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The Nash Thread III (all things Nash here)

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Old
06-23-2012, 06:40 PM
  #351
leesmith
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Right on the money again....My James/Nash comparison had some holes no doubt lol.

Howson unfortuately will cave though, the player always gets his way in these things because its too big of a distraction for everyone (player, team, coach, etc).
Yep.

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06-23-2012, 06:42 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
According to who? We don't know the offers, but if Pavelski was offered in a package and Howson demanded Couture, I absolutely side with Nash from that point forward. That would be a fair value trade and Howson stupidly thinking he was going to get more when no one was even close to that was his blunder.

The fact that this GM is so dumb as to think deals will get substantially better after July 1 is unbelievable. Cap constraints again read their head after July 1, particularly when he is well aware of the restrictions of Nash's list.

People can hate Nash if they want, but that does not change the incompetence of this GM in handling this situation and it doesn't suggest that Craig Patrick has learned much from the Jagr trade.
Couldn't agree with you more. If JVR is "Nash lite" and he only fetches Luke Schenn as a return, what's Rick Nash worth? As you know Capn, "comparables" play a big role in business transactions.

At the end of this, we're probably going to end up hating both Nash AND Howson - and McConnell for letting the circus go on.

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06-23-2012, 06:45 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
And that's EXACTLY why it's a good threat for Nash's agent to make - to get a deal done in July whatever the return.
Yes and no. Howson could say, "why that dirty son of a *****, if you want to play hardball Resnick then we will just let Rick sit it out.

That may not be good for Howson's long term, but threats can be met with ahrd headedness. Not likely happening but just another scenario.

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06-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #354
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And that's EXACTLY why it's a good threat for Nash's agent to make - to get a deal done in July whatever the return.
Yep....And the CBJ brass will counter by making Nash look like a turd "vetoing good deals" in the public eye.

That's why they released that Ottawa nugget to Portzline. Team Nash wouldn't have floated that out there to make him look selfish.

Time to expand your list bud....

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06-23-2012, 06:51 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Yep....And the CBJ brass will counter by making Nash look like a turd "vetoing good deals" in the public eye.

That's why they released that Ottawa nugget to Portzline. Team Nash wouldn't have floated that out there to make him look selfish.

Time to expand your list bud....
Or time for Howson to grovel for San Jose's original offer?

That Ottawa deal is total garbage. If that's what we are asking Nash to waive for, this GM has already totally blown it.

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06-23-2012, 06:54 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Or time for Howson to grovel for San Jose's original offer?

That Ottawa deal is total garbage. If that's what we are asking Nash to waive for, this GM has already totally blown it.
What was San Jose's original offer? There have been so many.

I know you really like Pavelski so I'm sure he was part of it.

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06-23-2012, 07:03 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
What was San Jose's original offer? There have been so many.

I know you really like Pavelski so I'm sure he was part of it.
There were multiple iterations based around Pavelski. Niemi's name has been out there, with Nash and other deals. Jason Demers or Ryan Clowe's names also have been included. As was their pick in the draft...which would now have to be next years's pick.

The team that gets the best player wins. To me, it is arguable Pavelski is already as good as Nash. The other pieces would sweeten the pot. Even with Nash, I think there is a chance the draft pick could be a high one--the Sharks are teetering on the edge as their window closes. The Senators on the other hand, are on the rise.

We know Couture is a no-go. Base a deal around Pavelski, Clowe and their first. See what can be done to add Niemi or, for that matter, Thomas Greiss, who could challenge Bobrovsky. That package does more to immediately turn around the team than Ottawa's does.

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06-23-2012, 07:20 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
There were multiple iterations based around Pavelski. Niemi's name has been out there, with Nash and other deals. Jason Demers or Ryan Clowe's names also have been included. As was their pick in the draft...which would now have to be next years's pick.

The team that gets the best player wins. To me, it is arguable Pavelski is already as good as Nash. The other pieces would sweeten the pot. Even with Nash, I think there is a chance the draft pick could be a high one--the Sharks are teetering on the edge as their window closes. The Senators on the other hand, are on the rise.

We know Couture is a no-go. Base a deal around Pavelski, Clowe and their first. See what can be done to add Niemi or, for that matter, Thomas Greiss, who could challenge Bobrovsky. That package does more to immediately turn around the team than Ottawa's does.
I understand why you like that deal better than Ottawa's for instant return:

I just think we are going to take it in the pooper for a while anyway and acquiring Pavelski (who is Nash's age) and Clowe (who is older) really does nothing to improve our forwards long term. If the two other pieces were really included though: first rounder and Niemi in highsight both with where we are today and post bobrovsky and drafting a million goalies I would have taken it. I can't figure out why San Jose would gut their core like that though to acquire a player the same age....

My thing with Ottawa is based around Foligno who is 5 years younger than Clowe, while putting up the same numbers last year and Zbad's promise (I know there is risk, but he's a good one) and a goalie prospect was tempting. More of a youth movement there with Ottawa. It can be said too that was Ottawa's rumored first offer, I doubt Howson even had a chance to make a counter offer thought (my speculation) because he needed Nash's approval to expand his list.

Thanks for responding though....Agree to disagree on Ottawa (irrelevant anyway) but yeah the SJ offer looks better and better each day lol.

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06-23-2012, 07:21 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
There were multiple iterations based around Pavelski. Niemi's name has been out there, with Nash and other deals. Jason Demers or Ryan Clowe's names also have been included. As was their pick in the draft...which would now have to be next years's pick.

The team that gets the best player wins. To me, it is arguable Pavelski is already as good as Nash. The other pieces would sweeten the pot. Even with Nash, I think there is a chance the draft pick could be a high one--the Sharks are teetering on the edge as their window closes. The Senators on the other hand, are on the rise.

We know Couture is a no-go. Base a deal around Pavelski, Clowe and their first. See what can be done to add Niemi or, for that matter, Thomas Greiss, who could challenge Bobrovsky. That package does more to immediately turn around the team than Ottawa's does.
Pass on Clowe, get the goalie - either one of them. Goalie is the only position of strength in the Sharks prospect pool and we need one (or maybe two) of them.

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06-23-2012, 08:02 PM
  #360
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The idea that Nash will "play hard" for this team is mind boggling to me. He has not "played hard" for more than 10 games a season for at least three years.

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06-23-2012, 08:10 PM
  #361
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The idea that Nash will "play hard" for this team is mind boggling to me. He has not "played hard" for more than 10 games a season for at least three years.
You and I must not be watching the same games. I disagree. Just because he isn't flying around like Dorsett or Mackenzie doesn't indicate effort or lack thereof. I love Dmac and Dorse, but not every player plays the same style. I like Huselius, too because his skill and calm are something this team missed dearly in his injury absence. Who takes over that role?

Who do foks around here think will be scoring goals for the CBJ this season? Are we banking on our "heart and soul" OSU hero to show up this year, unlike last year? Where was Umberger last year and why does he get a pass? Oh yeah, he's a hero because he fought the Blues for a soccer ball...

I love this team, but I dread seeing the even more pitiful offense once Nash is gone. I'm sick of the fans beyotching about his "effort". Different player, and most likely the best ever to wear a CBJ uniform.

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06-23-2012, 08:27 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post


this is pretty much how I feel. Regarding the NMC, good for Nash for securing it but what it means is protection from getting moved when he doesn't wish to. To massage it into "you can only move me where I want to go... for the good of the team" is too rich for me. Ultimately, the NMC is part of a contract with Columbus, one that Nash wishes to no longer honor. Not code for Nash getting to call all the shots.

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06-23-2012, 08:30 PM
  #363
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With the JVR trade to Toronto is that his landing place or do you think Burke is coming after Nash with JVR+?

edit: guess this has already been suggested.

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06-23-2012, 08:32 PM
  #364
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If I had to put money on it. Both Philly and Toronto are out. JVR is Nash light. Philly will either stand pat, or more likely IMO, this is a move to clear way for Bobby Ryan. Ryan is better than JVR in basically every way and wants to come to the Flyers from all accounts.

On the Plus side that would basically dry up the options other than Nash with San Jose, NYR, and Ottaws (i know) still in need. Parise isn't going to any of those teams so...
Ryan would be right across the river from where he grew up in NJ.Lends credence to him wanting to go there.

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06-23-2012, 08:38 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by 99 CBJ View Post
What if Thursday's meeting was to ask for that waiver to go to the Sen's and it was denied, why else do you have reporters gathered to ask questions after the meeting. I believe the meeting was to ask about an offer that was made and it was refused, why have the meeting at all, and the reporters were there by CBJ request hoping to make an announcement.
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And you wouldn't call a press conference unless you know the outcome of the meeting which wasn't known, but a media availability can turn into a press conference in a heartbeat. What was the point of a random Q&A that nothing came out of ,it was a waste of words & time.
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Yes I know Howson can't say anything without hurting himself. I just think it interesting/strange that after the Ottawa talk there was a meeting and a Q&A session scheduled before the draft, that went nowhere.
Your first point was flatly refuted yet you stuck to it. The in this last post you answered your own question. Medoia availability prior to an event like the draft is SOP. If the team didn't do it, someone in the media would tweet what a bush league operation this is, and there'd be yet another ****storn here.

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Kind of like my idea that Nash would want to play with his buddy "Spezza" in Ottawa for a pretty good Sens team.
Why did you pt quotes around Spezza's name?

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Originally Posted by 650X2 View Post
With the JVR trade to Toronto is that his landing place or do you think Burke is coming after Nash with JVR+?

edit: guess this has already been suggested.
It is certainly a possibility. He knew JVR had been discussed with CBJ. Rumors even before the draft that CBJ was looking for forwards, then CBJ drafts Murray, makes it even more so. Maybe he also knew CBJ didn't want Schenn in package for Nash?

Meh. It's all spitballing, but, well, new chapter and whatnot.

2013 1st + JVR + Kulemin + ?

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Old
06-23-2012, 08:48 PM
  #366
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You know there is another side to that coin. Nash signed the contract for a specific length of time at a pretty hefty amount of money, so now he just gets to say I no longer wish to honor that contract and wish to be traded. And the team is supposed to just accept any offer because it's limited to his list of acceptable partners. He is the one wishing to alter the terms.
And there is a flip side to that. Nash signed here with the promise we would compete. A few years later, the team went to him to let him know they were not going to compete. They were going to rebuild. Meaning that the prime years of his career would be wasted with no chance to compete for a Cup.

Rick Nash wasn't the bozo that let the free world know this. Scott Howson was. And once it was common knowledge the sharks smelled blood and now they are circling waiting for Howson to tire and give Nash up for a discount.

The list doesn't prevent Howson from fielding offers or making counteroffers. And yet, the offers are not there at the price he wants. That is the market giving Howson a statement on Nash's value in these circumstances. Circumstances worsened by Howson's disclosure.

The fans will be the ultimate losers in this. And by replacing Howson or even hiring JD, ownership could have improved odds of a better deal by creating a thought amongst GMs that Nash might stay. Hard to do that when it is clear Nash will not stay with this management team.

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06-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #367
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So lets analyze this:

Philly obviously wanted to dump JVR - Is Schenn any better than Methot? (or at least yet?)

Obviously the jackets wanted Bob -

The Jackets have to trade Nash

So the thing that stopped a potential trade with Philly was the plusses GMSH was requiring. If he had been realistic he may be over the hurdle and got to keep his three picks.

Nash & Methot for JVR+ Bob + #1 + (herein lies the problem)

So that didn't work so on to Toronto using JVR to get Nash

Same problem- JVR + who? . Goalie is gone; Schenn is gone; we probably don't want Nadri. #5 pick gone. He has said (or at least it has been reported) that he won't trade Gardiner-and we probably don't need him anyway. i don't see that one happening either.

Sj won't budge on Coture and Howson won't either-scratch them.

NY Rangers could be in the drivers seat if they would just make a realistic offer and Howson would accept.

This gives us all a headache.

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06-24-2012, 12:43 AM
  #368
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It seems that list of the potential dance partners is dwindling. And in the absence of hard information, I have to wonder if GMSH is over-valuing Nash.

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06-24-2012, 03:15 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
It seems that list of the potential dance partners is dwindling. And in the absence of hard information, I have to wonder if GMSH is over-valuing Nash.
agreed, by my count the only "known" suiters left are NYR and SJS with "maybes" as BOS and VAN

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06-24-2012, 03:49 AM
  #370
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Any official word on what teams are on his list?

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06-24-2012, 07:14 AM
  #371
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Derby, apparently you and I have watched different games. Nash has made almost no consistent effort since the Olympic year where he developed the habit of "conserving" his energy.

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06-24-2012, 08:01 AM
  #372
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Any official word on what teams are on his list?
No. Rumors around the trade deadline there were five teams. SJS, NYR, BOS, LAK, TOR, "believed to be..." Thought I saw a list somewher that had VAN instead of one of those, but I guess I don't remember.

So anyway, like I said - no.

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06-24-2012, 08:09 AM
  #373
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If Howson does have a set list of teams from Nash of who he would go to, then Howson needs to start being more aggressive and start creating offers for himself. I don't know why, but I'm starting to get the sense that the entire market on Nash is totally void of any suitors right now.

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06-24-2012, 08:26 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Any official word on what teams are on his list?
From what I can tell there is no official word on anything having to do with this trade other then what Howson has told us. The list and any trade offers you see are purely speculation and IMO to many are taking this speculation as fact when it's not.

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06-24-2012, 09:16 AM
  #375
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More likely Toronto is out now that they got their winger for peanuts.

Remove Philly & Toronto the list shrinks to 5:

LA: (No need for him as they have Carter, plus why ruin a good thing)
VAN: (Don't really have the prospects or young roster forwards willing to part with)
BOS: (They have the goods but only bargain bin interest/possible offers)
NYR: (See Boston: But even more stingy. Plus Sather "doesn't trade kids"
SJ: (One good young roster forward (couture) won't be moved. Older core, bad farm.

Really interesting theory though. However, I don't see what Toronto could add now that the draft is over. Maybe picks for next years draft....
its not "stingy", they are not giving up their defense, they are not giving up kreider after his performance in the playoffs and stepan can be a future number one center and right now, no one is close to replacing him. Either way, with one of those ur insane GM will want more

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