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Some Big names maybe on the move? Should the Jets have interest?

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:30 PM
  #1
WWoJeff
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Some Big names maybe on the move? Should the Jets have interest?

As always lots of talk heading into the draft about some possible player movement. Last year we saw Richards and Carter moved out of Philly in trades that direcetly influenced the Kings ability to win the Cup this year.

Clearly Rick Nash is the most obvious name on the block with a recent rumour coming out of Ottawa that the Sens would offer Mika Zibanejad, Nik Foligino and Ben Bishop. A package like that would in most peoples opinion be too much for the Jets to try and even think of matching and as good as Pasquale played he's not ready to contend for a number one job in the NHL like Bishop is.

Talks of Jordan Staal's time in Pittsburgh have been happening with the contract talks for Sydney Crosby, and now Bobby Ryan may be back on the block again.

So my question is should the Jets make a play for any of these players and what do you think the realistic price would be to pay for one of them?

*I do realize likely none will end up in Winnipeg but it's fun to ponder*

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06-20-2012, 12:43 PM
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The problem with any proposal with the Jets going after a big name like a Nash or a Staal, is that unlike the Sens, we don't have the prospects, and necessary high quality secondary pieces to acquire that big name player without sending our own big name roster player back.

The Sens can make a deal like that and ADD Nash to their roster. For the Jets we would need to send someone FROM our roster to make it happen and at that point you have to question if it's even worth it.

If the Jets are involved in any trades on draft day I would think we would be either:

A) trading one of our picks for a young player that can help us now
b) trading a vet or non key player for additional picks.

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06-20-2012, 12:54 PM
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Every team would love to have Staal or Nash. Nash's asking price is way too high for just about everyone in the league. It wouldn't be surprising if Columbus also wanted Ottawa's 1st round pick in that proposed deal. Although the thought of Nash and Wheeler on the same line makes me drool, it will never happen.

Staal might be a little bit more realistic. I wouldn't mind trading our 1st pick for him. Other than that, we don't really have anyone on our roster we could offer outside of Bogo, Buff, or Wheeler which I do not want to lose.

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06-20-2012, 01:00 PM
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I think Enstrom may very well be used as bait for a player or prospect due to expring contract and depth at defense. Still not enough for any of those players but in a package may at least get teams to answer the phone call.

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06-20-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inflict View Post
Every team would love to have Staal or Nash. Nash's asking price is way too high for just about everyone in the league. It wouldn't be surprising if Columbus also wanted Ottawa's 1st round pick in that proposed deal. Although the thought of Nash and Wheeler on the same line makes me drool, it will never happen.

Staal might be a little bit more realistic. I wouldn't mind trading our 1st pick for him. Other than that, we don't really have anyone on our roster we could offer outside of Bogo, Buff, or Wheeler which I do not want to lose.
Staal's value is diminished because he's an UFA next summer. I would not give up a first round pick for him right now unless I was sure he'd re-sign.

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06-20-2012, 01:03 PM
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Despite doing relatively well last year, I still consider us a rebuilding team. We're not a Nash or Staal away from winning the Cup. Plus we have some of the worst prospect depth in the NHL, so we probably wouldn't even have the assets to acquire them if we wanted to.

IMO, the guys I would try and target are young players who might in need of a change of scenery:

-Brandon Dubinsky
-Chris Stewart
-Luke Schenn
-Guillaume Latendresse
-Michael Grabner
-van Riemsdyk

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06-20-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inflict View Post
Every team would love to have Staal or Nash. Nash's asking price is way too high for just about everyone in the league. It wouldn't be surprising if Columbus also wanted Ottawa's 1st round pick in that proposed deal. Although the thought of Nash and Wheeler on the same line makes me drool, it will never happen.

Staal might be a little bit more realistic. I wouldn't mind trading our 1st pick for him. Other than that, we don't really have anyone on our roster we could offer outside of Bogo, Buff, or Wheeler which I do not want to lose.
Jordan Staal would be a great choice for Winnipeg. I'd give a 1st pick for him totally.

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06-20-2012, 01:42 PM
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Jordan Staal would be a great choice for Winnipeg. I'd give a 1st pick for him totally.
Only if he'll sign a 4-5 year contract extension. Otherwise we'd have him for part of one season and then he'd be gone.

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06-20-2012, 01:51 PM
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I would give up a lot to get Ryan here.......

To Winnipeg:

Ryan
DSP

To Anaheim:

Kane
Burmi


We rid ourselves of two "potential" problem guys character wise and bring in a consistent 30 goal guy who hasn't peaked and a guy to add some grit to our vacant 3rd line. Don't give me the "Kane is better than Ryan" line because he isn't.

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06-20-2012, 02:02 PM
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This team needs a big number one centre and Staal would fit the bill.

I'm sure if Cheveldayoff gets the right deal, True North will step up with the dollars.

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06-20-2012, 02:03 PM
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I say we make a play for Pavelic and Kane

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06-20-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by km204 View Post
I would give up a lot to get Ryan here.......

To Winnipeg:

Ryan
DSP

To Anaheim:

Kane
Burmi


We rid ourselves of two "potential" problem guys character wise and bring in a consistent 30 goal guy who hasn't peaked and a guy to add some grit to our vacant 3rd line. Don't give me the "Kane is better than Ryan" line because he isn't.

There are no problems character wise, Kane and Burmi still have a lot of growing up to do. And it was a big change for these young players(all the crap they had to go through in Atlanta and the move to winnipeg). We had the team for just 1 year, this is not the time to be making franchise changing decisions.

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06-20-2012, 02:27 PM
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There are no problems character wise, Kane and Burmi still have a lot of growing up to do. And it was a big change for these young players(all the crap they had to go through in Atlanta and the move to winnipeg). We had the team for just 1 year, this is not the time to be making franchise changing decisions.
Because if you are following Nashville's strategy, you be patient and let your picks pan out

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06-20-2012, 02:39 PM
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Would think the Jets would have to be interested in Staal if he were actually available, but based on Shero's comments in the last few days, that seems extremely unlikely.

As far as trading the #9 overall pick for Staal goes, I think they Jets would do it in a heart beat, regardless of Staal's contract situation. But the reality is, Staal would cost us a fair bit more than just the #9 and when you start adding you need some assurances regarding how long he'll be with the club.

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06-20-2012, 02:52 PM
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Staal's value is diminished because he's an UFA next summer. I would not give up a first round pick for him right now unless I was sure he'd re-sign.
good point, but I think I would still trade the 1st round pick as Staal is the type of center the Jets need. We could always trade him at the deadline if we could not sign him by then.

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06-20-2012, 02:56 PM
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good point, but I think I would still trade the 1st round pick as Staal is the type of center the Jets need. We could always trade him at the deadline if we could not sign him by then.
And get a return less than the 9th.

In that case you are doing the opposite of the guy who takes a paperclip and trades it into a house.

You're taking a good asset (the 9th), making 2 trades in the course of 7 months and turning it into less.

There is no way TNSE trades a high draft pick on a team starved for top end talent for a potential UFA.

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06-20-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by km204 View Post
I would give up a lot to get Ryan here.......

To Winnipeg:

Ryan
DSP

To Anaheim:

Kane
Burmi


We rid ourselves of two "potential" problem guys character wise and bring in a consistent 30 goal guy who hasn't peaked and a guy to add some grit to our vacant 3rd line. Don't give me the "Kane is better than Ryan" line because he isn't.
Pretty even trade from both sides, but I don't think the ducks are willing to parth with smith-pelly; nor are we willing to parth with burmi.

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06-20-2012, 03:11 PM
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And get a return less than the 9th.

In that case you are doing the opposite of the guy who takes a paperclip and trades it into a house.

You're taking a good asset (the 9th), making 2 trades in the course of 7 months and turning it into less.

There is no way TNSE trades a high draft pick on a team starved for top end talent for a potential UFA.
Don't forget that this is the worst case scenario in which we cannot resign Stall. And don't immediately assume that we can only get a lesser return in a second trade. The Jets would have established the market value of Stall and could easily get a similar return due to the increased demand at the trade deadline. That is not even including a scenario where we trade Staal for a prospect or pick who turns out to be better than him (which conversely, we could also be doing if we traded our 9th pick).

Being a GM is a risk/reward business, and I personally think that this would be a great move if it could happen.

Edit: If there is anything to takeaway from this very hypothetical discussion, its that trading our 1st round pick for Stall isn't a huge overpayment. This trade is to address a need with a potential franchise centreman and we could still get a good return if things do not work out as planned. Well worth the risk in my opinion, especially if he signs and even if he does not.


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06-20-2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Inflict View Post
Don't forget that this is the worst case scenario in which we cannot resign Stall. And don't assume that we can only get a lesser return in a second trade. The Jets would have established the market value of Stall and could easily get a similar return due to the increased demand at the trade deadline. That is not even including a scenario where we trade Staal for a prospect or pick who turns out to be better than him (which conversely, we could also be doing if we traded our 9th pick).

Being a GM is a risk/reward business, and I personally think that this would be a great move if it could happen.
Are you saying that we could somehow get Staal for the 9th and then deal him at the deadline for a better return? I guess anything is possible, although I really doubt it. I also don;t see Staal getting moved for a pick, someone like Kane would most likely have to go the other way, but that is likely moot for this conversation anyway.

As for risk / reward, not all risks are created equal. And IMO, it makes no sense to take a risk when you don't have to. If the Jets and Pens had a deal in principle that both sides were ok with, getting Staal's extension as conditional to the deal going through seems like common sense to me. Or at least a massive conditional attached to it in the form of Pittsburgh's 1st and someone like Morrow if Staal walks. That way you deal Staal at the deadline and have that return, plus the 1st and Morrow. Pittsburgh probably won't do it, but I don't see why the Jets all of a sudden decide to be major risk takers in a situation that they don't have to.

Using top 10 draft picks as disposable currency when your team needs to build through the draft and you have next to no good prospects in the system seems like very questionable strategy to me.

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06-20-2012, 03:47 PM
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Guys, I've a confession to make, I'd love to see Jordan Staal in a Jets uni. He represents exactly what this team desperately requires, responsible size down the middle. Further, I think Winnipeg could offer Staal an opportunity that few other teams can, and that would be the chance to take the #1 spot right off the hop.

Seriously. Watch this kid play and he consistently back checks like no other. It never ceases to astound me how he is near always the first forward back into his end, even if he is the guy that was forechecking down low immediately prior. I bet he was a fan of Ron Francis when he was growing up, because that is who he resembles in a way, IMO anyway.

If I'm GM Cheveldayoff, I'm pretty much willing to do everything within reason to acquire a Jordan Staal, if he ever became available with an option to negotiate an extension prior to any trade.

I'm giving up our 9th overall, Enstrom, whatever. I know it won't happen, but geez, talk about an ideal fit.

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06-20-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Guys, I've a confession to make, I'd love to see Jordan Staal in a Jets uni. He represents exactly what this team desperately requires, responsible size down the middle. Further, I think Winnipeg could offer Staal an opportunity that few other teams can, and that would be the chance to take the #1 spot right off the hop.

Seriously. Watch this kid play and he consistently back checks like no other. It never ceases to astound me how he is near always the first forward back into his end, even if he is the guy that was forechecking down low immediately prior. I bet he was a fan of Ron Francis when he was growing up, because that is who he resembles in a way, IMO anyway.

If I'm GM Cheveldayoff, I'm pretty much willing to do everything within reason to acquire a Jordan Staal, if he ever became available with an option to negotiate an extension prior to any trade.

I'm giving up our 9th overall, Enstrom, whatever. I know it won't happen, but geez, talk about an ideal fit.
I agree with you Gump. I don't think we would need to add the 9th on to a signed Enstrom, but if Enstrom was unsigned I would do the 9th plus him.

But that is under the assumption like you mention about having an extension for Staal in place.

But yeah, how many other teams in the league would Staal be their #1C in October?

Buffalo (over Roy)
Calgary (over Jokinen)
Columbus (over Brassard)
Dallas (over Riberio) - Maybe
Florida (over Weiss)
Montreal (over Desharnais / Plekanec)
Nashville (over Legwand)
Phoenix (over everyone)
Toronto (over Grabovski)
Winnipeg (over Little)

So give or take we would be 1 of 10 teams where he could probably be the #1C. I wouldn't have a problem giving him a long term deal either for all the reasons you mentioned.

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06-20-2012, 04:07 PM
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Inflict
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As for risk / reward, not all risks are created equal. And IMO, it makes no sense to take a risk when you don't have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Using top 10 draft picks as disposable currency when your team needs to build through the draft and you have next to no good prospects in the system seems like very questionable strategy to me.
Isn't the entire draft a risk as well? I think we have a better chance at signing Stall to an extension than drafting an NHL player as good as him.

I'm curious to know, what would you trade Stall for if not for a 1st round pick? Nothing else seems to make sense for both teams. In my opinion, he is better than a 9th overall pick maybe even worth a 2nd overall pick in this years draft. When you do include the risk factor of not signing him to an extension, a 9th overall pick doesn't sound so terrible. It would sound terrible if he did agree to an extension though and if I were Pittsburgh I would ask for more .

Edit: Just saw Huffer's reply to Gump after I posted my own reply. In regards to trading Stall for Enstrom. Someone from the Penguin's board made a good point on how they don't need another small skilled defenceman. They already have Kris Letang, so I do not think Enstrom would be a good fit for them.

I am all for keeping the pick as well, but Staal is just too good to pass up and could be a player for the now and the future (to quote Chevy on his trading philosophy).


Last edited by Inflict: 06-20-2012 at 04:18 PM.
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06-20-2012, 04:37 PM
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I'd like to see the Jets pick up a more first round picks tbh. The cupboard Is pretty bare.

Staal would be nice, but let's worry about that when we start making the playoffs and stuff.

Like I said, I'd like to see the Jets get an extra first rounder or so.

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06-20-2012, 04:41 PM
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Isn't the entire draft a risk as well? I think we have a better chance at signing Stall to an extension than drafting an NHL player as good as him.

I'm curious to know, what would you trade Stall for if not for a 1st round pick? Nothing else seems to make sense for both teams. In my opinion, he is better than a 9th overall pick maybe even worth a 2nd overall pick in this years draft. When you do include the risk factor of not signing him to an extension, a 9th overall pick doesn't sound so terrible. It would sound terrible if he did agree to an extension though and if I were Pittsburgh I would ask for more .

Edit: Just saw Huffer's reply to Gump after I posted my own reply. In regards to trading Stall for Enstrom. Someone from the Penguin's board made a good point on how they don't need another small skilled defenceman. They already have Kris Letang, so I do not think Enstrom would be a good fit for them.

I am all for keeping the pick as well, but Staal is just too good to pass up and could be a player for the now and the future (to quote Chevy on his trading philosophy).
The thing is though, why make a risky trade with high quality assets when you don't have to?

Just because we think Staal might sign here, and that we could have the space (money and #1C wise) doesn't mean that he will. We could offer him the maximum contract and he could easily decide to go somewhere else. What makes you think we have a chance to extend him?

I would trade the 1st for Staal if he had an extension. I would trade more than the 1st for a signed Staal. But dealing away the 9th pick on a hope is not a very sound business strategy to me. Especially when there are ways (getting an extension conditional to the trade, speaking before the trade, etc) that can mitigate the risk.

After reading much more than I would like to from Penguins fans, they are not interested in picks. I have seen their displeasure with Enstrom as well like you said. They want to win now and want a guy like Kane or Bobby Ryan to play with Crosby or Malkin. It makes no sense to trade away either of those guys with the "hope" that you can sign Staal.

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06-20-2012, 04:48 PM
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Guys, I've a confession to make, I'd love to see Jordan Staal in a Jets uni. He represents exactly what this team desperately requires, responsible size down the middle. Further, I think Winnipeg could offer Staal an opportunity that few other teams can, and that would be the chance to take the #1 spot right off the hop.

Seriously. Watch this kid play and he consistently back checks like no other. It never ceases to astound me how he is near always the first forward back into his end, even if he is the guy that was forechecking down low immediately prior. I bet he was a fan of Ron Francis when he was growing up, because that is who he resembles in a way, IMO anyway.

If I'm GM Cheveldayoff, I'm pretty much willing to do everything within reason to acquire a Jordan Staal, if he ever became available with an option to negotiate an extension prior to any trade.

I'm giving up our 9th overall, Enstrom, whatever. I know it won't happen, but geez, talk about an ideal fit.

I am a big Staal fan (Eric and Jordan) and Gump, I honestly agree with you.

I believe the Pens want a winger, so, my perfect deal would be this,

To Winnipeg: Jordan Staal

To Pittsburgh: Evander Kane


ONLY if we can have Jordan locked up to a long-term deal (7-8 years). It makes 100% sense to me based on today and the future. Yes, we would lose Kane's offensive goalscoring abilities from the wing, but in my opinion great teams are built down the middle. Jordan in my opinion will be a 30 goal center when he gets that opportunity. He may not be your elite center, 70-80-90+ points, BUT, you can win with great depth down the middle - Boston, 2011: Bergeron, Krejci, etc.

Jordan Staal will be 24 years old this September. Evander Kane will be 21 years old this August. The age gap is very minimal.

I think Evander Kane will top out as a 35-40 goal LW on average.

I think Jordan Staal will top out as a 25-30 goal center on average. We all know he is Selke caliber in terms of defensive play. He's also a whopping 6'4 220.


This, in my opinion, is a deal that works for BOTH teams, to a tee. IF we could lock Jordan Staal up to a long-term, 7-8 year contract, I would do this deal straight up in a heartbeat.

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