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The Official Offseason Thread (Part VII) - "GIVE US BOOBY RYAN!"

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06-19-2012, 10:53 PM
  #176
GregSirico
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GOD, he is SOOO good

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06-19-2012, 10:53 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Just look at the pure offensive abilities. Please tell me who can do this on our team:

I can give u a Rick Nash highlight reel too and he would cost forwards not our best dmen

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06-19-2012, 10:56 PM
  #178
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Agreed.

Past years no real attachment, maybe some but not like this. I have a lot of respect for these guys because they play hard every night.
Seriously, I mean I understand the need to suck it up and make the team better because no single player is above it but I just get really sad at the thought of letting go of Girardi/Staal/Dubinsky when these guys bust their ass every game.

You want them to be a part of it when the Cup comes to town.

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06-19-2012, 10:56 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I can give u a Rick Nash highlight reel too and he would cost forwards not our best dmen
Oh hi there Mr. Howson, why are you so insistent on asking for half of our team for Nash. You have no idea what a deal for Nash would include.

Ryan: 4 years younger, just as good a scorer, amazing contract.

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06-19-2012, 10:57 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Ok, now show the defense.
There are too many variables at this point: whether you deal Staal or Girardi, whether one of Erixon or McIlrath is needed to complete the deal, whether Sauer can come back, whether we sign Schultz or not.

But what we do know is that without both Staal and Sauer, with scrubs like Bickel, Eminger, and Woywitka playing, this team's defense was elite. It won't need to be elite, just very good, if we had a legit first line LW.

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06-19-2012, 10:57 PM
  #181
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I wouldn't trade staal girardi mcd or kreider but I'm lying if I wouldn't trade kreider before any of them. One forward for another makes more sense than a stud d man for a forward when u have a defensive minded coach especially

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06-19-2012, 10:58 PM
  #182
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Seriously, I mean I understand the need to suck it up and make the team better because no single player is above it but I just get really sad at the thought of letting go of Girardi/Staal/Dubinsky when these guys bust their ass every game.

You want them to be a part of it when the Cup comes to town.
It's a lot easier for me to get rid of the 3rd one you mentioned

No sellers remorse there.

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06-19-2012, 10:58 PM
  #183
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I love this time of year - especially as we get closer to the draft. So much to discuss...

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So people want to break up the best top 4 d in the league to get more scoring instead of a forward who nash or ryan would score more?
Again, if any one of Staal, McD or MDZ could play at the same level on the RIGHT side, you'd have a point. Unfortunately, they're all lefties, which means either one is underutilized or is playing his off position, where he's not as effective. We saw this for much of last year with MDZ. Given those 3 plus Erixon in the system, yes, I think we can break up the current corps - for the right player.

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Straight up? I agree, if the player is Staal (the right side is too weak to trade Girardi), but adding in a forward and a 1st? Just way too much to give. Staal should get it done. Actually, I'd argue that Staal is the more valuable player. Top pairing shutdown defenseman of Staal's caliber are harder to find than a 30-goal winger. Ryan has the size, yes, but he's more Jeff Carter than Nash. Doesn't really use his size all too well, most of the time, at least.

Defenseman and centerman are the most valuable players in this league. A good defenseman can get you a king's ransom.
COM-pletely agreed. It would hurt, but I could trade Staal for Ryan.

We shouldn't have to add significant value in the form of another top 9 plus a pick/prospect, however - Staal even up is more than fair.

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2 things:

1) even breaking it up Lundqvist could make up the difference in the short term hit we take.

2) I think you're seriously devaluing Erixon here. You know he's going to be a stud but you're trying to justify your point, it's just going to take him a little while longer to develop. Add in Schultz possibly and our defense is still incredible.
Agreed. The Rangers were one of the best defensive teams in the league first without Staal and then with Staal at a fraction of his normal self all the way up until the playoffs. Again, I'm not looking to give him away, but with Erixon in the system, the team can not only give him up, but eventually thrive without him.

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This is just like the Jesus Montero discussions. Someone expendable for a dominant pitcher but was untouchabe to fans for anyone but Felix. Kreider will be very good and stepan too but Nash or Ryan will exceed their goals who replaces one of the top 2 shutdown dmen?
So, wait... is this an argument for or against? I'm assuming it's against, so I'll point out that a) it was still the right trade - you can't anticipate injuries, b) the Yanks lead all of baseball in wins withOUT montero and c) Montero's just okay so far in Seattle (although a lot of that can be put on the team around him and his home ballpark).

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06-19-2012, 10:59 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I wouldn't trade staal girardi mcd or kreider but I'm lying if I wouldn't trade kreider before any of them. One forward for another makes more sense than a stud d man for a forward when u have a defensive minded coach especially
We don't have a defensive minded coach. We have a team that doesn't have enough offensive talent, which forces the coach to rely heavily on defense.

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06-19-2012, 11:01 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
It's a lot easier for me to get rid of the 3rd one you mentioned

No sellers remorse there.
You a cold man.

Dubinsky takes a lot of **** (deservedly) but I also remember the years where he played great and really helped build this team.

I'm sure this would all change if we get bounced in the playoffs again due to lack of scoring.

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06-19-2012, 11:02 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I love this time of year - especially as we get closer to the draft. So much to discuss...



Again, if any one of Staal, McD or MDZ could play at the same level on the RIGHT side, you'd have a point. Unfortunately, they're all lefties, which means either one is underutilized or is playing his off position, where he's not as effective. We saw this for much of last year with MDZ. Given those 3 plus Erixon in the system, yes, I think we can break up the current corps - for the right player.



COM-pletely agreed. It would hurt, but I could trade Staal for Ryan.

We shouldn't have to add significant value in the form of another top 9 plus a pick/prospect, however - Staal even up is more than fair.



Agreed. The Rangers were one of the best defensive teams in the league first without Staal and then with Staal at a fraction of his normal self all the way up until the playoffs. Again, I'm not looking to give him away, but with Erixon in the system, the team can not only give him up, but eventually thrive without him.



So, wait... is this an argument for or against? I'm assuming it's against, so I'll point out that a) it was still the right trade - you can't anticipate injuries, b) the Yanks lead all of baseball in wins withOUT montero and c) Montero's just okay so far in Seattle (although a lot of that can be put on the team around him and his home ballpark).
No my point is much like the majority of fans here, Yankee fans got attached to Montero inc myself and didn't want to give him up for anyone despite being expendable bc of who we have already same w kreider. Ryan-Richards-gaborik. Callahan-stepan-anis/dubi/ufa and u keep the best d in the league no brainer

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:06 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Playmaking centers and stud offensive defenseman or stud two way defenseman are the most valuable players in this league. In other words legit #1 C or D. Staal and Girardi are simply not impact players offensively, especially the latter. A guy like Ryan, who isn't even near his prime yet and (I think) will have multiple 40 goal seasons, is always going to be more valuable than a guy like Staal. Show me the last time a defenseman who wasn't an impact player on offense brought back a huge haul in a deal.

Also, I hate Jeff Carter. Ryan is better than Jeff Carter. He doesn't use his size enough, but that's an issue for Nash, too. And what I like about Ryan is he seems like he wants to be the man, which tells me there is the potential for him to improve. Is Nash better? Yes, but Nash is not an option. That contract can't be an option.
Depends on needs/wants. Staal is a #1 defenseman on plenty of NHL teams. To me, a #1D is a defenseman that can make a consistent positive impact on the ice for the 23-27 minutes he is on. He's obviously only average offensively, but he provides a decent enough contribution on that side. It's not as if he's Stu Bickel. Personally, a shutdown defenseman of Staal's caliber is more important than a, say, Del Zotto type. For me, a valuable defenseman is above average defensively. Two-way D and shutdown D are the most valuable in my opinion.

As for Ryan, thinking more, he reminds me a lot of Carter. Disappears for a while and then scores a pretty goal to take the focus off of the fact that he was floating most of the time. I think Ryan has more potential than Carter, since, as you put it, he wants to be the #1 offensive player on his team, but he needs to do it consistently, and use his size to do it. He doesn't, as of now, and that concerns me.

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06-19-2012, 11:08 PM
  #188
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No my point is much like the majority of fans here, Yankee fans got attached to Montero inc myself and didn't want to give him up for anyone despite being expendable bc of who we have already same w kreider. Ryan-Richards-gaborik. Callahan-stepan-anis/dubi/ufa and u keep the best d in the league no brainer
Hahahaha. I'll agree that Montero serves as a very effective argument... as to why we can afford to trade one of the LH d-men.

Kreider? No way in hell.

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06-19-2012, 11:08 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
No my point is much like the majority of fans here, Yankee fans got attached to Montero inc myself and didn't want to give him up for anyone despite being expendable bc of who we have already same w kreider. Ryan-Richards-gaborik. Callahan-stepan-anis/dubi/ufa and u keep the best d in the league no brainer
Montero and Kreider are completely different.

Montero could not play the field. You cant have him as a full time DH when your highest paid players are inching closer to 40 and need days off. The yankees needed pitching.

Rangers need scoring. Kreider fits that need. You don't trade him.

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06-19-2012, 11:09 PM
  #190
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I would move MDZ before Staal every day of the week.

But that doesn't work with the Ducks' needs.

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06-19-2012, 11:10 PM
  #191
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Hahahaha. I'll agree that Montero serves as a very effective argument... as to why we can afford to trade one of the LH d-men.

Kreider? No way in hell.
Right now Nash or Ryan > kreider is that not true? So not only is it a forward for a forward, we get the better one right now

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06-19-2012, 11:11 PM
  #192
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Montero and Kreider are completely different.

Montero could not play the field. You cant have him as a full time DH when your highest paid players are inching closer to 40 and need days off. The yankees needed pitching.

Rangers need scoring. Kreider fits that need. You don't trade him.
So would Nash or Ryan and they would score more

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06-19-2012, 11:11 PM
  #193
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Montero and Kreider are completely different.

Montero could not play the field. You cant have him as a full time DH when your highest paid players are inching closer to 40 and need days off. The yankees needed pitching.

Rangers need scoring. Kreider fits that need. You don't trade him.
Agreed. Kreider might be the hardest player to pry from the Rangers right now (other than McD and Hank) given a) the position he plays, b) the skills he brings, c) the Rangers' particular strengths/weaknesses and d) the fact that he's got 2 more years left on his entry level contract.

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06-19-2012, 11:14 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Right now Nash or Ryan > kreider is that not true? So not only is it a forward for a forward, we get the better one right now
Kreider scored 5 goals in 20 games. Nash had trouble scoring 30 over 82 games. Same with Ryan. How much better are they? Oh thats right its their NAME.

If Sather was going to deal Kreider it wouldve been at deadline when Howson wanted him and he hadnt played an NHL game yet. Sather wanted Nash badly too. Now he's going to trade him after he was the rangers best offensive threat in the playoffs?

Please save yourself the embarrassment and stop dropping his name even if its a hypothetical

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06-19-2012, 11:16 PM
  #195
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Kreider scored 5 goals in 20 games. Nash had trouble scoring 30 over 82 games. Same with Ryan. How much better are they? Oh thats right its their NAME.

If Sather was going to deal Kreider it wouldve been at deadline when Howson wanted him and he hadnt played an NHL game yet. Now he's going to trade after he was the rangers best offensive threat in the playoffs.

Please save yourself the embarrassment and stop dropping his name even if its a hypothetical
it is hypothetical, I'm not trading.any of the 4 but anyone who is willling to trade girardi or staal are insane

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06-19-2012, 11:16 PM
  #196
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Right now Nash or Ryan > kreider is that not true? So not only is it a forward for a forward, we get the better one right now
It wouldn't be a 1-1 swap... Then you factor in salaries in a cap world. Kreider does not/should not get moved.

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06-19-2012, 11:17 PM
  #197
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I would NOT deal Kreider for Ryan.

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06-19-2012, 11:17 PM
  #198
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And people who keep bringing up Nash barely scoring 30 don't seem to put much stock into the team he plays for

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06-19-2012, 11:18 PM
  #199
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Right now Nash or Ryan > kreider is that not true? So not only is it a forward for a forward, we get the better one right now
But why trade something you need (scoring) for something you need (scoring)? Makes no sense.

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06-19-2012, 11:18 PM
  #200
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I would NOT deal Kreider for Ryan.
Me either. Nor girardi nor staal. Keep Ryan in that case

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