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Vanek to NYR

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:31 AM
  #26
GregSirico
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Originally Posted by hiddeninlight View Post
you know the price of nash? Vanek is worth close to that.
el oh el

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:39 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
el oh el
Look 3 posts up for justification.

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06-20-2012, 09:42 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
el oh el
Who's joking? Statistically Vanek is just as good as nash, putting up better even strength and 5 on 4 numbers in 2 of the last 3 seasons. Not to downplay nash but vanek is just as good with a shorter term on his contract....I fail to see anything funny about thinking that a player with similar/better production with a similar cap hit being worth close to the other. Not to mention they are close to the same age, and Vanek isn't demanding a trade like nash is.

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:43 AM
  #29
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I am kinda struggling to find a reason why Vanek wouldn't be worth more than Nash??

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06-20-2012, 09:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
No offense taken. Something to be considered, though, is Regier is trying to build the 20-22 year-old core of the Sabres. He wants to add to Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, McNabb, Foligno, Adam, and Pysyk, all of whom fall in that age group. That's why I think Kreider would be the guy he wanted. Erixon is an excellent prospect, as well, but I'm a tad alarmed by him coaxing his way to NYC last summer, and we're already pretty stocked with mobile defensemen.
I think most teams would want Kreider, so I can understand what you're saying. However, the combination of size, speed, and skill he brings is just too good to let go of. Yeah, guys like Nash and Vanek would most likely provide far more help in the short term, but if Kreider really does have 30-35 goal upside (which I feel he does) then the real value is waiting for him to mature.

The common misconception is that the Rangers are building for immediate success, and we have an abundance of d-men which makes the idea of us trading one this summer almost a certainty. Those notions are actually quite wrong. Tortorella is on record that he wants to add to the defensive depth, and to fold more young players into the lineup. He feels like we're not ready to win just yet. I have to agree with him.

I don't believe the Rangers will trade Erixon after the debacle he caused with Calgary. I think they view him as a long-term piece.

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Old
06-20-2012, 09:50 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
As I mentioned in that other thread yesterday, I think Darcy would require one of Kreider, Stepan, or Erixon--probably one of the forwards--to accompany Dubinsky+ to Buffalo. Something like:

Dubinsky
Stepan/Kreider
Solid prospect (Miller?)

That may be too rich for NY's blood, though. But Vanek could go a long way to helping a PP that's finished 18th and 23rd the last two seasons.
Issue with this, is that it doesn't help Buffalo win now. Vanek is one of their best offensive pieces. I don't see them moving Vanek under any circumstances unless you blow them away with something they can't turn down. So just as Rangers are saying they don't want to move Kreider, Buffalo can easily sit back and say if he's not included they have no real reason to move Vanek.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:02 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Issue with this, is that it doesn't help Buffalo win now. Vanek is one of their best offensive pieces. I don't see them moving Vanek under any circumstances unless you blow them away with something they can't turn down. So just as Rangers are saying they don't want to move Kreider, Buffalo can easily sit back and say if he's not included they have no real reason to move Vanek.
I think Buffalo would then set its sights on Ryan or Parise if they moved Vanek. That, of course, begs the question of why wouldn't NYR just focus on Ryan if he's available, but that's a different issue.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:02 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
el oh el
That's right, Nash is Canadian and Vanek is Austrian. How dare we leave out such a relevant fact. This is HFBoards, after all.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
That's right, Nash is Canadian and Vanek is Austrian. How dare we leave out such a relevant fact. This is HFBoards, after all.
Vanek is actual a Slovak (thought he was from Czech Rep but nope), he's just raised in Austria so... play the skilled Czechslovakian card .

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:15 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think Buffalo would then set its sights on Ryan or Parise if they moved Vanek. That, of course, begs the question of why wouldn't NYR just focus on Ryan if he's available, but that's a different issue.
Based on the talk around the board, the Rangers are focused on Ryan, which makes more sense. Rangers are dealing depth and prospects for an upgrade to the top lines. If Buffalo is looking to swap Vanek for an equal or better player, obviously the Rangers are not the ideal trade partner.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:19 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Vanek is actual a Slovak (thought he was from Czech Rep but nope), he's just raised in Austria so... play the skilled Czechslovakian card .
Father from Czech Rep, mother from Slovakia. Born and raised and learned to play hockey in Austria. He's as much an Austrian as Ibrahimović is a Swede.

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Old
06-20-2012, 10:40 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
No offense taken. Something to be considered, though, is Regier is trying to build the 20-22 year-old core of the Sabres. He wants to add to Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, McNabb, Foligno, Adam, and Pysyk, all of whom fall in that age group. That's why I think Kreider would be the guy he wanted. Erixon is an excellent prospect, as well, but I'm a tad alarmed by him coaxing his way to NYC last summer, and we're already pretty stocked with mobile defensemen.
Those are all fair points, and that's why I included Miller. He seems like the kind of prospect the Sabres would want. I just don't see Kreider being moved in any deal short of a package for Stamkos or Malkin, which are both not happening.

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06-20-2012, 10:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Those are all fair points, and that's why I included Miller. He seems like the kind of prospect the Sabres would want. I just don't see Kreider being moved in any deal short of a package for Stamkos or Malkin, which are both not happening.
Should be interesting to see if the comments of Elliotte Friedman yesterday on Calgary's Fan 960 are accurate then as he stated that the Rangers realized that they'd have to part with Kreider in order to get Nash given interest from Philly and San Jose.

Personally, I'd hold Kreider as he'll be out producing Nash in a season or two and target the PA Parenteau as a stop gap for a few season (if he hits the market).

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Old
06-20-2012, 11:04 AM
  #39
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I would be fine with trading Vanek, but i don't see anyone on the Rangers i would want in return, unless Tortorella is included.

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Old
06-20-2012, 11:13 AM
  #40
Riptide
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think Buffalo would then set its sights on Ryan or Parise if they moved Vanek. That, of course, begs the question of why wouldn't NYR just focus on Ryan if he's available, but that's a different issue.
Then they wait until after they sign/acquire one of them. You don't move your star forward with nothing set in stone to replace him.

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
some rangers fans are overrating kreider's value slightly. he looks the real deal, and such speed coupled with such size are rare things. looks to have a great shot too. however, he's still raw, his decision-making is sometimes questionable and i think its madness to say categorically that kreider goes nowhere apart from for top tier elite player. sather won't want to lose him for a nash or vanek-type player, but there are no guarantees that he'll ever reach that level, so i think he's a valid piece to ask for.

the other thing to note is that the rnagers have a looot of good young top 6 or potential top 6 forwards. there is only so much space in the team for them all. granted, kreider will be one of the last ones that they'd wnat to move, but some people will be moved purely because there isn't enough room for all of them at once, therefore some would stagnate in new york.
Respectfully no.
While there is no absolute guarantee he will reach that level, there is no guarantee that, barring injury, he won't. And the arrow points in the up direction, that he is more likely, not less likely to attain a superior level, if not elite level, of accomplishment. The only thing beyond superior and elite is uber-elite.

Rangers may have an open mind about any and all offers for any and all players, but moving Kreider until we get a glimpse of what his true ceiling is, that, my friend, is the madness.

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:22 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
I would be fine with trading Vanek, but i don't see anyone on the Rangers i would want in return, unless Tortorella is included.
Torts overrated.
Assuming they agree to go to Buf, Richards + X + Torts for Vanek + y.

Rangers get shooter w/enough sniper-esque ability to close the deal, improve cap, get out from under overrated coach replace w/John Davidson/Messier, maybe Sullivan.

Solve for x + y....

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:09 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by lundy View Post
I don't see how that wouldn't be enough. That's reasonably fair value. If the Sabres want to overprice Vanek like Columbus is overpricing Nash, then they'll be impossible to deal with.
I don't think it is necessarily a question of the total value being "enough", so much as none of those pieces being enough to be the centerpiece. Dubinsky and Anisimov are 2nd/3rd line players, Miller is a good, not great prospect and same with the #26 pick. To me, if you are going to trade a star, you want at least one piece back with top-line potential. I don't see that from anything on the Rangers side. Add in the fact that Dubinsky and Anisimov combined make close to Vanek, and there really isn't much incentive from Buffalo to move a player like Vanek.

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06-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #44
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Wow, my fellow Rangers fans really low-balling the Sabres here.

You think it's US that wouldn't pull the trigger on Dubinsky, Erixon, 1st for Vanek? I don't think Buffalo would even consider it.

Vanek is worth Dubinsky (mostly as a salary dump.. not saying he has no value; I actually don't want to see him traded, but we'd need to offload some salary and Dubinsky's value is at a low right now) + Stepan + Prospect/Pick... maybe both.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
el oh el
I don't know why this is a laughable assertion. Statistically, Vanek and Nash are pretty much on par.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Torts overrated.
Assuming they agree to go to Buf, Richards + X + Torts for Vanek + y.

Rangers get shooter w/enough sniper-esque ability to close the deal, improve cap, get out from under overrated coach replace w/John Davidson/Messier, maybe Sullivan.

Solve for x + y....
Trading coaches now, bern?

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MisterT View Post
Should be interesting to see if the comments of Elliotte Friedman yesterday on Calgary's Fan 960 are accurate then as he stated that the Rangers realized that they'd have to part with Kreider in order to get Nash given interest from Philly and San Jose.

Personally, I'd hold Kreider as he'll be out producing Nash in a season or two and target the PA Parenteau as a stop gap for a few season (if he hits the market).
I heard Philly was out.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:40 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CycleofViolence View Post
I don't know why this is a laughable assertion. Statistically, Vanek and Nash are pretty much on par.
Yeah I agree. 2 different types of players, but same value and production wise. I think Vanek is a slightly better playmaker.

Comes down to what you want. Vanek is one of the best finishers in the league in tight, while Nash scores prettier goals and has a better shot.

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Old
06-20-2012, 01:48 PM
  #49
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Trading coaches now, bern?
Sadly, that was the most realistic part of his proposal.

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06-20-2012, 01:51 PM
  #50
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Sadly, that was the most realistic part of his proposal.
Sadly his proposals never end.

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