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Burke will have tough decision to make on Gardiner

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #76
hotpaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Nope that's just your opinion, in the real world other GM's have asked for our quality pieces in return for quality NHL'ers.
I think it's your opinion as well since you can't name any expenable quality pieces .

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06-20-2012, 09:58 AM
  #77
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People are saying no to trading Gardiner, over and over again. If Burke trades him, I hope it is for an equally special forward. For instance, everyone is talking about Staal, Statsny and Ryan. So, I'm gonna throw out an idea that's a little different and the only kind of deal that I would be alright with trading Gardiner.

To Colorado: Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Mike Komisarek

To Toronto: Matt Duschene, Ryan O'Byrne

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06-20-2012, 09:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
My point is that nether jumping to defend nor jumping to denounce a scouts opinion at first glance makes much sense to me but if I were to be forced to make a decision, it would be based almost solely on what my 10 scouts had to say about the issue.
Definitely, McKenzie is not a scout and so he uses them as he should.

As for getting a good number of players correct in the first round every year, we did that last year using about 5 scouting reports. Obviously, not everyone here is going to purchase those reports like we did last year, so McKenzie is great in that regard.

However, realistically if the Leafs have 19 scouts and all the other teams have half as many, we're looking at 10 out of 300 scouts when McKenzie talks. That is just NHL scouts, not including the agencies.

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06-20-2012, 10:00 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I think it's your opinion as well since you can't name any expenable quality pieces .
I don't need to name anyone but they're there and we still have them.

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06-20-2012, 10:01 AM
  #80
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Somehow the stupidity of trading Gardiner to move up in the draft isn't realized by a lot of people and they instead consider it a given.

And that conversation with a scout looks like BS.


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06-20-2012, 10:06 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
I don't need to name anyone but they're there and we still have them.
They're there but you keep refusing to name them , are they a big secret between you and Bust ?

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06-20-2012, 10:09 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
They're there but you keep refusing to name them , are they a big secret between you and Bust ?
Nope there's no secret, it's what makes this whole no quality schtick in our pipeline rather amusing.

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06-20-2012, 10:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Nope there's no secret, it's what makes this whole no quality schtick in our pipeline rather amusing.
What schtick ? Either you can name these high quality expendable assets or you can't . Since you can't come up with even one name i'll take that as we don't have any .

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06-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #84
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**** it, I don't want to get involved lol.

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06-20-2012, 10:43 AM
  #85
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I can't agree with the article. I think Gardiner alone would net the 1st OA from Edmonton. They get a top level defensive prospect who virtually guarantees them Schultz as well.

Schultz incentive to sign with Edmonton + Gardiner = 1st OA.

I would strongly consider this as an option.

Gardiner + 5th OA for Yakupov? I would hang up and mail Tambellini a bag of poop.

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06-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
What schtick ? Either you can name these high quality expendable assets or you can't . Since you can't come up with even one name i'll take that as we don't have any .
One or two of:

Luke Schenn
Jake Gardiner
John-Michael Liles
Kolbinian Holzer
Jesse Blacker
Stuart Percy

and:

Nazem Kadri

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06-20-2012, 10:59 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
So basically your whole argument is based on a tautology. Ok then.

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06-20-2012, 10:59 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
Yes, I am. And I feel that most of the NHL brass feels the same way.

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06-20-2012, 11:00 AM
  #89
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Hinted at this yesterday, Mike Russo scooped everyone on the Harding signing, by being a day ahead of it.

Mike Russo is also the guy that said he thought Justin Schultz had made up his mind where he was signing, Toronto. Yes I hate to set everyone up for a let down if this isn't true, but let's say there is a 51% chance it is true, then trading Gardiner would cut that % in half.

There is No way Gardiner is going anywhere come Friday night.

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06-20-2012, 11:01 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
The General Managers who take risk will end up paying off in the long run. Dean Lombardi took multiple trade gambles with Mike Richards and then going after Jeff Carter in multi asset deals. The Kings are now champions.

The time is right to upgrade the talent pool for this team and forge ahead by taking some risk.
The Kings started rebuilding in 2003 and waited until 2011 to take any risks at all. Lombardi, over and over again stockpiled draft picks, until he got to the point he could afford to move B Schenn for an immediate upgrade because they had the depth to do so. Burke is still stockpiling, and in a year or two might be able to afford to move a Gardiner type prospect for an immediate, significant upgrade. Doing that today makes no sense for the Leafs.

The Leafs prospects are still young and carving out a niche for themselves. Another 6 months and we'll some some guys blossom. Colborne, Kadri, Blacker, Ashton, Percy are all players to watch the next few years.

This next season, we should continue to stockpile, unless a perfect deal is available. Gardiner to move up? Nah, not the right time for that. Colborne, Schenn, MacA for the 2nd overall? That's a little better. Not that it's available from Columbus, but you gotta take a shot.

Sorry, back to this year. This year should be about replacing Connolly with Colborne, MacA with Kadri, Komo with Holzer, Army with Komorov, Lombardi with Ashton etc etc. We'll go into next summer with a young line-up, who have NHL experience, and cap space to make the changes required to fill the holes in our line-up. This is not the year to go into a "playoffs or bust" mentality.

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06-20-2012, 11:03 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Folks on this board have no respect for what anybody says in the media. They think anybody in the media is clueless, untrustworthy, dishonest and conniving. Nobody in the media as far as I can tell gets the stamp of approval on HF Boards. Not one single journalist, analyst or talking head.
I think a lot of the media is full of crap too (especially Simmons and Cox) but it is rather silly for people to be slamming Simmons for an article he didn't even write. In other words, slamming something without having read it.

That being said, I disagree with the article too.

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06-20-2012, 11:06 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Looks like more than a scout isn't convinced about the Leafs supposed prospect strength.

If we are to believe scouts ...
'Several' could mean 3-4. And out of how many scouts in the NHL?

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06-20-2012, 11:07 AM
  #93
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Burkes decision is easy. You don't trade gardiner for anything but massive overpayment. Phaneuf and Liles are older and Schenn Komo and Holzer Arnt exactly puck movers.. That leaves gunner and transon, one of which I see getting dealt . So we're not exactly trading from a point of strength.. You win games with scoring but you win championships with D.

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06-20-2012, 11:09 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Reasons for fans to want to keep Gardiner:

-the ducks fleecing
-he's *relatively young
-he can skate fast and is fairly composed on the PP

Reasons for Burke to want to move Gardiner:

-he's a defensive liability
-his ceiling is a poor man's Campbell
- he's not tough
- his points don't amount to anything: PP goals or winning goals


If anything BB has fooled the world into believing that JG is going to be an elite defenseman of the future. I say we get maximum return for him now and run with it.

*warning: he's not 18 either

He is 21 with a single full season under his belt and yet he is being written off for being a defensive liability? Gimme a break, he needs time to develop. And how in God's name can you predict his ceiling based on the limited data set available?

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06-20-2012, 11:09 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
One or two of:

Luke Schenn
Jake Gardiner
John-Michael Liles
Kolbinian Holzer
Jesse Blacker
Stuart Percy

and:

Nazem Kadri
Is Gardiner expendable in you opinion because i don't believe we can trade him without leaving a hole .

Schenn/Kads have some value as do Blacker and Percy but what do you think packaging 2 of these players will get you .

JML value is very low and why do you think Holzer has any value outside as a throw in ?

I never said we don't have some assets but if you're going to go after a high end player no one on that list outside of Gardiner has the potential value to make another team interested .

The Kings had the high quality expenable assets to aquire Richards/Carter , we have no where near these type of expenable assets .

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06-20-2012, 11:11 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Amazing.

So a rookie defenseman is a defensive liability? Who would have thought it? Can't expect them to ever improve. What you see is what you get?

PP and winning goals - good
Any other point earned - not so much

Maybe the NHL should only count those. Save everyone a lot of time and effort. Every game could end 1 - 0
Nah, Bettman is going to go the opposite way and start awarding three pointers like in the NBA.

Nice guitars in the avatar by the way...what are they?

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06-20-2012, 11:21 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
Maybe my view is wrong, but: if Burke is unwilling to trade Gardiner or, to a lesser extent the #1 pick, then nothing of significance will come to Toronto via a trade this off-season.
If were talking about trading gardiner I wouldn't be happy unless the return was a proven number 1 center, not a goalie :S

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06-20-2012, 11:47 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Amazing.

So a rookie defenseman is a defensive liability? Who would have thought it? Can't expect them to ever improve. What you see is what you get?

PP and winning goals - good
Any other point earned - not so much

Maybe the NHL should only count those. Save everyone a lot of time and effort. Every game could end 1 - 0
The answer to all of your questions is yes.

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06-20-2012, 11:52 AM
  #99
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Perhaps this post is better suited here.

Posted 6 mins ago.

Brian Burke suggests that the Edmonton Oilers are not shopping the first overall pick, and that if they are the Toronto Maple Leafs aren’t that interested

Quote:
I have no sense from Edmonton that that pick is in play. I can tell you that. If someone is actively trying to get that pick it’s not us
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...at-interested/

This should end the Gardiner speculation.

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06-20-2012, 11:56 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post

The Kings had the high quality expenable assets to aquire Richards/Carter , we have no where near these type of expenable assets .
It took them a lot of years to get to that point though. They were made fun of for stockpiling for many years coming out of the lockout.

Adding Schultz and whoever at #5 might make it a bit easier to move assets in the future. But we still need some time. We need to see exactly what we have in Kadri, Blacker, Colborne, Ashton, Biggs, Percy, D'Amigo to know how much quality we have in our depth. LA used a lot of mid-1st round picks to add to their depth, with Doughty their top 2 pick. We will see LACK move on soon, and our core is still young (Kessel, Lupul, Grabs, Phaneuf) that they can still give 5-10 years of quality service as the young players continue to develop.

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