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Bobby Ryan is "available" Part II

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Old
06-23-2012, 06:41 PM
  #951
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
True, but to get a player like Ryan you will have to give up someone you don't want to give up. You don't get Ryan-calibre players for cap dumps and players you are annoyed with.
Of Anisimov, Hagelin, DZ, who is the cap dump and who is the player we are annoyed with?
Or do you need to check your post again?

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06-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #952
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Perry is a winner. He wants to win. Watch for him to walk next summer. Getzlaf stays. For many reasons: mainly because he is so lazy on the ice, he'll be too lazy to move.


"You're saying I have to get up and move my feet to go and sign the contract? WTF is this ****?"

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06-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Of Anisimov, Hagelin, DZ, who is the cap dump and who is the player we are annoyed with?
Or do you need to check your post again?
I was talking about Dubinsky. But why we would want Anisimov is beyond me. Ducks generally stay away from Russians and his stats are not gonna tempt the Ducks to change their attitude here.

A deal for Ryan will need to include a guy like Stepan. If he is a non-starter for you - fine. Good luck with Columbus.

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06-23-2012, 06:47 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
I was talking about Dubinsky. But why we would want Anisimov is beyond me. Ducks generally stay away from Russians and his stats are not gonna tempt the Ducks to change their attitude here.

A deal for Ryan will need to include a guy like Stepan. If he is a non-starter for you - fine. Good luck with Columbus.
And good luck with "clearing the air" with Ryan.

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06-23-2012, 06:48 PM
  #955
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And good luck with "clearing the air" with Ryan.
thxbro

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06-23-2012, 06:49 PM
  #956
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And good luck with "clearing the air" with Ryan.
I'll take our chances with that.

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06-23-2012, 06:49 PM
  #957
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Music to my ears.



Then why trade him? They are under no pressure to do so, even with his comments yesterday.
If he is as unhappy as he sounds about the whole situation you have to strongly consider it. Murray basically told him during the exit meetings he's safe and now all of a sudden here his name pops up again. I don't see him taking the Nash root and demanding a trade but if he's unhappy and has that "I don't care" attitude that he had in his quote you may have to move him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
True, but to get a player like Ryan you will have to give up someone you don't want to give up. You don't get Ryan-calibre players for cap dumps and players you are annoyed with.
MDZ is a big time piece. He's a future 60 point two-way defenseman. He drastically improved his defense this year and always has the offense. He's better than Cam Fowler. Bobby Ryan is an incredible player but I don't know if a deal for him has to hurt to the point where we deal a franchise defenseman or a future 1-2 center. We are giving up 3 very integral parts of our team and a 1st round pick. As I mentioned MDZ is a future 60 point 2-way d-man, Anisimov is a future 40-50 point 2 way forward, and Hagelin is a a speedster that can pot 40ish points. That's a pretty hefty price to pay and it does hurt.

I just think that it all deals with which side of the fence you're on. From ANA's POV of course all the offers you get back are going to feel subpar because you're dealing a great player and the return will never feel up to snuff. From the other team's POV you're giving up 3 core pieces of your team and some may feel you're breaking the bank.

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06-23-2012, 06:51 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
MDZ is a big time piece. He's a future 60 point two-way defenseman. He drastically improved his defense this year and always has the offense. He's better than Cam Fowler. Bobby Ryan is an incredible player but I don't know if a deal for him has to hurt to the point where we deal a franchise defenseman or a future 1-2 center. We are giving up 3 very integral parts of our team and a 1st round pick. As I mentioned MDZ is a future 60 point 2-way d-man, Anisimov is a future 40-50 point 2 way forward, and Hagelin is a a speedster that can pot 40ish points. That's a pretty hefty price to pay and it does hurt.
Whoa there

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06-23-2012, 06:55 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
I'll take our chances with that.
Definitely. I doubt Murray makes a deal that doesn't include Stepan. He's out for a 2nd line centre, and clearly that's why a deal never happened with Philly.

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06-23-2012, 06:55 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Whoa there
He put up 41 as a 21 year old. I thought he had more points than 41 this year but 60 is still possible. So he's going to be a 50 point two way defenseman.

I don't know if Fowler will ever bee good enough of a defenseman until he proves it, MDZ has shown marked improvement already leading me to believe he can progress to a very good defenseman.

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06-23-2012, 06:55 PM
  #961
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Like I said, MDZ won't be the center piece in a deal for Ryan. It would be a defensive defenseman or a legit second line center.

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06-23-2012, 06:58 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
MDZ is a big time piece. He's a future 60 point two-way defenseman. He drastically improved his defense this year and always has the offense. He's better than Cam Fowler. Bobby Ryan is an incredible player but I don't know if a deal for him has to hurt to the point where we deal a franchise defenseman or a future 1-2 center. We are giving up 3 very integral parts of our team and a 1st round pick. As I mentioned MDZ is a future 60 point 2-way d-man, Anisimov is a future 40-50 point 2 way forward, and Hagelin is a a speedster that can pot 40ish points. That's a pretty hefty price to pay and it does hurt.

I just think that it all deals with which side of the fence you're on. From ANA's POV of course all the offers you get back are going to feel subpar because you're dealing a great player and the return will never feel up to snuff. From the other team's POV you're giving up 3 core pieces of your team and some may feel you're breaking the bank.

I am very aware of the fact that you would rip out some great pieces to get an elite player. But elite players demand that price. Nobody is forcing the Rangers to do that trade. If you don't like the pricetag, don't make the trade. Very simple. If you feel you have enough firepower up front, don't try to trade for Ryan. Or Nash for that matter.

And again projections are what they are: projections. Who knows if AA will ever put up 50 points. Also, MDZ is older than Fowler, so who knows how good Fowler will be 2 years from now.

But for now, I doubt the Ducks would be satisfied with a deal that would only include pieces the Rangers view as expendable. For a Ryan calibre player, we want a return that would make it worthwhile.

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06-23-2012, 07:40 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
Like I said, MDZ won't be the center piece in a deal for Ryan. It would be a defensive defenseman or a legit second line center.
I've been trying to explain this on the Rangers board for quite some time, but some of them refuse to face facts.

The Rangers simply cannot trade Stepan, they don't have another 2nd line center. Thus, our only chance of getting Ryan is by dealing Staal or Girardi. It's a steep price, but that's what happens when a franchise is incapable of drafting or developing legitimate first line forwards.

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06-23-2012, 07:52 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I've been trying to explain this on the Rangers board for quite some time, but some of them refuse to face facts.

The Rangers simply cannot trade Stepan, they don't have another 2nd line center. Thus, our only chance of getting Ryan is by dealing Staal or Girardi. It's a steep price, but that's what happens when a franchise is incapable of drafting or developing legitimate first line forwards.
I was originally saying Staal as well, however I thought that they'd be more interested in MDZ now that they shipped out Lubo.

My original offer for Bobby Ryan was Staal, Anisimov, and a 1st and they we're ok with it but not thrilled.

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06-23-2012, 07:55 PM
  #965
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On a sidenote: I think Marc Staal's value might decrease if GMs get the idea he will ask for a trade to CAR sooner or later.

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06-23-2012, 07:56 PM
  #966
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so much anger in here

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06-23-2012, 07:57 PM
  #967
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Staal or Girardi is the only way it is happening.

They don't need MDZ, and it doesn't matter how much Vitto79 tries to convince himself, but Anisimov is a third line center, not a second line center.

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06-23-2012, 08:00 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Staal or Girardi is the only way it is happening.

They don't need MDZ, and it doesn't matter how much Vitto79 tries to convince himself, but Anisimov is a third line center, not a second line center.
Who?

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06-23-2012, 08:11 PM
  #969
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Voracek
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1st 2013
2nd 2013
5th 2013
Nick Cousins

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06-23-2012, 08:34 PM
  #970
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Voracek
Mezsaros
1st 2013
2nd 2013
5th 2013
Nick Cousins
Ducks say no. I think it's safe to say there won't be a trade between the two teams. Both front offices seem far apart.

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06-23-2012, 08:45 PM
  #971
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Are you going to buy the Avs dinner before you **** them?


It's for Ryan....

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06-23-2012, 08:46 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
If he is as unhappy as he sounds about the whole situation you have to strongly consider it. Murray basically told him during the exit meetings he's safe and now all of a sudden here his name pops up again. I don't see him taking the Nash root and demanding a trade but if he's unhappy and has that "I don't care" attitude that he had in his quote you may have to move him.



MDZ is a big time piece. He's a future 60 point two-way defenseman. He drastically improved his defense this year and always has the offense. He's better than Cam Fowler. Bobby Ryan is an incredible player but I don't know if a deal for him has to hurt to the point where we deal a franchise defenseman or a future 1-2 center. We are giving up 3 very integral parts of our team and a 1st round pick. As I mentioned MDZ is a future 60 point 2-way d-man, Anisimov is a future 40-50 point 2 way forward, and Hagelin is a a speedster that can pot 40ish points. That's a pretty hefty price to pay and it does hurt.

I just think that it all deals with which side of the fence you're on. From ANA's POV of course all the offers you get back are going to feel subpar because you're dealing a great player and the return will never feel up to snuff. From the other team's POV you're giving up 3 core pieces of your team and some may feel you're breaking the bank.
No offense, but in the last 4 years 60 points has been reached by defensemen a grand total of 7 times, and every single one has been a Norris winner or finalist. MDZ has not shown he's a future 60 point top pairing defenseman, he's shown he's a very good mid-pairing defenseman. (Fowler hasn't shown he's a legitimate top pairing defenseman either to this point but at least he's actually playing top pairing D and is a close second in ES ice time as opposed to a distant 4th.)

The issue with Anisimov is that the Ducks already have Koivu, Bonino, and Holland for the hopeful low end 2nd/high end 3rd role. He's an unneeded piece. The Ducks need a legitimate 2C to complement Selanne.

Hamelin is a good piece for the top 6 wing.

It's a good package, it just doesn't address the primary need of the team, which is the legitimate 2C.

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06-23-2012, 08:48 PM
  #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Staal or Girardi is the only way it is happening.

They don't need MDZ, and it doesn't matter how much Vitto79 tries to convince himself, but Anisimov is a third line center, not a second line center.
Personally I woud be ok with ANY of the top 4 but would prefer MDZ. But it is pointless, Stepan has to be included. Anisimov is not the 2nd line center we are looking for.

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06-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
He put up 41 as a 21 year old. I thought he had more points than 41 this year but 60 is still possible. So he's going to be a 50 point two way defenseman.

I don't know if Fowler will ever bee good enough of a defenseman until he proves it, MDZ has shown marked improvement already leading me to believe he can progress to a very good defenseman.
#ThingswethoughtaboutTylerMyers

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06-23-2012, 08:51 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Personally I woud be ok with ANY of the top 4 but would prefer MDZ. But it is pointless, Stepan has to be included. Anisimov is not the 2nd line center we are looking for.
I think our only issue is that I'd personally be willing to part with Staal for Ryan, but you couldn't have both Staal and Stepan. If you wanted to do something around Staal I'd be ok with it, but for both is just an absolute outrageous cost we couldn't afford.

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