HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Penguins to trade "a defenseman or two"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-20-2012, 07:22 AM
  #126
bigd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PavelBure10 View Post
The Pens are definately expecting Joe Morrow to make the team this year. He could of made last years team. He was one of the last team cuts. There was just no need for the Pens to rush Morrow, and it was probably best for him to continue to work on his development in juniors. Morrow will be ready this year, and now the team needs to make room for him in the top 6.

I see Paul Martin being one of the defensemen the Penguins are looking to get rid of. Probably in a "soft" deal.
That's totally false. The Pens will not start Morrow off with the big club. There are too many NHL ready D-men ahead of him. If they don't get rid of at least 2, then Despres may even be back in WBS to start the season.

bigd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 07:32 AM
  #127
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,686
vCash: 500
Tampa will not be trading Malone for Martin unless Pitt adds something to entice us too. I wouldn't mind having Bortuzzo, what kind of pick or pick+prospect would it take?

HoseEmDown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 07:49 AM
  #128
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 22,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Tampa will not be trading Malone for Martin unless Pitt adds something to entice us too. I wouldn't mind having Bortuzzo, what kind of pick or pick+prospect would it take?
a solid wing prospect.

wej20 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 08:08 AM
  #129
Blitzburgh87*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,647
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
a solid wing prospect.
Take tangradi. And the ads on this page are getting freaking ridiculous.

Blitzburgh87* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 09:12 AM
  #130
Greg Schuler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 167
vCash: 500
The problem with Lovejoy's value is that there are any number of similar players available that have his same skill set to fill out the bottom pairing defense for a team. Unless a team really likes Lovejoy specifically, his value is incremental over the players already in the system for the other teams.

Add in the fact he is on a one-way deal and waivers and he has little value before you even begin to discuss the quality of his play. The Pens clearly erred in giving the contract to Lovejoy and cleaning that up will be difficult unless he is included as part of a larger deal as a take-back.

As far as Martin - he might have value aside from the contract based on his skillset, but teams know Pittsburgh wants to move him and that decreases his value. He's tradeable, but Pittsburgh is trading his contract rather than production.

Greg Schuler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 09:14 AM
  #131
Muscles4Malkin
Top-6 Beau
 
Muscles4Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turku
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
Not too familar with the Penguins roster. Is there a player that fits in as a 4th, 5th or 6th defenseman and wouldn't be too expensive?
Niskanen (RFA) will sign for around $2.5M.

Lovejoy could be 6th, but not higher. Then we have NHL-ready guys like Strait and Bortuzzo for 5th or 6th role in near future.

Engelland is something we want to keep and our prospects (Despres, Morrow, Harrington)

Muscles4Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 09:32 AM
  #132
SuburbanRhythm
WorldClassJagoff
 
SuburbanRhythm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Schuler View Post
The problem with Lovejoy's value is that there are any number of similar players available that have his same skill set to fill out the bottom pairing defense for a team. Unless a team really likes Lovejoy specifically, his value is incremental over the players already in the system for the other teams.

Add in the fact he is on a one-way deal and waivers and he has little value before you even begin to discuss the quality of his play. The Pens clearly erred in giving the contract to Lovejoy and cleaning that up will be difficult unless he is included as part of a larger deal as a take-back.

As far as Martin - he might have value aside from the contract based on his skillset, but teams know Pittsburgh wants to move him and that decreases his value. He's tradeable, but Pittsburgh is trading his contract rather than production.
He's making league minimum at $525K. Any player in that spot is making the same, if not more. So either he's on the roster, at league minimum cap hit. He's waived, another teams picks him up, Penguins slot someone else, at the same salary, in that #7 spot. He's waived at clears, and plays in WBS, and doesn't count against the cap, and is replaced by someone else, at the same salary, in that #7 spot.

His contract is in no way a liability. Now, his play on the ice....that's another matter.

SuburbanRhythm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 09:37 AM
  #133
Giskard
Registered User
 
Giskard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alps
Country: Italy
Posts: 612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
He's making league minimum at $525K. Any player in that spot is making the same, if not more. So either he's on the roster, at league minimum cap hit. He's waived, another teams picks him up, Penguins slot someone else, at the same salary, in that #7 spot. He's waived at clears, and plays in WBS, and doesn't count against the cap, and is replaced by someone else, at the same salary, in that #7 spot.

His contract is in no way a liability. Now, his play on the ice....that's another matter.
Exactly, if no other teams wants Lovejoy (I don't belive it), he could still be usefull in WBS.

Giskard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 09:56 AM
  #134
NastyNick
Registered User
 
NastyNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,049
vCash: 500
Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik. Martin is the man whose head the masses are calling for. I am not convinced he deserves it. He had a bad year, 2010 was much better for him. He may yet turn it around. The fan base wants him to go, and i thought Shero will oblige.

Orpik has been on a steady decline since 2009. Outside of hitting he can't do anything well. If there was an anti-crosby movement in the locker room, i expect it would have its roots with Orpik too. (he has the most seniority on the team). I think Shero pulls the trigger and unloads Orpik while he still has some value. Engelland can then step up and take his place.

NastyNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:05 AM
  #135
BrawlFan
Registered User
 
BrawlFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,775
vCash: 500
Sens take Martin GLADLY! He is so underated in Pittsburgh, he was a beast in NJ...

Hmm because of his possible negative value I'd do something like a B level scoring prospect + 2nd

BrawlFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:09 AM
  #136
Flat Stanley
Registered User
 
Flat Stanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,265
vCash: 500
I don't think Martin has negative value, Shero's not going to dump his salary, he said if he trades a D man it will be for a guy who can help the team now, not prospects/picks.

And with that said, I don't think Pittsburgh needs to add anything for a team to take on his contract, because Pittsburgh will be getting a contract in return. If there's a team who needs a PMD who can skate and pass and play good defensively in a system that fits his style, then Shero can look for a player on that team that will help the Pens now.

But that's a good proposal IMO, don't get me wrong.

Flat Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #137
TorstenFrings
Co-Trainer
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kiel
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Schuler View Post
The problem with Lovejoy's value is that there are any number of similar players available that have his same skill set to fill out the bottom pairing defense for a team. Unless a team really likes Lovejoy specifically, his value is incremental over the players already in the system for the other teams.

Add in the fact he is on a one-way deal and waivers and he has little value before you even begin to discuss the quality of his play. The Pens clearly erred in giving the contract to Lovejoy and cleaning that up will be difficult unless he is included as part of a larger deal as a take-back.

As far as Martin - he might have value aside from the contract based on his skillset, but teams know Pittsburgh wants to move him and that decreases his value. He's tradeable, but Pittsburgh is trading his contract rather than production.
I don't think anyone expects to get anything noteable in return for Lovejoy, obviously his value isn't great. The "someone will take a chance on him, he is a serviceable cheap #6" is more about him and his chances to stay in the NHL as opposed to being waived and demoted. I'd rather see him given away for future considerations than send down for his sake. He is not our ticket to some spectacular deal, that much is obvious.

TorstenFrings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #138
Ugene Malkin
I'm Score
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 22,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NastyNick View Post
Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik. Martin is the man whose head the masses are calling for. I am not convinced he deserves it. He had a bad year, 2010 was much better for him. He may yet turn it around. The fan base wants him to go, and i thought Shero will oblige.

Orpik has been on a steady decline since 2009. Outside of hitting he can't do anything well. If there was an anti-crosby movement in the locker room, i expect it would have its roots with Orpik too. (he has the most seniority on the team). I think Shero pulls the trigger and unloads Orpik while he still has some value. Engelland can then step up and take his place.
The bold is just nonsense, and Orpik is their only true physical D-man who can even remotely clear the crease. Who do you have taking his place other than Engelland?

Right, no one, they need to add one.

Martin is just a lot of the same and a luxury who doesn't fit into the scheme/system of the team. Especially with how the league is going forward with the clutch and grab/interference makes a team full of PMD's very redundant. The Pens don't need that cap hit with who are certain to be coming up from the ranks real soon. Last season was just the icing on the cake. Without a defensive orientated structure in place Martin is out of his comfort zone.

Doesn't in any way make him a bad player, just a bad fit. He was fine when both stars were out and they played a more team structured defensive system, but when everyone started getting healthy it was almost nonexistent.

Dan Blysma system was keep the puck in the offensive zone as long as they could. That left for very bad turnovers at the bluelines trying to keep the puck in and trying to get it out.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:30 AM
  #139
Burgs
Registered User
 
Burgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,910
vCash: 500
I doubt Michalek is a trade candidate. He had hip surgery in May and isn't guaranteed to be ready for training camp. He's also less expensive than Martin who (at least this past season's version) could be replaced with a re-signed Niskanen at half the cap hit. In turn Niskanen is replaced with Despres. If Shero can find a good deal for Martin he will take it. If not, he'll keep him and hope the guy has a better season and more trade value later.

Engelland will 100% not be traded. He is worth much more to the Pens than he will be in a trade. A solid 5th/6th defenseman making peanuts and among the better fighters in the league, on a team with currently no other fighters (Asham is UFA) and a generally soft defense? Engo is not on the table.

But Lovejoy is being pushed off the roster by the now waiver-eligible Strait and Bortuzzo. He hasn't taken the next step with the Pens but could still be a mobile and dirt cheap bottom pairing defender on a team with little depth on D.

Burgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:31 AM
  #140
Ugene Malkin
I'm Score
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 22,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
I don't think anyone expects to get anything noteable in return for Lovejoy, obviously his value isn't great. The "someone will take a chance on him, he is a serviceable cheap #6" is more about him and his chances to stay in the NHL as opposed to being waived and demoted. I'd rather see him given away for future considerations than send down for his sake. He is not our ticket to some spectacular deal, that much is obvious.
I don't see how the Pens waiving him and a team picking him up at minimal cap hit is gonna hurt most teams in need of a #6/#7.

I just don't see teams wasting an asset on him. Maybe a 6th/7th at best.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:34 AM
  #141
khaoskennedy
Registered User
 
khaoskennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
Sens take Martin GLADLY! He is so underated in Pittsburgh, he was a beast in NJ...

Hmm because of his possible negative value I'd do something like a B level scoring prospect + 2nd
Puempel + 2nd? (assuming that may be too much just throwing it out there)

khaoskennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:46 AM
  #142
TorstenFrings
Co-Trainer
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kiel
Country: Germany
Posts: 4,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I don't see how the Pens waiving him and a team picking him up at minimal cap hit is gonna hurt most teams in need of a #6/#7.

I just don't see teams wasting an asset on him. Maybe a 6th/7th at best.
I wasn't arguing against that at all though, just saying he may not have value in trade, but that doesn't mean he can't have value to any team ever. Personally I'd rather give him away for free than ever place him on waivers, but in the end I am cool with it either way.

TorstenFrings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:53 AM
  #143
Flat Stanley
Registered User
 
Flat Stanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaoskennedy View Post
Puempel + 2nd? (assuming that may be too much just throwing it out there)
I would do it, I don't know if Ottawa would though lol.

Flat Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 10:56 AM
  #144
dr robbie
Let's Go Pens!
 
dr robbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: St. Louis
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,508
vCash: 500
Honestly, with the way our D looked post season, I wouldn't mind anyone being traded aside from Letang. Orpik and M are (can be?) studs, but wouldn't call them bulletproof my any means right now.

dr robbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:02 AM
  #145
Karnage420
Registered User
 
Karnage420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
Martin looked SO good in the tampa series two playoffs ago. its hard to see how he's fallen off so badly.

maybe he regains his form this year. i have a feeling its going to be orpik and lovejoy out. martin might not hold as much value this year.

Karnage420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:10 AM
  #146
Tender Rip
Learning from Scuds?
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Schuler View Post
The problem with Lovejoy's value is that there are any number of similar players available that have his same skill set to fill out the bottom pairing defense for a team. Unless a team really likes Lovejoy specifically, his value is incremental over the players already in the system for the other teams.
It is pretty simple. Lovejoy can skate really well, has OK size, can play bigger minutes when injuries happen, and has been quietly effective for the vast majority of his outings. It is simply not easy to find that at league minimum.

To date he has had 95 regular season games in the NHL, contributed 25 points and was a +22, coming in and out of the team, as needs dictated.
Less successful in the playoffs, but better players have been made to look bad by Martin St.Louis.

No Pittsburgh fan expects to get more than a mid-round pick for him, tops, because he is never going to be more than a third pairing D-man most likely. But there are teams in the NHL who had significantly worse on their third pairings last season, and at his cap-hit, he is a guy many teams could use. There is no doubt he would be kept in Pittsburgh if we didn't have to give young D-men with higher ceilings and more pedigree like Strait and Bortuzzo one contracts this off-season. It is purely a numbers game. Somewhere else, the numbers will be different.
Personally I think he will likely end up traded to Islanders or Tampa where such a cheap 6/7 utility player on D could be well used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Schuler View Post
As far as Martin - he might have value aside from the contract based on his skillset, but teams know Pittsburgh wants to move him and that decreases his value. He's tradeable, but Pittsburgh is trading his contract rather than production.
Certainly on HF..... He had a poor season last year - and a worse playoffs, and THAT will decrease his value at his cap-hit. But we'll see what happens when top4 D-men challenged teams scramble after the (few) prime UFA D-men have gone on July 1st. I'm betting there'll be crow for all those "He has negative value!" tossers .

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:21 AM
  #147
gordie
Registered User
 
gordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
Martin looked SO good in the tampa series two playoffs ago. its hard to see how he's fallen off so badly.

maybe he regains his form this year. i have a feeling its going to be orpik and lovejoy out. martin might not hold as much value this year.
Who is still coaching the Pens? Have you also noticed Michalek has also fallen off pretty badly since signing from Phoenix?

gordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:46 AM
  #148
Giskard
Registered User
 
Giskard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alps
Country: Italy
Posts: 612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Who is still coaching the Pens?
The last Jack Adams Award winner?

Giskard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:51 AM
  #149
SIDGENO8771
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
Sens take Martin GLADLY! He is so underated in Pittsburgh, he was a beast in NJ...

Hmm because of his possible negative value I'd do something like a B level scoring prospect + 2nd
Silferberg + 2012 2nd

SIDGENO8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2012, 11:57 AM
  #150
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 14,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Silferberg + 2012 2nd
There is no chance of that happening, I can 100% assure you of that. Silfverberg is about to become an integral piece of our top 6.

I thought Pittsburgh might want to dump Martin and Michalek, but judging by some of these prices I was wrong.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.