 20k followers so I figured he is a big shot. Look forward to your video.
He's a good guy. Just met him today.

I pretty much took this season off. I was burnt out after the previous season covering every Coyotes game and then every single game of the playoffs. Not just watching every single game but watching every single game again after the live viewing then breaking down video and looking over stats. Multiply that times all the games of the playoffs and you have my level of burnout..


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Old
06-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #41
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no but this is a city matter and thus can only be conducted by the City. The City of Glendale pays the County Recorder to hold their elections, now as a result of that there are other cadiadates that appear on the ballot (senator, rep school board et al). but the only CITY WIDE election takes place every 4 years. Thats why i suspect the 30 day window. July 9th must be the last day to collect petions for the Nov general.

I'm beginning to think the delay on this vote was quite strategic by the City (genius). They knew the drop dead date for the Nov general was July (I think its July 5th according to the secretary of state). That gives NO time between June 9th and July to collect signatures. Glendale actually thought about this and had some strategy behind the timing
Elections - both registration and voting - are handled at the county level by the Maricopa County Elections Dept. There is minimal cost to adding a measure for Glendale voters to an existing primary or general election - as opposed to scheduling a special election just for that purpose. Note that there were Glendale city propositions voted on in 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2002, & 2001 - contradicting your assertion that referendums only be held under your definition of "city wide election".

The Glendale City Charter requires local elections comply with the State statutes concerning the conduct of elections. State law requires that after a proposition has qualified for the ballot it must be voted on no later than the next general election. The Charter allows the city to schedule it earlier, and during primary, general, or special elections.

Glendale propositions have been voted on: Nov 2001, May 2002, Nov 2002, May 2004, May 2005, Sept 2006, May 2007, Sept 2007, May 2008

If the signatures were not gathered by the July 5 deadline for the Nov general election - then the referendum would likely be voted on in May 2013. Note however, the 30 day statutory limit would require the petitions to be filed by July 9.

All that said, whether the deadline is July 4 or July 9 - it is still a very short window. One group opposed to the sales tax increase in the final Glendale budget has admitted that it would be virtually impossible to collect the necessary signatures during their even shorter June 26 - July 5 (effectively July 2 due to the holidays) window - theu can't file their referendum until the council actually votes on the budget/tax next Tues.

Note that, unlike some states and jurisdictions, AZ does not have restrictions against using paid or out-of-state signature gatherers.

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06-19-2012, 09:50 PM
  #42
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They can't collect signatures prior to pulling the referendum request. So assuming they did that immediately the next buisness day the city clerk's office would have been open was Monday the 11th. That's 4 weeks total to collect signatures.

Look at the math: let's say they knock doors: a very good day would yield 20% people home, right there you would have to knock 10,000 doors in 4 weeks. That's 357 doors in 110 degrees heat in one day. And keep in mind not every door on a block is a registered voter, half are at best. You really can only collect on weeknights between 6-8p, people who are home during the day don't answer their doors. There are no festivals are large events that one would typically use to collect signatures this time of the year, most of those are winter/ spring time.

A collector could hang out in front of a Safeway but then you risk overlapping work with people that may sign later when someone knocks their door. Plus the efficacy out front of a Safeway is low; I have no ability to cross check whether you're registered or not.
The majority of petition signatures are gathered by first hand personal contacts and volunteers or paid signature gatherers in public spaces (I have been accosted by both many times) rather than by door-to-door canvasing (I have never had a petition volunteer ever come cold-calling to my door).

The big questions are how organized GWI and affiliated right-wing/anti-tax groups are and how much are they willing to spend on the referendum-industrial complex.

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06-19-2012, 09:56 PM
  #43
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06-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #44
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I believe state statute changed two years ago and you have up be a registered voter in AZ to collect petition signatures. There are two or three folks locally that collect signatures for a fee (typically $3 to $4/ signature), I would imagine that fee goes up if they have 2 or 3 weeks. Do folks like the water guy strike you as someone with $8k to throw at this?

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06-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #45
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Not trying to troll or anything, but can someone give me an update about what has happened, what needs to happen for the deal that would keep them in Phoenix to go through, and what needs to happen for that deal to not go through

Once again not trying to be mean or anything, just want to understand what is going on

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06-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #46
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I hope they can't get the signatures, but all of this mess is still going to make it very difficult for us to keep Whitney.
And Doan. He'd have to be reckless to sign a one year deal, and he can't sign a multi year deal unless the ownership situation is solved. I'd completely respect his choice if he decided to sign elsewhere.

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06-19-2012, 10:10 PM
  #47
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The majority of petition signatures are gathered by first hand personal contacts and volunteers or paid signature gatherers in public spaces (I have been accosted by both many times) rather than by door-to-door canvasing (I have never had a petition volunteer ever come cold-calling to my door).

The big questions are how organized GWI and affiliated right-wing/anti-tax groups are and how much are they willing to spend on the referendum-industrial complex.
Here is the deal with collections: I can get more effective and efficient by targeting and knocking doors of people I know are registered. Standing out front of a grocery store has a low yield and is riddled with errors and invalid signatures. Typcally Dems knock doors, Republicans hit major gatherings and grocery stores for votes/ signatures.

What's a wild card here is that this is not a partisan ballot, any R or D or I or L could sign.

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06-19-2012, 10:13 PM
  #48
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The whole thing with the council woman not showing up and not voting was totally orchestrated. The NHL needs to sick their lawyers on that and dig up enough information to sue the hell out of the Gold Fish Institute.

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06-19-2012, 10:16 PM
  #49
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06-19-2012, 10:19 PM
  #50
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Why does that matter? I thought 4-2 or 4-3 was essentially the same results...they needed 5 to allow for an Emergency measure?

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