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Burke will have tough decision to make on Gardiner

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:03 PM
  #101
MajorityRules
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Nah, Bettman is going to go the opposite way and start awarding three pointers like in the NBA.

Nice guitars in the avatar by the way...what are they?
But I thought PP and game winners were the only thing that mattered?


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06-20-2012, 12:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Is Gardiner expendable in you opinion because i don't believe we can trade him without leaving a hole .

Schenn/Kads have some value as do Blacker and Percy but what do you think packaging 2 of these players will get you .

JML value is very low and why do you think Holzer has any value outside as a throw in ?

I never said we don't have some assets but if you're going to go after a high end player no one on that list outside of Gardiner has the potential value to make another team interested .

The Kings had the high quality expenable assets to aquire Richards/Carter , we have no where near these type of expenable assets .
I think you are absolutely correct. Taking your viewpoint doesn't neccessarily mean I would trade Gardiner however. But the reality is that he is probably the most sought after commodity that the Leafs own. I'd say Kadri was up there but his stock has slipped somewhat...Other than that we are talking about Phil Kessel...I believe. Phaneuf with his contract does not have as much value as some may think, IMO. LA certainly lands two studs because of the stockpiling of high end talent over the years of futility....Gardiner is good..I think anybody can see that. So if the average fan can see it...I'm pretty sure the scouts of teams looking to make deals do as well...which is why he is Burke's most valuable trading piece.

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06-20-2012, 12:16 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
The answer to all of your questions is yes.
Averaging 21.5 minutes a game over 75 games on a poor defensive team and ending up -2 is not a defensive liability.

He has a fair bit of development to do, but labeling him a liability is inaccurate.

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06-20-2012, 12:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I think you are absolutely correct. Taking your viewpoint doesn't neccessarily mean I would trade Gardiner however. But the reality is that he is probably the most sought after commodity that the Leafs own. I'd say Kadri was up there but his stock has slipped somewhat...Other than that we are talking about Phil Kessel...I believe. Phaneuf with his contract does not have as much value as some may think, IMO. LA certainly lands two studs because of the stockpiling of high end talent over the years of futility....Gardiner is good..I think anybody can see that. So if the average fan can see it...I'm pretty sure the scouts of teams looking to make deals do as well...which is why he is Burke's most valuable trading piece.
The Kings traded J.Johnson and a 1st rounder for Carter

Im not sure most leaf fans or even management would trade Gardiner + mid 1st rounder for a player like Jeff Carter. Which I for one agree with, because I happen to think Carter sucks and that trade will come back to haunt them.

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06-20-2012, 12:35 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by deuce457 View Post
The Kings traded J.Johnson and a 1st rounder for Carter

Im not sure most leaf fans or even management would trade Gardiner + mid 1st rounder for a player like Jeff Carter. Which I for one agree with, because I happen to think Carter sucks and that trade will come back to haunt them.
So you didnt watch the LA Kings win the Cup final with Jeff Carter scoring some critical and timely goals then? If Carter did that for the Leafs....Columbus could have taken every damn Leaf prospect for the next 20 years...I couldn't give a crap because I wouldn't die without the Leafs ever winning a Cup. Get real. How is it going to haunt them? Is there a higher pinnacle to reach than winning the Stanley Cup?

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06-20-2012, 12:49 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by deuce457 View Post
The Kings traded J.Johnson and a 1st rounder for Carter

Im not sure most leaf fans or even management would trade Gardiner + mid 1st rounder for a player like Jeff Carter. Which I for one agree with, because I happen to think Carter sucks and that trade will come back to haunt them.
LA just won the cup. whatever happens from this point forward doesnt matter because no matter what you argue there response will be..."but we won the cup".

its like the same thing with the kaberle trade to boston. yes toronto got colborne, 1st, and a 2nd ....but boston won the cup so no one is crying about it.

imo there is a big difference between jj and gardiner. the first being jj is 25 , gardiner is 21. jj also makes $4.3 million x 7 years, gardiner makes $1 million and change. with jj howson knew exactly what he was getting, gardiner is still a prospect, its too soon to know if he is going to improve and become the next karlsson or regress like schenn a little bit?

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06-20-2012, 12:49 PM
  #107
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Burke needs to remain patient. Everyone is saying that all his prospects are garbage. Like a stock that's undervalued you wait it out. Even Gardiner will get better. As will Schenn, Kadri, Colborne, Ashton, Percy, Biggs, Ross, etc.

Seems only the Leafs can draft guys in the top 10 and they are worthless. Kadri can play with men. They just need to leave him up and give him ice. He's already better than half the Leaf forwards and has done some nice things.

The patience the media exhibits is laughable. Only in Toronto is Schenn at 22 a bust. Kadri at 20 a bust.

Find a goalie for cheap --- like Vokoun if Luongo isn't available. Draft 5th and take BPA. Don't package an NHL player with the pick for a pick a few higher -- for a guy that has as many question marks. Trade the bums like Armstrong, etc. and let the kids play.

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06-20-2012, 12:49 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
So you didnt watch the LA Kings win the Cup final with Jeff Carter scoring some critical and timely goals then? If Carter did that for the Leafs....Columbus could have taken every damn Leaf prospect for the next 20 years...I couldn't give a crap because I wouldn't die without the Leafs ever winning a Cup. Get real. How is it going to haunt them? Is there a higher pinnacle to reach than winning the Stanley Cup?
THIS! LA's record was flat out scary since that trade too. Aside from the 16-4 record in the playoffs they went completely off to end the regular season to get in.

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06-20-2012, 12:50 PM
  #109
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You don't trade Gardiner + our 1st for Jeff Carter.

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06-20-2012, 12:55 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Burke needs to remain patient. Everyone is saying that all his prospects are garbage. Like a stock that's undervalued you wait it out. Even Gardiner will get better. As will Schenn, Kadri, Colborne, Ashton, Percy, Biggs, Ross, etc.

Seems only the Leafs can draft guys in the top 10 and they are worthless. Kadri can play with men. They just need to leave him up and give him ice. He's already better than half the Leaf forwards and has done some nice things.

The patience the media exhibits is laughable. Only in Toronto is Schenn at 22 a bust. Kadri at 20 a bust.

Find a goalie for cheap --- like Vokoun if Luongo isn't available. Draft 5th and take BPA. Don't package an NHL player with the pick for a pick a few higher -- for a guy that has as many question marks. Trade the bums like Armstrong, etc. and let the kids play.
Vokoun is now a Penguin.

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06-20-2012, 01:16 PM
  #111
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But I thought PP and game winners were the only thing that mattered?
True.


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Mine is the Ibanez S570DXQM and my sons is a Kirk Hammett signature. It's just a cheapo that he started with. He's now playing a Les Paul Tribute Plus - Cherry Sunburst
Couldn't tell from the pic, I thought the one on the right was a Godin. I've got a Gibby Les Paul and a Fender Strat myself.

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06-20-2012, 01:18 PM
  #112
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The answer to all of your questions is yes.


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06-20-2012, 02:27 PM
  #113
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Burke said that Gardiner was not going to be traded for Rick Nash, so I can't see him getting traded for anything else.

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06-20-2012, 02:46 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
LA just won the cup. whatever happens from this point forward doesnt matter because no matter what you argue there response will be..."but we won the cup".

its like the same thing with the kaberle trade to boston. yes toronto got colborne, 1st, and a 2nd ....but boston won the cup so no one is crying about it.

imo there is a big difference between jj and gardiner. the first being jj is 25 , gardiner is 21. jj also makes $4.3 million x 7 years, gardiner makes $1 million and change. with jj howson knew exactly what he was getting, gardiner is still a prospect, its too soon to know if he is going to improve and become the next karlsson or regress like schenn a little bit?
yes but boston won the cup inspite of Kaberles terrible play

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06-20-2012, 02:51 PM
  #115
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Tough decision? I can't see why. I think it's a terribly easy decision.

NO!

They acquired this kid to do what he's doing. He's got the potential to become a top pairing guy someday. Why trade him and then start searching all over again?

Gardiner is going to be a Leaf for quite a while if he continues to progress.

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06-20-2012, 05:02 PM
  #116
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yes but boston won the cup inspite of Kaberles terrible play
Yes he was horrible as he lead the D man in points for Boston in the Playoffs with limited amount of ice time.

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06-20-2012, 05:08 PM
  #117
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Gardiner should not be untouchable.....no one should be. He should not be traded unless we are getting the 1st overall pick, or a top number 1 center in return.

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06-20-2012, 05:08 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
Tough decision? I can't see why. I think it's a terribly easy decision.

NO!

They acquired this kid to do what he's doing. He's got the potential to become a top pairing guy someday. Why trade him and then start searching all over again?

Gardiner is going to be a Leaf for quite a while if he continues to progress.
It might not be a tough decision for you, but it might be for Burke.

As I said before, I believe Burke is getting despirated, and that might lead to some really stupid moves.

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06-20-2012, 05:13 PM
  #119
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Someone help me out here. This is the depth chart of the Leafs' defense as it appears on THN (LINK):

Dion Phaneuf
Jake Gardiner
John-Michael Liles
Carl Gunnarsson
Mike Komisarek
Cody Franson
Luke Schenn
Korbinian Holzer*

Luke Schenn 7th? Is that possible?

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06-20-2012, 05:16 PM
  #120
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It seems like a lot of Leafs fans all live on paper anymore. Doesn't anyone actually watch games? The comment above about LA regretting the Carter trade is one of the dumbest I've read here in some time. LA took off the moment he joined the club and they were on fire right through the Cup final, one of the more dominant team performances in the playoffs in years.

Gardiner is good, but he's not untouchable by any means. This fetishizing every top Leaf pick as some kind of god has burned us over and over again in the past. Anyone remember how Steen was untouchable, even in the Pronger deal? Or how Schenn was untouchable and a future captain? Etc., etc.

The Leafs suck so much anymore that any small good development with a player automatically gets turned into a massive big deal future HOFer! It's desperate and it's pathetic. If Burke can turn Gardiner into something with the potential to really get the Leafs going -- yes, even Luongo, or a Jordan Staal, if it comes to that -- he needs to do it and not look back.

Burke committed to this rebuild now path, and he's too far down that road at this point to turn back. Well, without losing his job and resetting the clock so it's another 4-5 years before the Leafs even make the playoffs.

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06-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #121
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whats the tough decision? Since when do we want another winger in Nail? lol. Stay at 5, we'll get a stud anyways

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06-20-2012, 05:29 PM
  #122
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The Toronto media trying to get people interested. Burke will not trade Gardiner.

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06-20-2012, 05:43 PM
  #123
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As I said before, I believe Burke is getting despirated, and that might lead to some really stupid moves.


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06-20-2012, 05:45 PM
  #124
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A typo at the end of failed spelling attempt!

That's what happens when you grow up speaking and writting in two languages.... you suck at both!

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06-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #125
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A typo at the end of failed spelling attempt!

That's what happens when you grow up speaking and writting in two languages.... you suck at both!
I have always found it funny when people point out typos......the content is the issue not the spelling.

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