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Edmonton interested in Cody Franson (Jeff Marek)

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Old
06-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #351
leaflover
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I don't see why the Leafs are so ready to give up on Schenn either. He's a talented young dman who could still turn into the cornerstone of the Leafs D. Maybe he'll end up being a 2nd pairing dman too but why not take the risk?
I posted earlier that it would be worthwhile to see what Franson would do under Carlyle rather than take a 2nd rounder. Schenn, given some time under Carlyles guidance and in his system is the guy i really expect to excel as its right up his alley.

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06-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by The Big Unit View Post
How did Franson perform under Randy Carlyle's system?
The defensive unit performed underwhelmingly as a whole all year, even after Carlyle's hiring. But I'm one to reserve my opinion of how players react to a defensive system in this case, since Carlyle and Wilson were almost complete opposites in their styles. It'll take an off season and some re-education to get the bad habits shaken off.

I personally see Franson as expendable. If he's not packaged in a deal and traded straight up, a 2nd would be somewhere between fair value and overpayment IMHO. In EDM's case, probably overpayment considering their draft position, unless the Leafs throw something else in like their 4th or something.

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06-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Oilmageddon View Post
I finished it with another quote I hit submit by mistake ,and I cant edit my posts.
Basically comes down to what teams are willing to pay to make a playoff push. You will notice teams that finish top 10 in the league come playoff time will make a trade for a player that can help them through a playoff push. I wonder if Franson could have helped the Rangers this spring? Fact is, quality d-men that can move a puck that are signed to a decent salary will get you a decent asset back. To trade Franson for a second is a waste of time. Tor doesn't need a second round pic, they need a goaltender and a top six forward. If Frason can be used in a package to get that than it is worthwhile. To eat Lombardi's salary for a second round pic is just a waste of time.

I don't care what Edm fans think. Trading away Franson for a second is a complete waste of time.

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06-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #354
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I would say he is worth a mid to late 2nd, not the 32nd over all pick though. EDM does need dmen but I would wait and see what happens with Schultz first then if EDM doesn't get him go after Franson.

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06-21-2012, 01:00 PM
  #355
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I would say he is worth a mid to late 2nd, not the 32nd over all pick though. EDM does need dmen but I would wait and see what happens with Schultz first then if EDM doesn't get him go after Franson.
I'd rather the Oilers went after a UFA like Wideman than go after Franson.

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06-21-2012, 01:03 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
I posted earlier that it would be worthwhile to see what Franson would do under Carlyle rather than take a 2nd rounder. Schenn, given some time under Carlyles guidance and in his system is the guy i really expect to excel as its right up his alley.
I agree on both counts. If they can get a high 2nd rounder for Franson it's worth considering anyway but if I were Burke I'd try to make the trade bigger and acquire a forward too.

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06-21-2012, 01:13 PM
  #357
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I agree on both counts. If they can get a high 2nd rounder for Franson it's worth considering anyway but if I were Burke I'd try to make the trade bigger and acquire a forward too.
A sound defensive forward with a reasonable contract would be a solid return for Franson. If that forward had other intangibles alongside strong defensive play then no problem adding to Franson or as you say make it a multiplayer from both teams. The thing is that a 2nd round pick isnt an over-the-top offer that would never materialize again should Franson no fare well under Carlyle. If by Christmas Franson isnt showing signs of adapting well throw him on the open market, Burke would still get a 2nd or even hold off until deadline day if need be.

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06-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
A sound defensive forward with a reasonable contract would be a solid return for Franson. If that forward had other intangibles alongside strong defensive play then no problem adding to Franson or as you say make it a multiplayer from both teams. The thing is that a 2nd round pick isnt an over-the-top offer that would never materialize again should Franson no fare well under Carlyle. If by Christmas Franson isnt showing signs of adapting well throw him on the open market, Burke would still get a 2nd or even hold off until deadline day if need be.
Yeah I agree. It's not a huge problem for the Leafs to see how Franson fares under Carlyle but the Leafs need to make some changes prior to opening night (whenever that will be). There's too many players that are "wait and see" right now on Toronto. IMO it's a better idea to get something done at the draft when teams are in the mood to trade rather than the offseason when teams begin to wonder what the new CBA landscape will look like.

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06-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Basically comes down to what teams are willing to pay to make a playoff push. You will notice teams that finish top 10 in the league come playoff time will make a trade for a player that can help them through a playoff push. I wonder if Franson could have helped the Rangers this spring? Fact is, quality d-men that can move a puck that are signed to a decent salary will get you a decent asset back. To trade Franson for a second is a waste of time. Tor doesn't need a second round pic, they need a goaltender and a top six forward. If Frason can be used in a package to get that than it is worthwhile. To eat Lombardi's salary for a second round pic is just a waste of time.

I don't care what Edm fans think. Trading away Franson for a second is a complete waste of time.
I have to agree, because they'll never get one.

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06-21-2012, 01:32 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
I would say he is worth a mid to late 2nd, not the 32nd over all pick though. EDM does need dmen but I would wait and see what happens with Schultz first then if EDM doesn't get him go after Franson.
2nd seems bit high. We are talking about Cody "Pressbox" Franson here. 3rd rounder seems reasonable, because there's still a chance he develops into a bottom-pairing d-man with a shot. After all, you can find guys that aren't good enough to play regularly for free come July 1st.

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06-21-2012, 02:15 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Franson is a good player that got caught behind some bad signings in Tor, namely Mike Komisarek. He was also playing under Ron Wilson who was horrible at his defensive strategy and leaving d-men out on an island. He is a good player and one with upside. Just because a team did not make it into the playoffs does not mean they should trade everything for spare parts just because Edm fans say so. Burke had to eat Lombardi's salary to bring him in here. Maybe he will be in a fight for ice time because of depth they have but nonetheless he is a good piece. Big body defenceman who can skate wonderfully and has a really nice shot. There will be teams that will covet him come this summer or at trade deadline. If i were to simply look at stats I can pull apart just about any player in the league, including many of your players on your team but I also realize there is more to the game that numbers and how players are used. Franson for a second is useless to Tor. Franson as part of a package that brings us a number one goaler or part of a package that can bring in a good forward, anything else is a waste of assets.

This is not an issue of Leaf fans over valuing a player. This board is absurd at times when guys start making ridiculous proposals.
#7 DMen on terrible defensive teams don't have a ton of value. The fact that they were a #6 on a better team the year before doesn't raise their value that much. Yes you are over-valuing him. Teams aren't trading a #1 Goalie or "good forward" for a package where a significant piece back is a bottom-pairing Defenseman.

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06-21-2012, 02:18 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Basically comes down to what teams are willing to pay to make a playoff push. You will notice teams that finish top 10 in the league come playoff time will make a trade for a player that can help them through a playoff push. I wonder if Franson could have helped the Rangers this spring? Fact is, quality d-men that can move a puck that are signed to a decent salary will get you a decent asset back. To trade Franson for a second is a waste of time. Tor doesn't need a second round pic, they need a goaltender and a top six forward. If Frason can be used in a package to get that than it is worthwhile. To eat Lombardi's salary for a second round pic is just a waste of time.

I don't care what Edm fans think. Trading away Franson for a second is a complete waste of time.
Adding crappy free agents because you have ways to spend money and the best free agents won't touch your team is a bigger waste of time imo than re-building properly. The perpetual chase for 8th has been both a failure and brought the Leafs no closer to winning a Cup in the next decade.

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06-21-2012, 03:32 PM
  #363
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hopefully Edmonton can acquire another pick before Stevie Y to select Morgan Rielly, we'd be set boys!

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06-21-2012, 03:44 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Adding crappy free agents because you have ways to spend money and the best free agents won't touch your team is a bigger waste of time imo than re-building properly. The perpetual chase for 8th has been both a failure and brought the Leafs no closer to winning a Cup in the next decade.
And how has that rebuilding been going for you guys? Sure you have some nice pieces but nothing yet. No d-men to speak of, no better off in goal then we are. Hall hasn't played a complete year yet and if he doesn't keep his head up he won't have to worry about that. Lots of nice pieces on your team but still a ways to go. All kinds of ways to win a cup. LA, Bos, Chi, Det all did it differently.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Edm because I enjoy watching any Cdn team be successful, I just love watching good hockey. People saying Franson for a second is a good deal. Well, see what d-man you will get for a second round pic. Better yet, draft one, develop him and get him ready. That should take a few good years before he will even sniff the ice then tell me how good is that second pic to the leafs.

Franson is still a good player, regardless if he is stuck behind some garbage contracts in front of him.

And you're right, signing garbage free agents is futile. I couldn't agree more but I never signed the player and I never hired that coach. I remember some Kings fan ripping Doughty for some poor play and my comment was nobody knows what is being asked of him by the coaching staff ( Murray ), it will all work out. Change of coach and the guy flourishes but he was always great.

I can see and so can so many other hockey people can see or you guys wouldn't be sniffing up Franson's tree. The guy can play and a second round pic won't get it done. We are better off to keep him and develop him.

A year ago Gagner was a bum, now? Funny how a little time puts everything in perspective.

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06-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
And how has that rebuilding been going for you guys? Sure you have some nice pieces but nothing yet. No d-men to speak of, no better off in goal then we are. Hall hasn't played a complete year yet and if he doesn't keep his head up he won't have to worry about that. Lots of nice pieces on your team but still a ways to go. All kinds of ways to win a cup. LA, Bos, Chi, Det all did it differently.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Edm because I enjoy watching any Cdn team be successful, I just love watching good hockey. People saying Franson for a second is a good deal. Well, see what d-man you will get for a second round pic. Better yet, draft one, develop him and get him ready. That should take a few good years before he will even sniff the ice then tell me how good is that second pic to the leafs.

Franson is still a good player, regardless if he is stuck behind some garbage contracts in front of him.

And you're right, signing garbage free agents is futile. I couldn't agree more but I never signed the player and I never hired that coach. I remember some Kings fan ripping Doughty for some poor play and my comment was nobody knows what is being asked of him by the coaching staff ( Murray ), it will all work out. Change of coach and the guy flourishes but he was always great.

I can see and so can so many other hockey people can see or you guys wouldn't be sniffing up Franson's tree. The guy can play and a second round pic won't get it done. We are better off to keep him and develop him.

A year ago Gagner was a bum, now? Funny how a little time puts everything in perspective.
The person you're replying to isn't even an Oilers fan but okay...

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06-21-2012, 03:59 PM
  #366
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And how has that rebuilding been going for you guys? Sure you have some nice pieces but nothing yet. No d-men to speak of, no better off in goal then we are. Hall hasn't played a complete year yet and if he doesn't keep his head up he won't have to worry about that. Lots of nice pieces on your team but still a ways to go. All kinds of ways to win a cup. LA, Bos, Chi, Det all did it differently.
Outside of Detroit the Oilers are following the model of all those teams, get your cornerstone pieces through the draft with high picks and build from there through trades and free agency. The Hall injury thing is just over blown by some people.


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06-21-2012, 04:04 PM
  #367
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It's ridiculous that he's not getting playing time in Toronto - just ridiculous. Everytime they decide to not scratch him, he looks good and generates offense yet somehow we manage to always keep him scratched no matter how poorly our defenseman play.

We're gonna trade Franson and it's going to be the biggest mistake of the off-season, this kid's ceiling and potential is very high. If anything, we should be trading other defenseman to make room for Franson.
TY F@#K.... ill lose it if we trade this kid

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06-21-2012, 04:52 PM
  #368
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I'd say he's worth a 3rd (62nd overall) and a low-level prospect.

Or MPS and Toronto adds something the Oilers like.

He's a 7th Dman on a bad defensive team, and was a 6th Dman before that. He was traded for Brett Lebda.. his value isn't very high.

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06-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
And how has that rebuilding been going for you guys? Sure you have some nice pieces but nothing yet. No d-men to speak of, no better off in goal then we are. Hall hasn't played a complete year yet and if he doesn't keep his head up he won't have to worry about that. Lots of nice pieces on your team but still a ways to go. All kinds of ways to win a cup. LA, Bos, Chi, Det all did it differently.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Edm because I enjoy watching any Cdn team be successful, I just love watching good hockey. People saying Franson for a second is a good deal. Well, see what d-man you will get for a second round pic. Better yet, draft one, develop him and get him ready. That should take a few good years before he will even sniff the ice then tell me how good is that second pic to the leafs.

Franson is still a good player, regardless if he is stuck behind some garbage contracts in front of him.

And you're right, signing garbage free agents is futile. I couldn't agree more but I never signed the player and I never hired that coach. I remember some Kings fan ripping Doughty for some poor play and my comment was nobody knows what is being asked of him by the coaching staff ( Murray ), it will all work out. Change of coach and the guy flourishes but he was always great.

I can see and so can so many other hockey people can see or you guys wouldn't be sniffing up Franson's tree. The guy can play and a second round pic won't get it done. We are better off to keep him and develop him.

A year ago Gagner was a bum, now? Funny how a little time puts everything in perspective.
I dont think a leaf fan should talk about any other teams success (or lack of it) with rebuilding. When was the last time leafs won the cup? Exactly.

It looks brighter for the leafs now that the teachers are gone, now you just need to get a good GM and get rid of some ridiculously bad contracts to do a proper rebuild.

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06-21-2012, 04:58 PM
  #370
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I dont think a leaf fan should talk about any other teams success (or lack of it) with rebuilding. When was the last time leafs won the cup? Exactly.

It looks brighter for the leafs now that the teachers are gone, now you just need to get a good GM and get rid of some ridiculously bad contracts to do a proper rebuild.
We're happy with our GM. We're in about the same place LA was three years after they brought in Lombardi.

EDIT: In 08-09 (three full season of Lombardi), Justin Williams was the third highest paid member of the team ($3,500,000), was signed for another two seasons, and had 4 goals, 10 assists for the season. Talk about a bad contract at the time.

Also, Dustin Brown was -15 for the season, with Kopitar and Doughty both -17.

Moral of the story: Leaf fans have no patience, and it's way too early to judge Burke and our current players/prospects, so lets not assume he's a colossal failure just yet.


Last edited by Badger Mayhew: 06-21-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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