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Would be interested to hear what people think a power forward is!

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12-28-2004, 09:46 AM
  #1
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Would be interested to hear what people think a power forward is!

Lot of discussion about size apparently being the sole ingredient. I see people saying that Garth Murray is a power forward. I think Garth Murray is a physical checking forward, not a power forward. Jessiman has the tools to be a power forward. To me a power forward is a guy in the mode of Cam Neely, Mark Messier, Adam Graves. Guys who hit, who score and are horses in the corners and really put the wood on the opposition.

I think the phrase "power forward" is being misapplied and is used to in the wrong context.

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12-28-2004, 09:59 AM
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I think that very often the term power forward is misused simpy because a player has size.

I think its a player who has skill and skating ability combined with the size and strength (and willingness to use them) to play a physical nasty game. And will drop the gloves.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 12-28-2004 at 10:10 AM.
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12-28-2004, 10:31 AM
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At one time people (myself included) thought Murray could be a powerforward based on the projection that he would score much more than he has. I'd say your definition is correct and Murray doesn't really have powerforward potential anymore. The only Ranger prospect that does is Jessiman (and maybe Giroux ).

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12-28-2004, 10:57 AM
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Whenever I heard the term "power forward", I always pictured a winger.

I always thought of players like the following:
Early 90s - Kevin Stevens
1994 - Adam Graves
1995-1999 - John LeClair
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind, this is just what "I" picture. A lot of people say Lindros and an in-his-prime Messier were power forwards. I never thought of a center as a power forward.

There are plenty of big, grinding centers (i.e. Primeau)

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12-28-2004, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40
Whenever I heard the term "power forward", I always pictured a winger.

I always thought of players like the following:
Early 90s - Kevin Stevens
1994 - Adam Graves
1995-1999 - John LeClair
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind, this is just what "I" picture. A lot of people say Lindros and an in-his-prime Messier were power forwards. I never thought of a center as a power forward.

There are plenty of big, grinding centers (i.e. Primeau)
Add Neely and Tkachuk to that list and it's pretty good.

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12-28-2004, 11:03 AM
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I think it's more the style of play. A powerforward is a gritty player who tries to score goals.
Cam Neely was a good powerforward, Brad Isbister is a bad one. But he still plays a powerforward's game. Just because he doesn't score 20 goals a season does not mean, he isn't a powerforward IMO.

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12-28-2004, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
To me a power forward is a guy in the mode of Cam Neely, Mark Messier, Adam Graves.
Just look at the names you've listed. You're basically defining power forward to mean an elite level of physical player. Although I think your definition of power forward is too narrow, I don't disagree with your take on Murray. I think there's a level below the Cam Neely's of the world who should be classified as power forwards but Murray isn't one of them. He doesn't have the offensive capabilities to be a second liner and score 20 goals in the NHL. I'd say someone like Gary Roberts and Scott Thornton would also qualify as power forwards even though they're not going to score as much as a Guerin or Tkachuk.

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12-28-2004, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Just look at the names you've listed. You're basically defining power forward to mean an elite level of physical player. Although I think your definition of power forward is too narrow, I don't disagree with your take on Murray. I think there's a level below the Cam Neely's of the world who should be classified as power forwards but Murray isn't one of them. He doesn't have the offensive capabilities to be a second liner and score 20 goals in the NHL. I'd say someone like Gary Roberts and Scott Thornton would also qualify as power forwards even though they're not going to score as much as a Guerin or Tkachuk.

What bout Chris Simon. He has everything, Size, Skill and is physical. Injuries hampered him before he came to the Rangers. Now he will be a big part of what Flames are going to do.

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12-28-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40
Whenever I heard the term "power forward", I always pictured a winger.

I always thought of players like the following:
Early 90s - Kevin Stevens
1994 - Adam Graves
1995-1999 - John LeClair
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind, this is just what "I" picture. A lot of people say Lindros and an in-his-prime Messier were power forwards. I never thought of a center as a power forward.
Lindros pre-concussions was the ultimate power-forward the bestthe game has ever seen.

Also IMO LeClair isn't a true "power forward", he was more along the lines of a Tim Kerr or a Dave Andreychuk. Players that used their size to dominate the area in front of the net. None of those three though were ever very aggressive at delivering big hits to defenseman ... and would never drop the gloves.

Tkachuk is much more of a "power forward" than LeClair.

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12-28-2004, 01:12 PM
  #10
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very good observation! I like the difference between

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Lindros pre-concussions was the ultimate power-forward the bestthe game has ever seen.

Also IMO LeClair isn't a true "power forward", he was more along the lines of a Tim Kerr or a Dave Andreychuk. Players that used their size to dominate the area in front of the net. None of those three though were ever very aggressive at delivering big hits to defenseman ... and would never drop the gloves.

Tkachuk is much more of a "power forward" than LeClair.
LeClair & Kerr and the others. I think your analogy is right on. That's the kind of thing I'm thinking of. To me the power forward is the big mean nasty son of a gun that can score and drop the dukes, Gordie Howe?

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12-28-2004, 01:20 PM
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I never really viewed LeClair as a Power Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40
Whenever I heard the term "power forward", I always pictured a winger.

I always thought of players like the following:
Early 90s - Kevin Stevens
1994 - Adam Graves
1995-1999 - John LeClair
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind, this is just what "I" picture. A lot of people say Lindros and an in-his-prime Messier were power forwards. I never thought of a center as a power forward.

There are plenty of big, grinding centers (i.e. Primeau)
More like a player that can score, and was big. Tim Kerr was a similar player, but not really a power forward. Not a player that used his size in the way that a Guerin did or a Stevens did in the early 90's.

Another typical power forward? Rick Tocchet

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12-28-2004, 01:22 PM
  #12
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A post I had written earlier:


Power Forwards - a look back

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The subject comes up ofter, generally whenevery Neely's name gets mentioned.

I thought it best to take a look at the power forwards since the mid 1980's, when that term became popular.

Players scuch as John LeClair, Tim Kerr and dave Andreychuk are not included. They were big strong guys that did the dirty work in front of the net, but were more into absorbing blows than delivering them. Not true power forwards IMO

First the details and then the rankings

Rick Tocchet
Pros
longevity - 1100+ games played 440 goals
playoff performer - 112 points in 145 games
Stanley Cup
Twice top 10 in pim's

Cons
Never made a 1st or 2nd team all-star
Never scored 50 and only over 40 twice

Gary Roberts
Pros
longevity - 1000+ games
Stanley Cup

Cons
Only 4 times 30+ goals
Never a top 10 in points, goals or pims
Never made a 1st or 2nd team all-star

Kevin Stevens
Pros
1st team all-star & twice a 2nd teamer
Twice a top 10 in goals
Once a top 10 in points & top 5 in goals
Stanley Cup
playoff performer 106 points in 103 games

Cons
Longevity - had 4 big years and then fizzled out (broken face)

Wendel Clark
Pros
One top 10 in goals & pim's

Cons
Durability - under 800 games
Only once with 40+ goals
Never a 1st or 2nd team all-star

Cam Neely
Pros
Four top 10's in goal scoring (two in the top 5)
Four 2nd team all-stars
Playoff performer - 89 points in 93 games
Three 50 goal years

Cons
Durability - under 750 games

Owen Nolan
Pros
Three top 10's in goal scoring (two in top 5)
One top 10 in points

Cons
Injuries an issue
Two prime years under 20 goals

Eric Lindros
Pros
Center
Three top 10's in goals (one top 5)
Three top 10's in assists
Three top 10's in points (including one 1st)
PPG - well over 1
Hart Trophy
One 1st & one 2nd team all-star
Playoff performer - 57 points in 50 games

Cons
Durability - only 70 + games 5 times

Brendan Shanahan
Pros
3 time Stanley Cup Champ
Durability 1250+ games
12 seasons with 30+ goals (5 with 40 or more)
Two 1st, one 2nd team all-star
Four times top 10 in goals (one top 5)
Twice top 10 in points
Sixteen years with 100+ pim's

Cons
None

Todd Bertuzzi
Pros
One 1st team all-star
Once top 5 in goals
Twice top 10 in points

Cons
Only twice over 30 goals
Playoffs 14 points in 24 games

Bill Guerin - borderline pf or not
Pros
Three times top 10 in goals (once top 5)
One 2nd team all-star
Durable

Cons
Not the physical presence the other are
Playoffs - 44 points in 91 games
Only 30+ goals 3 times

Keith Tkachuk
Five top 10's in goals including one first.
Twice top 10 in pim's
10 seasons of 30+ goals (four over 40)
10 seasons of 100+ pim's (four over 200)
Twice a 2nd team all-star

Cons
Playoff performance - 53 points in 81 games

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12-28-2004, 01:22 PM
  #13
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And then my follow-up rankings:

Two separate rankings.

First is for the enitre career current players assumed to have never played another game

1. Shanahan
2. Lindros
3. Tkachuk
4. Tocchet
5. Neely
6. Stevens
7. Roberts
8. Guerin
9. Nolan
10. Bertuzzi
11. Clark

Following ranking is for the players in their prime, with no regard for durability, longevity etc.

1. Lindros
2. Neely
3. Bertuzzi
4. Shanahan
5. Stevens
6. Tkachuk
7. Roberts
8. Nolan
9. Guerin
10. Tocchet
11. Clark

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12-28-2004, 01:24 PM
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I just noticed the body of the post and

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Lindros pre-concussions was the ultimate power-forward the bestthe game has ever seen.

Also IMO LeClair isn't a true "power forward", he was more along the lines of a Tim Kerr or a Dave Andreychuk. Players that used their size to dominate the area in front of the net. None of those three though were ever very aggressive at delivering big hits to defenseman ... and would never drop the gloves.

Tkachuk is much more of a "power forward" than LeClair.
realized that you pretty much what I said , but about 8 minutes earlier.

I probably saw the names without really thinking about it and made posted my thoughts.

Andreychuk was another good example.

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12-29-2004, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
And then my follow-up rankings:

Two separate rankings.

First is for the enitre career current players assumed to have never played another game

1. Shanahan
2. Lindros
3. Tkachuk
4. Tocchet
5. Neely
6. Stevens
7. Roberts
8. Guerin
9. Nolan
10. Bertuzzi
11. Clark

Following ranking is for the players in their prime, with no regard for durability, longevity etc.

1. Lindros
2. Neely
3. Bertuzzi
4. Shanahan
5. Stevens
6. Tkachuk
7. Roberts
8. Nolan
9. Guerin
10. Tocchet
11. Clark
It's no coincedence that many of those players had their careers cut short by injury.Cam Neely was the ultimate power forward.One of the best fighters in the 1980's.

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12-29-2004, 12:14 PM
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Just look at players like Lindros, Shanahan,Tkachuk, Guerin,Iginla,Bertuzzi etc... Those are power fwds.

Now my defintion of a power foward is a player who can dominate any game in a physical sense but still be a goal scorer/point producer. I dont care how skilled a player is if he cant be a factor physically and turn games around with physical play than he is not a power fwd.A power foward should be able to fight, score (goals and assists), play a physical game.Basically the type of game every player i listed above can do.

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01-01-2005, 01:53 AM
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Iginla is far and away the best power forward in the game today, probably the best player in the game today. I'm a little surprised he's been left off the list.

He's got tremendous skill; take a look at his shot and stickhandling abilities, especially in close - he puts points on the board.

His fluid skating and excellent balance allow him to beat opponents to the puck and win the trench wars. His 6'1 210lbs frame allows him to compete and knock guys down.

Then you have his gritty, in-your-face, don't take no **** just because I score a lot of goals, attitude. Lets see Bill Guerin or Keith Tkachuk fight Derian Hatcher...

He's a leader by example, a guy that scores the pretty and not so pretty goals and most important of all; he's an old-time hockey player.

You asked for my definition of a power forward, two words; Jarome Iginla.

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