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Old
06-24-2012, 08:28 PM
  #451
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I predict Nash's trade will happen AFTER the good UFA's are all gone, and pressure mounts in certain cities who missed out on the premium UFAs to "do something". That's probably when his value will be higher.

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06-24-2012, 09:09 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I predict Nash's trade will happen AFTER the good UFA's are all gone, and pressure mounts in certain cities who missed out on the premium UFAs to "do something". That's probably when his value will be higher.
Yep....Especially is Ryan goes to Philly and Parise goes to Pitt for example, there are a couple other teams in that conference (the big boys) that will want to keep pace.

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06-24-2012, 09:12 PM
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I predict Nash's trade will happen AFTER the good UFA's are all gone, and pressure mounts in certain cities who missed out on the premium UFAs to "do something". That's probably when his value will be higher.
I'm pretty sure Capn has been describing that phenomenon as "Howson's delusion".

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06-24-2012, 10:08 PM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Yep....Especially is Ryan goes to Philly and Parise goes to Pitt for example, there are a couple other teams in that conference (the big boys) that will want to keep pace.
If that happens i wonder if the Rangers would be the team feeling the most pressure to keep up.

What would the Devils have to trade if they can't re-sign Parise? Because after looking at capgeek i can't see much in the way of return. http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=20

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06-24-2012, 10:15 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by 3 goals = chili View Post
If that happens i wonder if the Rangers would be the team feeling the most pressure to keep up.

What would the Devils have to trade if they can't re-sign Parise? Because after looking at capgeek i can't see much in the way of return. http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=20
I'm not sure I can envision any circumstance where Nash would want to go to NJ, or where NJ would want Nash's contract even if he were open to the idea.

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06-24-2012, 10:28 PM
  #456
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Keith, I think you did an excellent summary of the adverse impact the continuing presence of Nash would have on the effort to change the culture.
Heck, Nash is the embodiment, 75% effort is ok, of the culture we are trying to change.

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06-25-2012, 12:19 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I'm not sure I can envision any circumstance where Nash would want to go to NJ, or where NJ would want Nash's contract even if he were open to the idea.
Candidly, I can't see NJ losing Parise this summer.

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06-25-2012, 01:23 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by 3 goals = chili View Post
If that happens i wonder if the Rangers would be the team feeling the most pressure to keep up.

What would the Devils have to trade if they can't re-sign Parise? Because after looking at capgeek i can't see much in the way of return. http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=20
I can see Tedenby and Josefson be asked/offered and although they played in the NHL, I think those would be the 2 prospects and not the NHL ready player.

Looking at the roster, I like Zajac but he is a UFA after 1 year so we shouldn't ask for him. Howson will ask for Henrique or Larsson and that becomes the deal breaker.

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06-25-2012, 05:36 AM
  #459
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I'll preface this by saying I'm a Nash fan and sad to see him go. I've been a season ticket holder since the day seats became available ("Day 1" as it says in my correspondance)....

I am not opposed to moving Nash for "futures". True or not, the Ottawa connection is very appealing to me. I know we all (myself included) would prefer to have some level of scoring come back in a deal but I personally think we can pick up the scoring with minimal change. I'm expecting Johansen to improve in his goal scoring. I expect a full year of "scoring" out of Brass and RJ (sure, they may not happen but this is my expectation and hope). I expect Atkinson to score 20.....

A trade for a guy like Kulemin and Nash for futures would be OK with me. I think the biggest loss is the "Threat" of scoring and more pressure on the other guys. Maybe that's off with a better defense and team concept?

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06-25-2012, 06:08 AM
  #460
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I have a feeling a dark horse team is going to emerge.

Detroit

They are sitting on a massive amount of cap space and will have to do something if they miss out on Parise.

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06-25-2012, 06:48 AM
  #461
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I can see why some are worried about Nash's presence in the locker room, but the person I want out of there is Mason.

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06-25-2012, 06:55 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
I have a feeling a dark horse team is going to emerge.

Detroit

They are sitting on a massive amount of cap space and will have to do something if they miss out on Parise.
I don't think they are going to miss out on Parise. In fact, I think they'll get both him and Suter (maybe just being cynical there, but that's my take).

If the Wings do miss out on Parise, what kind of return would you expect? Looking through their system, they have guys like Pulkkinen, Nyquist and Tatar, but that's about it in terms of decent prospects that are not that far from being NHL-ready.

Edit - I don't count Brendan Smith in my statement above since I think the Wings are counting on him being on their roster this year and the fact that the Jackets need forwards more than they need defensemen.


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Old
06-25-2012, 07:25 AM
  #463
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For some reason I feel that Nash's value is diminishing.

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06-25-2012, 07:41 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by megashock5 View Post
I can see why some are worried about Nash's presence in the locker room, but the person I want out of there is Mason.
I think you little to no fears there. Yes, he's still on the roster, but Mason was never looked to for leadership or culture. However, Like Brass, the leadership never adequetely policed the lockerroom, rooting out and stopping these problems before they got worse and worse. A guy like Mason should never have been as big a problem has he's become, thats two fold, as I mentioned, weak leadership in the lockerroom and an excuse-making front office that likely turned the other way one too many times on Mason's ego because they saw the promise of what his first season produced.

People hinted last season that it looked like the team played harder in front of Sanford or York then it did Mason, the players, in a roundabout way and completely the wrong way, I might add, may have been telling management for a while that the kid should be on his way out without actually policing it or saying it.

Its up to the new leadership group in the lockerroom to let the incoming players and the current group know whats expected. With a Nash trade, the players that have been in that tier that have not be speaking up because of "respect for Nash as captain", they can come out and set a tone and an expectation of what happens when you walk through that lockerroom door or step on the ice.

I've been saying that its going to be up to management to sort this mess out because they have the power to move some guys, sometimes, its not so much who you bring in, but who you ship out. Rick Nash wasn't actively sabotaging the team, but he was, in a sense, the wall that had to be broken down to get culture change. The fact that management was content to let this heirarchy continue into next season is troubling. Nash asked out, yes, but I think it was past time to do so as it was obvious Management was none to eager to pull a trigger like this, even if it was for the best for the future of the organization.


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06-25-2012, 07:51 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
I think you little to no fears there. Yes, he's still on the roster, but Mason was never looked to for leadership or culture. However, Like Brass, the leadership never adequetely policed the lockerroom, rooting out and stopping these problems before they got worse and worse. A guy like Mason should never have been as big a problem has he's become, thats two fold, as I mentioned, weak leadership in the lockerroom and an excuse-making front office that likely turned the other way one two many times on Mason's ego because they saw the promise of what his first season produced.

People hinted last season that it looked like the team played harder in front of Sanford or York then it did Mason, the players, in a roundabout way and completely the wrong way, I might add, may have been telling management for a while that the kid should be on his way out without actually policing it or saying it.

Its up to the new leadership group in the lockerroom to let the incoming players and the current group know whats expected. With a Nash trade, the players that have been in that tier that have not be speaking up because of "respect for Nash as captain", they can come out and set a tone and an expectation of what happens when you walk through that lockerroom door or step on the ice.

I've been saying that its going to be up to management to sort this mess out because they have the power to move some guys, sometimes, its not so much who you bring in, but who you ship out. Rick Nash wasn't actively sabotaging the team, but he was, in a sense, the wall that had to be broken down to get culture change. The fact that management was content to let this heirarchy continue into next season is troubling. Nash asked out, yes, but I think it was past time to do so as it was obvious Management was none to eager to pull a trigger like this, even if it was for the best for the future of the organization.
Nice Post. Pretty much my thoughts.

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06-25-2012, 08:09 AM
  #466
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While Nash has his list of teams he'll go to, the Jackets should also have a list of teams they won't trade him to, mainly teams in our own division, especially Detroit. That's all we would need is to have to face him 6 times a year. Nashville wouldn't trade Lindbach to a divisional opponent and we should follow suit. But this is Scott Howson we are talking about, and God only knows what he is thinking.
I still say the best end to this scenario is to can Howson, bring in Davidson as GM and let him talk to Nash about building the team around him by someone who has the balls and know how to actually get the job done. Nash's attitude could totally change if there were leadership that had a clue of what they were doing.

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06-25-2012, 08:15 AM
  #467
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While Nash has his list of teams he'll go to, the Jackets should also have a list of teams they won't trade him to, mainly teams in our own division, especially Detroit. That's all we would need is to have to face him 6 times a year. Nashville wouldn't trade Lindbach to a divisional opponent and we should follow suit. But this is Scott Howson we are talking about, and God only knows what he is thinking.
I still say the best end to this scenario is to can Howson, bring in Davidson as GM and let him talk to Nash about building the team around him by someone who has the balls and know how to actually get the job done. Nash's attitude could totally change if there were leadership that had a clue of what they were doing.
Never say never. I'd rather not deal with the circus of facing Nash 4 times a year at Nationwide (or however many it is) But, I'd welcome all offers at this point, because it seems like the suitors aren't exactly lining up out the door. Any move to a divisional rival should include additional assets though, thats my only stipulation. It not only has to be the best offer, it needs to be slightly better than that.

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06-25-2012, 09:22 AM
  #468
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I predict Nash's trade will happen AFTER the good UFA's are all gone, and pressure mounts in certain cities who missed out on the premium UFAs to "do something". That's probably when his value will be higher.
I don't think his value will get any higher regardless of what happens with Ryan, Parise, Suter, etc.

1. Detroit is one of the teams in discussion for Parise and Suter and I'd honestly have to take a break from paying attention to the team if this GM trades Nash to Detroit and hands a gun to them to repeatedly shoot us with. Detroit is finally looking vulnerable. We should not do anything to help them.

2. Pittsburgh is not a good fit. They'd be looking to trade away a defenseman like Martin, maybe they'd throw in a Tyler Kennedy, Dustin Jeffrey and/or Eric Tangradi in some combination, but I'm not sure that any of those guys have that great of an upside--Tangradi in particular has been a disappointment.

3. San Jose isn't going to give up Couture then any more than now. They've made their offer and we've rebuffed it for whatever reason. They aren't even in on Ryan and I'm not sure they could do the others without a separate move to make cap space. In other words, they have every reason to get a trade for Nash done with us now because their other options are less likely to pan out. And yet, we are still at a stalemate here.

4. Minnesota is rumored to be trying to get Parise and/or Suter. Which is odd in and of itself. To me, Minnesota is a team that needs to be rebuilding and even if they got both of those guys, they'd only just barely make the playoffs. Granlund and Coyle are interesting prospects, but there isn't much else there and you have to think they'd be unlikely to trade those guys as the whole point seems to be to supplement with UFAs rather than to trade away their young prospects.

5. I'd avoid trading Nash to Nashville for the same reason as Detroit. If they miss out on Suter, throw them an anchor, not a life preserver. Beyond that, do they have any forwards we actually would want?

6. The Leafs ship sailed as soon as they took the #5 pick, moreso when they traded away Schenn for JVR. They may take a run at Parise, but missing out on him will simply get Burke more focused on goaltending or a center.

7. Never say never with Lou Lamoriello, but this would seem to be a tough one. Henrique is about the only young forward in the Devil's system of interest. Their strength is, as always, on defense.

That leaves Sather and the Rangers. Of course, if he knows he's the only one left in the game because everyone else has either gone another direction or lacks the pieces necessary, then the price isn't any better then than now.

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06-25-2012, 09:29 AM
  #469
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I don't think they are going to miss out on Parise. In fact, I think they'll get both him and Suter (maybe just being cynical there, but that's my take).

If the Wings do miss out on Parise, what kind of return would you expect? Looking through their system, they have guys like Pulkkinen, Nyquist and Tatar, but that's about it in terms of decent prospects that are not that far from being NHL-ready.

Edit - I don't count Brendan Smith in my statement above since I think the Wings are counting on him being on their roster this year and the fact that the Jackets need forwards more than they need defensemen.
I don't know a lot about Detroit's system past those you mentioned, but I suspect they have some decent European players who are developing well. That's just how they do it.

Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, and a first would be a very nice return.

I wouldn't worry about trading within division, because I don't think we are going to be in this division much longer once the CBA is settled.

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06-25-2012, 11:36 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I don't think his value will get any higher regardless of what happens with Ryan, Parise, Suter, etc.

1. Detroit is one of the teams in discussion for Parise and Suter and I'd honestly have to take a break from paying attention to the team if this GM trades Nash to Detroit and hands a gun to them to repeatedly shoot us with. Detroit is finally looking vulnerable. We should not do anything to help them.

2. Pittsburgh is not a good fit. They'd be looking to trade away a defenseman like Martin, maybe they'd throw in a Tyler Kennedy, Dustin Jeffrey and/or Eric Tangradi in some combination, but I'm not sure that any of those guys have that great of an upside--Tangradi in particular has been a disappointment.

3. San Jose isn't going to give up Couture then any more than now. They've made their offer and we've rebuffed it for whatever reason. They aren't even in on Ryan and I'm not sure they could do the others without a separate move to make cap space. In other words, they have every reason to get a trade for Nash done with us now because their other options are less likely to pan out. And yet, we are still at a stalemate here.

4. Minnesota is rumored to be trying to get Parise and/or Suter. Which is odd in and of itself. To me, Minnesota is a team that needs to be rebuilding and even if they got both of those guys, they'd only just barely make the playoffs. Granlund and Coyle are interesting prospects, but there isn't much else there and you have to think they'd be unlikely to trade those guys as the whole point seems to be to supplement with UFAs rather than to trade away their young prospects.

5. I'd avoid trading Nash to Nashville for the same reason as Detroit. If they miss out on Suter, throw them an anchor, not a life preserver. Beyond that, do they have any forwards we actually would want?

6. The Leafs ship sailed as soon as they took the #5 pick, moreso when they traded away Schenn for JVR. They may take a run at Parise, but missing out on him will simply get Burke more focused on goaltending or a center.

7. Never say never with Lou Lamoriello, but this would seem to be a tough one. Henrique is about the only young forward in the Devil's system of interest. Their strength is, as always, on defense.

That leaves Sather and the Rangers. Of course, if he knows he's the only one left in the game because everyone else has either gone another direction or lacks the pieces necessary, then the price isn't any better then than now.
well thought out.

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06-25-2012, 12:03 PM
  #471
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well thought out.
Not hardly....

Being a Rangers fan I'm sure you're really hoping it turns out that way.

Nash will stay in Columbus before he gets dumped for your "garbage offered"

Fight on Howson....Real Value or Nash stays....

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06-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Not hardly....

Being a Rangers fan I'm sure you're really hoping it turns out that way.

Nash will stay in Columbus before he gets dumped for your "garbage offered"

Fight on Howson....Real Value or Nash stays....
Haven't paid too much attention to these situations in the past, have you?

Nash will get moved before the season starts and Howson will do whatever he can to save face in the end deal and talk about how great it is.

Craig Patrick should know this better than anyone else (Jagr). Or Howson can call your buddy Bryan Murray and ask him about how these deals go (Heatley). Or his old buddy Kevin Lowe (Pronger).

I've yet to see one of these where the player stays or the team trading them gets a king's ransom for a disgruntled player, but maybe I'm forgetting one and someone can remind me.

Howson should have never had his press conference hissy fit and exposed this thing for what it is. The fact that Patrick didn't tell him this makes me question how much help he's going to be in mentoring him.

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06-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Not hardly....

Being a Rangers fan I'm sure you're really hoping it turns out that way.

Nash will stay in Columbus before he gets dumped for your "garbage offered"

Fight on Howson....Real Value or Nash stays....
Would not shock me if cash for Nash was Howson. You keep saying on all the boards if the jackets don't get value they will keep him. What good does it do to keep your best player against his will and piss him off?

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06-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I don't think his value will get any higher regardless of what happens with Ryan, Parise, Suter, etc.

1. Detroit is one of the teams in discussion for Parise and Suter and I'd honestly have to take a break from paying attention to the team if this GM trades Nash to Detroit and hands a gun to them to repeatedly shoot us with. Detroit is finally looking vulnerable. We should not do anything to help them.

2. Pittsburgh is not a good fit. They'd be looking to trade away a defenseman like Martin, maybe they'd throw in a Tyler Kennedy, Dustin Jeffrey and/or Eric Tangradi in some combination, but I'm not sure that any of those guys have that great of an upside--Tangradi in particular has been a disappointment.

3. San Jose isn't going to give up Couture then any more than now. They've made their offer and we've rebuffed it for whatever reason. They aren't even in on Ryan and I'm not sure they could do the others without a separate move to make cap space. In other words, they have every reason to get a trade for Nash done with us now because their other options are less likely to pan out. And yet, we are still at a stalemate here.

4. Minnesota is rumored to be trying to get Parise and/or Suter. Which is odd in and of itself. To me, Minnesota is a team that needs to be rebuilding and even if they got both of those guys, they'd only just barely make the playoffs. Granlund and Coyle are interesting prospects, but there isn't much else there and you have to think they'd be unlikely to trade those guys as the whole point seems to be to supplement with UFAs rather than to trade away their young prospects.

5. I'd avoid trading Nash to Nashville for the same reason as Detroit. If they miss out on Suter, throw them an anchor, not a life preserver. Beyond that, do they have any forwards we actually would want?

6. The Leafs ship sailed as soon as they took the #5 pick, moreso when they traded away Schenn for JVR. They may take a run at Parise, but missing out on him will simply get Burke more focused on goaltending or a center.

7. Never say never with Lou Lamoriello, but this would seem to be a tough one. Henrique is about the only young forward in the Devil's system of interest. Their strength is, as always, on defense.

That leaves Sather and the Rangers. Of course, if he knows he's the only one left in the game because everyone else has either gone another direction or lacks the pieces necessary, then the price isn't any better then than now.
On a selfish note, I wouldn't mind as much if option #4 happened

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06-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #475
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Would not shock me if cash for Nash was Howson. You keep saying on all the boards if the jackets don't get value they will keep him. What good does it do to keep your best player against his will and piss him off?
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding what value is in regards to a trade for Rick Nash. Having said that, we can't give him away either. Howson is asking too much, other teams are probably low balling as well. However, if a couple of these rumors are true, then Howson has screwed himself over a couple of times in the way of greed.

While I don't agree that Ottawa rumor is "good", I think it's a good starting point and can be tweaked. Having said that, if the rumor is true, it's not bad either. My contention was how we thought it was "generous" as others have stated.

There is potential with the Rangers if Howson backs off some of his demands. He's trying to treat Nash like he's Gretzky. We probably could have had a deal done a while ago. One that the both team could live with. Instead Howson is hoping that a GM could lose his mind next week. It's possible, but I don't think to the level that Howson would like. I would rather have had a good deal done, then waiting on an outstanding deal that will probably never materialize. That way we understand what direction we need to go this FA period.

Frankly, this off season is shaping up to be quite disappointing to this point. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Howson has changed some of his past tendencies.

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