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Should the Wild Trade for Jordan Staal?

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Old
06-21-2012, 06:39 PM
  #51
GopherState
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
So is Jordan Staal just going to fight to become a free agent as soon as possible? Is his plan really to force a trade to Carolina?
Possibly. In fairness to Staal, I don't know why he would sign a 10-year deal with Pittsburgh. Not a shot at the Pens but what is his benefit being locked up long-term in an organization that odds are he's spending the majority of a decade-long contract being the 3rd-best center?

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06-21-2012, 07:00 PM
  #52
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Just all these "he wants to play with his brother" stuff is weird. All they ever talk about is how they enjoy beating up on each other. But who knows. Jared is in the Carolina organization. Maybe they all want to be in one spot eventually.

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06-21-2012, 07:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Just all these "he wants to play with his brother" stuff is weird. All they ever talk about is how they enjoy beating up on each other. But who knows. Jared is in the Carolina organization. Maybe they all want to be in one spot eventually.
I remember Jordan being quoted as wanting to play with his brothers some time in the past season, I'll see if I can find the quote.

Edit, all I'm finding is a lot of liberal fan interpretation of a McKenzie opinion quote from around the trade deadline:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob McKenzie
I wouldn’t be surprised if all three Staal brothers eventually want to play on same team. Eric, BTW, has four more years on his CAR deal.
So it looks like speculation on Bobby Mac's end, which is somewhat out of character for him. If he's speculating that, there's probably some underlying reason for it, but that reason isn't a verified quote from any of the brothers.


Last edited by squidz*: 06-21-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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06-21-2012, 08:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Because I needed to broaden the sample just to find some good players drafted around #7, and #6-10 is probably the best range of 5 to pick. As you go up in to the top-5, the chance of getting a good to great player increases exponentially. Once you get to about 5/6, it's quite flat from there on out. So #6-10 is just a good measure of approximate value of #7. #5-9, to put #7 as the median value, would start to skew the numbers in favor of #7. You could increase that to #6-15 or whatever if you wish. The chances won't change much (still low).


Well others brought up Brent Burns, so we can see how valuable just one year is.

Throw in a broader range if you would like. I didn't cut it at 10 because of Kopitar or Marc Staal (I'd rather have Jordan over Marc anyway). Take it to #6-15. The percentages are not going to change much. You're going to get about another 5 or 6 guys who are a little better than Jordan Staal or at least have an argument. In other words, still very low chances of picking a player around Jordan Staal's caliber.

Which brings us all the way back to #22 overall, which is where I believe Pittsburgh is picking. Since 2006, by crazy chance, #22 overall has already netted Jordan Eberle, Max Pacioretty, and Claude Giroux. That's not likely to keep repeating, but it goes to show the flatness of the talent curve in the first round outside the top-5 or so picks. There's not much difference between #7 and #22 except in perceived value. So that's why you take that perceived value to your advantage and use it on a proven commodity.
I guess I just don't see what the end game is. So we trade 2-3 good assets for 5 months of Jordan Staal, then flip him at the deadline for 2-3 lesser assets? Unless you feel like he is the missing piece of our Stanley Cup run this year (which I'm sure you don't, as don't I), I fail to realize how this puts us in a better position going forward.

The Burns deal is comparable only in that it's the type of package that it would take, but you also have to take the situations of the teams into consideration. We are not in the same position as SJ was last year.

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06-21-2012, 08:11 PM
  #55
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If the Wild were to trade for Staal, I would say any trade would be contingent of him signing a long term deal. No deal gets done with Staal, then the trade doesn't happen.

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06-21-2012, 08:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
To NYR: 7th overall + Seto
To MIN: Marc Staal

Since there's no way that Eric's coming out of Carolina until that contract's up (team like that can't trade a fan favorite for less than Crosby), we could pick up the other brother and pimp the 6 hour drive back home.


/please note, I'm not actually advocating this
Good. No, rats. No, good. Hmmmm. Like me some Mark Staal. I think I'd do that. He's on a great contract to boot, 3.97 mill until 2015.

BTW, if we wanted to get a Staal here on the cheap, how about Jared? He's floating out there for a song.

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06-21-2012, 08:32 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
If the Wild were to trade for Staal, I would say any trade would be contingent of him signing a long term deal. No deal gets done with Staal, then the trade doesn't happen.
This time a million, which I have said at least twice already.

But yeah, all we have to do is promise him at least the 2C position, and heck, tell him he can fight it out with Koivu for the 1C position. At the very least it makes them both competitive about it.

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06-21-2012, 08:33 PM
  #58
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I think its given he's got the 2C position.

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06-21-2012, 08:38 PM
  #59
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Wet dream:

Heater - Koivu - Parise
Lats - Staal - Granlund
Cullen - Brodz - Seto
Clutterbuck - Powe - Kassian

Suter - Gilbert
Scandella - Brodin
Spurgeon - I dont care

Harding
Hackett

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06-21-2012, 08:40 PM
  #60
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You misspelled Yakupov.

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06-21-2012, 08:41 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Wet dream:

Heater - Koivu - Parise
Lats - Staal - Granlund
Cullen - Brodz - Seto
Clutterbuck - Powe - Kassian

Suter - Gilbert
Scandella - Brodin
Spurgeon - I dont care

Harding
Hackett
I personally would try to get Granlund on a line with Parise.

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06-21-2012, 08:43 PM
  #62
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Meh. I think it looks pretty damn good as it is.

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06-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I personally would try to get Granlund on a line with Parise.
Heater - Koivu - Lats
Parise - Staal - Granlund

Hey whatever works.

Edit: actually... swap those lines. Parise - Staal - Granlund looks like legitimate #1 line material, and Heater - Koivu - Lats looks like it could be the most beastly #2 line in the league.

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06-21-2012, 08:48 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I personally would try to get Granlund on a line with Parise.
Fantasy roster, but regardless, I'd much rather see that setup than any way of getting Granlund on Parise's line.

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06-21-2012, 08:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I guess I just don't see what the end game is. So we trade 2-3 good assets for 5 months of Jordan Staal, then flip him at the deadline for 2-3 lesser assets? Unless you feel like he is the missing piece of our Stanley Cup run this year (which I'm sure you don't, as don't I), I fail to realize how this puts us in a better position going forward.
Your expected outcome is to trade for Staal and sign him to a long-term deal. But if he doesn't, you're not going to just lose him for nothing. So the worst-case scenario being mentioned isn't realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
If the Wild were to trade for Staal, I would say any trade would be contingent of him signing a long term deal. No deal gets done with Staal, then the trade doesn't happen.
Then you would have to throw in a lot more to make that deal. Probably one of your top prospects.

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06-21-2012, 08:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Your expected outcome is to trade for Staal and sign him to a long-term deal. But if he doesn't, you're not going to just lose him for nothing. So the worst-case scenario being mentioned isn't realistic.
The "not losing him for nothing" in this case is a 5th to 7th round pick, maybe (but extremely unlikely) you'd get a 3rd out of it. UFA rights aren't worth anything meaningful.

Staal's agent announced he will not sign an extension.

His "worst-case scenario" is better described as a "best-case scenario."

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06-21-2012, 09:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Your expected outcome is to trade for Staal and sign him to a long-term deal. But if he doesn't, you're not going to just lose him for nothing. So the worst-case scenario being mentioned isn't realistic.
I don't have confidence he'd sign a LT deal here. I'm not saying we'd lose him for nothing, but I doubt the package that we'd get back at the TD would be comparable to what we'd have to give up to get him this summer.

For example, we'd give up roster player, top prospect, 7th pick. At the TD, we'd probably get roster player, B prospect, worse pick. It doesn't seem like a logical move for 5 months of a guy who just touched 50 points. He ain't gonna come in a put up 85.

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06-21-2012, 09:05 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The "not losing him for nothing" in this case is a 5th to 7th round pick, maybe (but extremely unlikely) you'd get a 3rd out of it. UFA rights aren't worth anything meaningful.

Staal's agent announced he will not sign an extension.

His "worst-case scenario" is better described as a "best-case scenario."
You're forgetting about a possible trade during the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
It doesn't seem like a logical move for 5 months of a guy who just touched 50 points. He ain't gonna come in a put up 85.
85? No. But you do realize that he had a higher points per game ratio last year than ANY Wild player, right? He's respectable offensively.

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06-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
You're forgetting about a possible trade during the season.
That's exactly what I was talking about. Why downgrade in assets for 5 months of a 50 point player? It makes no sense.

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06-21-2012, 09:18 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
You're forgetting about a possible trade during the season.
As a deadline piece, he's worth maybe a very late first (in a draft a year after the one we'd give up making it equivalent to about a third round pick in 2012) plus a quality prospect (Kaberle type return). A 3rd + A prospect for a Roster Player + 1st + A prospect sounds like a fantastic deal.

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06-21-2012, 09:19 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
You're forgetting about a possible trade during the season.


85? No. But you do realize that he had a higher points per game ratio last year than ANY Wild player, right? He's respectable offensively.
And that's great, but it doesn't matter if he won't stick around. You have to look past next year. 10 years of Coyle and the 7th overall pick is likely to be waaaaaaaaaaay more valuable than 5 months of Jordan Staal. It just is.

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06-21-2012, 09:24 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
That's exactly what I was talking about. Why downgrade in assets for 5 months of a 50 point player? It makes no sense.
But that's not the goal! If you KNOW that will be the outcome, you don't make the deal. Simple as that.

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06-21-2012, 09:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
But that's not the goal! If you KNOW that will be the outcome, you don't make the deal. Simple as that.
So you're operating under the assumption of an extension then?

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06-21-2012, 09:47 PM
  #74
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So you're operating under the assumption of an extension then?
I'd be operating under the expectation of an extension.

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06-21-2012, 09:49 PM
  #75
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I'd be operating under the expectation of an extension.
Despite the fact that Staal's agent declared that Staal will not be signing an extension with anyone and will be going to free agency on 7/1/13.

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