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Old
07-24-2012, 07:34 PM
  #376
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I think if anything the Rangers got a lot better this summer. Granted Nash isn't the second coming of jesus, but he certainly helps some of their woes on the top line. They did lose dubinsky which will have a decent effect on their team, but I think the gain is greater than that loss.

Pittsburgh did seem to weaken, but I think they are on a similar level with us at least in terms of the off season. Even though we, potentially, lost semin we did get Ribeiro which should help our second line and 2 playmaking centers will obviously elevate those around them, which bodes well with a trade later in the season. Even though I don't think we have assests outside of perrault, schultz/erskine and thats not a lot. The wolski signing might help us a lot, but if it doesnt not a big deal.

I certainly think the SE has improved with Carolina and some of the minor moves from FLA and TB.

I think Nashville did us and the rest of the east a big favor by matching Philly, but I dont think Philly and Pitt are done this offseason or this up coming season.

Hopefully we dont have to endure a lockout, because while some are ready to anoint teams guaranteed spots this season looks to be very competitive in the east.

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07-24-2012, 08:14 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by MoJoSauce View Post
I think if anything the Rangers got a lot better this summer. Granted Nash isn't the second coming of jesus, but he certainly helps some of their woes on the top line. They did lose dubinsky which will have a decent effect on their team, but I think the gain is greater than that loss.

Pittsburgh did seem to weaken, but I think they are on a similar level with us at least in terms of the off season. Even though we, potentially, lost semin we did get Ribeiro which should help our second line and 2 playmaking centers will obviously elevate those around them, which bodes well with a trade later in the season. Even though I don't think we have assests outside of perrault, schultz/erskine and thats not a lot. The wolski signing might help us a lot, but if it doesnt not a big deal.

I certainly think the SE has improved with Carolina and some of the minor moves from FLA and TB.

I think Nashville did us and the rest of the east a big favor by matching Philly, but I dont think Philly and Pitt are done this offseason or this up coming season.

Hopefully we dont have to endure a lockout, because while some are ready to anoint teams guaranteed spots this season looks to be very competitive in the east.
Wait. They have to actually play the games?

(I agree wholeheartedly.)

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07-24-2012, 08:54 PM
  #378
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personally i think the shea weber contract and the parise and suter contracts almost guarantees a lockout.

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07-24-2012, 08:56 PM
  #379
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If there's a lockout. Rage. The NHL has a really good thing going. Don't piss it away. It's almost inconceivable.

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07-24-2012, 09:02 PM
  #380
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If there's a lockout. Rage. The NHL has a really good thing going. Don't piss it away. It's almost inconceivable.
didnt really hurt the NBA this year, but yes agree another lockout so soon would be a big blow to hockey.

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07-24-2012, 09:26 PM
  #381
MoJoSauce
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personally i think the shea weber contract and the parise and suter contracts almost guarantees a lockout.
I don't think it guarantees a lockout per se, but I certainly thinks it shoots the initial offer the NHL made in the foot.

Can't remember which article I was reading, might have been puck daddy but they were basically saying this CBA is basically owners vs owners which we can see between big market vs small.

Hopefully the owners get their **** together and realize they have a good thing going and its not the players causing the problem

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07-25-2012, 01:01 AM
  #382
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The NBA's playoff choking superstar won a Championship after their lockout, so maybe a lockout would help Ovie?

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07-25-2012, 07:15 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by MoJoSauce View Post
I don't think it guarantees a lockout per se, but I certainly thinks it shoots the initial offer the NHL made in the foot.

Can't remember which article I was reading, might have been puck daddy but they were basically saying this CBA is basically owners vs owners which we can see between big market vs small.

Hopefully the owners get their **** together and realize they have a good thing going and its not the players causing the problem
That's the thing. There's a group of owners who have a great thing going. There's a group of owners who are getting killed. It is in both of their interests to spend less on the players, so that's the direction they're trying to go.

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07-25-2012, 07:48 AM
  #384
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That's the thing. There's a group of owners who have a great thing going. There's a group of owners who are getting killed. It is in both of their interests to spend less on the players, so that's the direction they're trying to go.
meanwhie one owner in the gettin killed catagory goes all in on two huge ufa contracts and another owner decides to go ahead and kill off a small franchise on his own.

i dont see how the owners get a cba with rollbacks or reductions in revenue percentage of the salary cap with salaries and going thru the roof with both ends of the earning scale going big on contracts.

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07-25-2012, 07:53 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
meanwhie one owner in the gettin killed catagory goes all in on two huge ufa contracts and another owner decides to go ahead and kill off a small franchise on his own.

i dont see how the owners get a cba with rollbacks or reductions in revenue percentage of the salary cap with salaries and going thru the roof with both ends of the earning scale going big on contracts.
MIN shouldn't be a team that gets killed. They're the "State of Hockey." They have the ability to sell out every game.

But yes, the hypocrisy of an owner publicly crying poor and then spending as he did is rather amusing. Doesn't change the financial reality of the league, though.

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07-25-2012, 08:10 AM
  #386
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MIN shouldn't be a team that gets killed. They're the "State of Hockey." They have the ability to sell out every game.

But they don't sell out every game. They have a 40% fairweather fanbase like most other mediocre US hockey markets. This offseason will help them a little bit, but if the team stinks, the place won't be packed.

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07-25-2012, 08:11 AM
  #387
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well....i am not planning on hockey for this year. i have hopes but the shea weber thing pretty well turned the light off for me. i will believe it now when i see it

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07-25-2012, 08:15 AM
  #388
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But they don't sell out every game. They have a 40% fairweather fanbase like most other mediocre US hockey markets. This offseason will help them a little bit, but if the team stinks, the place won't be packed.
Let me rephrase: if they were run better, they'd be able to sell out every game much more easily than the true small markets would. They sold out every game for 10 years, as an expansion team. If they had been managed better they'd be in better financial shape.

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07-25-2012, 08:17 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
meanwhie one owner in the gettin killed catagory goes all in on two huge ufa contracts and another owner decides to go ahead and kill off a small franchise on his own.

i dont see how the owners get a cba with rollbacks or reductions in revenue percentage of the salary cap with salaries and going thru the roof with both ends of the earning scale going big on contracts.
What was the alternative for Nashville in that situation? Losing Weber for 4 late firsts could very likely have been a death knell itself. Better to go down swinging than getting pushed around and watching the team and fan base you built slowly dwindle down as a result.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nashville had decided early on to match and let it play out for nearly a week to draw more attention to the situation.

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07-25-2012, 08:18 AM
  #390
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If there's a lockout. Rage. The NHL has a really good thing going. Don't piss it away. It's almost inconceivable.
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

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07-25-2012, 08:28 AM
  #391
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well....i am not planning on hockey for this year. i have hopes but the shea weber thing pretty well turned the light off for me. i will believe it now when i see it
What I'm hearing is, 60/40 lockout, but it's highly unlikely to last the full season either way.

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07-25-2012, 08:59 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
What was the alternative for Nashville in that situation? Losing Weber for 4 late firsts could very likely have been a death knell itself. Better to go down swinging than getting pushed around and watching the team and fan base you built slowly dwindle down as a result.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nashville had decided early on to match and let it play out for nearly a week to draw more attention to the situation.
i was referring to snider.

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07-25-2012, 09:04 AM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
personally i think the shea weber contract and the parise and suter contracts almost guarantees a lockout.
I really don't want another lockout, but if that's what it takes to end these stupid contracts then bring it on. The system is broken.

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07-25-2012, 09:10 AM
  #394
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i was referring to snider.
He's swimming in Comcast money, though. Nobody would ever expect him to cry poor, so his actions don't do much to undermine the crying at the bottom of the spectrum.

The way I see the owners' positions is like this:

Small/very small markets: We can't afford to spend even to the floor much less stay competitive with the big dogs. Give us more revenue sharing.

Medium/large markets: We can't afford to push ourselves into the upper echelon because we can't keeping spending to the cap every year if it keeps rising. Do something to slow it down.

Largest markets: We're doing great, but we don't want to subsidize the smaller markets just so they can compete with us more easily. Don't give them more of our money via revenue sharing, just cut the players' share of revenue.

If you put MIN in the medium market category their spending sort of makes sense as a way to try and grow themselves back into the kind of team that sells out every game. Philly is obviously among the largest markets and should have no problem paying Weber what they offered, but they're not going to want to make it easier for a team like NSH to fight back if they can help it.

What you get is a bunch of positions that aren't necessarily undermined by their own actions as individuals, but who's only common ground is "give the players less." How likely we are to see a long, painful lockout probably depends on which group can dominate the ownership's side of the negotiations.

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07-25-2012, 09:21 AM
  #395
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You also have similar divisions within the players though. For a large portion of the NHLPA, a year off represents a rather large percentage of their hockey career (and thus hockey income). Do you really think guys like Jay Beagle want to lose a year of salary?

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07-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #396
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That's a good point. I guess I see it as less important, because I see it as the owners vs. Fehr more than anything (and the owners have the upper hand to begin with). But it's definitely true, the top dogs are seeing tremendous growth and many have lockout protection via signing bonuses, while the role-players and borderline NHLers are almost totally stagnant. They have the most to lose from hard-line negotiations, and probably the least to gain (since they're not going to see much of the growth regardless).

If there's one perspective that made me worry less about a lockout this time it's the point that, this time, there's a legitimate TV deal that's going to put pressure to keep anything from lasting too long, much moreso than there was last time.

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07-25-2012, 10:19 AM
  #397
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i was referring to snider.
Ah. I read that one wrong. In that case I agree and it crystallizes the differences between the two sides. One team shouldn't be able to back another team into a potential lose-lose life or death decision due to sheer financial strength.


Last edited by Stewie G: 07-25-2012 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Add add'l thought.
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07-25-2012, 10:27 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
didnt really hurt the NBA this year, but yes agree another lockout so soon would be a big blow to hockey.
No it won't be. This kind of talk always surfaces in ALL sports before/during/immediately after a lockout/strike.

Fans always come back and eventually the two sides figure things out.

NHL is not sustainable as it is. They simply don't have the appeal of the other major sports and nowhere near the TV contracts.

Owners situation+initial offer+Donald Fehr = guaranteed lockout

Anyone who thinks there will be hockey this year will be sorely dissappointed IMO. As soon as Fehr was hired a bit ago I think all of us deep down inside new their would be serious issues.

Either way it maybe a good thing for the Caps especially if they don't bring in a scoring winger (Semin should be the one IMO). Time for Forsberg/Wilson to develop and Kuznetsov to get his senses about him.

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07-25-2012, 10:51 AM
  #399
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If the NHL is locked out. Can NHL players sign 1 year deals with the KHL to keep playing?
How many players do you think we loose for good to other leagues.
Players will want to play and not sit on the couch when owners fight.

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07-25-2012, 11:35 AM
  #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
If the NHL is locked out. Can NHL players sign 1 year deals with the KHL to keep playing?
How many players do you think we loose for good to other leagues.
Players will want to play and not sit on the couch when owners fight.
They will probably sign contracts with out clause in case the lockout stops. I could imagine some Russian players wanting to play full season back home, but that's it.

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