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Leaf fans: Would you trade kadri for luongo? (Part 2)

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Old
10-04-2012, 12:02 PM
  #1
Lucbourdon
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Leaf fans: Would you trade kadri for luongo? (Part 2)

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1265971

Continue here.

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Old
10-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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Can't we just let this die already?

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10-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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I was kind of hoping we didn't start a new thread until the CBA is resolved.

I think we basically hit a dead end there.

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10-04-2012, 12:11 PM
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I still think what the Leafs or any other team gives up should be what the Rangers gave up for Rick Nash. However because Luongo is older and has a contract which is a lot worse, no team should have to include a 1st round pick. In fact because of Luongo's contract it's the Canucks who should give up their 1st round pick to what ever team taking it. So if Vancouver is a serious Stanley Cup contender they should give up between the 25th - 30th pick in the 1st round and not be a major loss for them.

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10-04-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I was kind of hoping we didn't start a new thread until the CBA is resolved.

I think we basically hit a dead end there.
I totally agree. The main issue (positive or negative depending on who you talk to) is Luongo's contract. The ramifications will only be known when the CBA is signed.

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10-04-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperJayMann View Post
Can't we just let this die already?
The Luongo trade rumor threads were once referenced in the Bhagavad Gita as an allegory for the great samsaric gyres of the universe.

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10-04-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I still think what the Leafs or any other team gives up should be what the Rangers gave up for Rick Nash. However because Luongo is older and has a contract which is a lot worse, no team should have to include a 1st round pick. In fact because of Luongo's contract it's the Canucks who should give up their 1st round pick for taking it. So if Vancouver is a serious Stanley Cup contender they should give up between the 25th - 30th pick in the 1st round and not be a major loss for them.
If we're using the Rick Nash comparison, Nash's cap hit is about 50% higher than Luongo, and Luongo's a better player. Age is a fair concern, but it's certainly not enough to giving a 1st for any package rather than getting one in a package.

Also, we're tryin to build a perennial contender, so I value futures quite highly still.

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10-04-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperJayMann View Post
Can't we just let this die already?
This! Was there a need for a second thread? Canuck fans already know the stance of Panther & Leaf fans.


However this needs to be posted again so people can get a grip of reality when it comes to Van spending oh so much on our fantastic tandem:

Quote:
Originally Posted by schism
This is what I find funny when people say Luongo is a cap dump and Vancouver can't have that much cap in goalies.

Lu+Schneider=9.33
Rinne+Mason=8.5
Lunqvist+Biron=8.175
Thomas and Rask=8.5
Backstrom and Harding=7.9
Price+Budaj=7.65
Fleury+Vokoun=7

These are all teams looking to compete either now or very soon who have a lot invested in goaltending and don't seem to see it as a problem (other than Thomas, who wouldn't need to be excluded if not for losing his marbles over the course of last season). Lu's "terrible contract" is exactly what gives us the cap flexibility to hold on to him instead of dump him for nothing.

We're spending the most, and obviously it's not the long-term plan to keep it that way.... but come on. A ~2 mil difference between our combo and Pittsburghs? Philly paid 7.4 last season and still had a nightmare in net. Meanwhile our tandem carried us through last spring to the presidents trophy when the rest of the team decided to hit the snooze button from Feb-April. That's a difference of Mason Raymond money for far superior performance and stability. If the cap forces us to shed salary we have several contracts that will be gone before we even need to look at Luongo.

We have zero need to rush this trade and give an elite goaltender away for scraps.

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10-04-2012, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If we're using the Rick Nash comparison, Nash's cap hit is about 50% higher than Luongo, and Luongo's a better player. Age is a fair concern, but it's certainly not enough to giving a 1st for any package rather than getting one in a package.

Also, we're tryin to build a perennial contender, so I value futures quite highly still.
But Nash's contract has 7 years left and I believe Luongo has 10 years left. Plus no one has said Nash's contract looks like cap circumvention compared to Luongo's contract and people have said in a new CBA any team with Luongo's deal might be forced to keep it on their books until it expires, even if he was to retire before it ended.

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10-04-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
But Nash's contract has 7 years left and I believe Luongo has 10 years left. Plus no one has said Nash's contract looks like cap circumvention compared to Luongo's contract and people have said in a new CBA any team with Luongo's deal might be forced to keep it on their books until it expires, even if he was to retire before it ended.
So we'll wait until the CBA is resolved before assessing his value.(although you'd probably be able to trade him to a cap floor team anyways).

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10-04-2012, 12:31 PM
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Let me guess, you will have no idea why the thread turned out the way it did this time either.

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10-04-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
This! Was there a need for a second thread? Canuck fans already know the stance of Panther & Leaf fans.


However this needs to be posted again so people can get a grip of reality when it comes to Van spending oh so much on our fantastic tandem:
2 differences...

1) luongo is the backup making 5+ million... In all of those other example you have a 6+ million starter and the backup is simply added on to make to total look like its more

2) luongo is signed until he's in his mid 40's unlike every other goalie listed there

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10-04-2012, 12:35 PM
  #13
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So we'll wait until the CBA is resolved before assessing his value.(although you'd probably be able to trade him to a cap floor team anyways).
No you couldn't because a cap floor team can't afford a player for another 10 years

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10-04-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
But Nash's contract has 7 years left and I believe Luongo has 10 years left. Plus no one has said Nash's contract looks like cap circumvention compared to Luongo's contract and people have said in a new CBA any team with Luongo's deal might be forced to keep it on their books until it expires, even if he was to retire before it ended.
This is not going to happen. They've already investigated Luongo's deal. They're not going to change how contracts signed pre-CBA play out. The only place I've even heard this concept is by HF posters in these Luongo threads. At best it's hearsay.

It's not a 10 year deal, it never was, Luongo has said as much himself. This has all been covered ad naseum in the 457 Luongo threads.

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10-04-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
2 differences...

1) luongo is the backup making 5+ million... In all of those other example you have a 6+ million starter and the backup is simply added on to make to total look like its more

2) luongo is signed until he's in his mid 40's unlike every other goalie listed there
1) I wouldn't call either Schneider or Luongo a backup. They'll vie for the number one spot thrughout the season.

2) We don't care about his contract length, that's not why we're trading him.

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10-04-2012, 12:39 PM
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No you couldn't because a cap floor team can't afford a player for another 10 years
I said if you did trade for him, after 6 years when his play may be more suited to a backup role, you could trade him to a team like the Islanders or Panthers so they can reach the cap floor while barely paying any salary.

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10-04-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is not going to happen. They've already investigated Luongo's deal. They're not going to change how contracts signed pre-CBA play out. The only place I've even heard this concept is by HF posters in these Luongo threads. At best it's hearsay.

It's not a 10 year deal, it never was, Luongo has said as much himself. This has all been covered ad naseum in the 457 Luongo threads.
Luongo signed his name to a 12 year contract, he should know how long there is left in it.

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10-04-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
2 differences...

1) luongo is the backup making 5+ million... In all of those other example you have a 6+ million starter and the backup is simply added on to make to total look like its more

2) luongo is signed until he's in his mid 40's unlike every other goalie listed there
1) So what?

2) Again, as covered multiple times in these threads, his contract was cap circumvention and he never intended on finishing it. He's said so himself.

Would really help what's left of this 'discussion' if people brushed up on previous threads. Frustrating to come to these threads and see the same arguments that have long been put to bed.

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10-04-2012, 12:41 PM
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1) I wouldn't call either Schneider or Luongo a backup. They'll vie for the number one spot thrughout the season.

2) We don't care about his contract length, that's not why we're trading him.
The answer to both is essentially the same... He wants out. Your coach has publicly stated he wants out. Going into the season with luongo as the obvious backup considering he didn't play in the final 3 playoff games and paying him that much in actual salary plus 5+ million for a contender is suicide.

You need to move him despite the posturing, and Toronto is essentially the only team that can take him. His contract does matter.

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10-04-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
1) So what?

2) Again, as covered multiple times in these threads, his contract was cap circumvention and he never intended on finishing it. He's said so himself.

Would really help what's left of this 'discussion' if people brushed up on previous threads. Frustrating to come to these threads and see the same arguments that have long been put to bed.
1) ... It's pretty self explanatory

2) no hr hasn't said that because the league wouldn't allow it. No team is going to acquire him and simply assume he's not going to take the extra few million he can earn in those last years

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10-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #21
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Luongo signed his name to a 12 year contract, he should know how long there is left in it.
And...?

I'm not going to bother looking it up on my phone, but to paraphrase he said something like: 'I don't have many playing years left, despite my contract.'

From the horse's mouth people.

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10-04-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
2 differences...

1) luongo is the backup making 5+ million... In all of those other example you have a 6+ million starter and the backup is simply added on to make to total look like its more

2) luongo is signed until he's in his mid 40's unlike every other goalie listed there
When people use the term "backup" it's really just an attempt to devalue him on the boards here. I'm sure GM's are smart enough to realize Luongo isn't just a mere "backup" and in reality Luongo-Schneider would be more of a timeshare with a 50/50 split. Hell, I think Luongo would actually get a couple more starts than Schneider too.

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10-04-2012, 12:46 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
When people use the term "backup" it's really just an attempt to devalue him on the boards here. I'm sure GM's are smart enough to realize Luongo isn't just a mere "backup" and in reality Luongo-Schneider would be more of a timeshare with a 50/50 split. Hell, I think Luongo would actually get a couple more starts than Schneider too.
It's not though... Luongo is a good goalie. He isn't going to be happy playing 40 games a year... Especially at his age. That's why he asked for a trade.

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10-04-2012, 12:50 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
And...?

I'm not going to bother looking it up on my phone, but to paraphrase he said something like: 'I don't have many playing years left, despite my contract.'

From the horse's mouth people.
Seem to remember that but regardless Luongo signed on for 10 more seasons and because the league doesn't want players running around telling the world that they were involved in cap circumvention they will make sure that that doesn't happen.

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10-04-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Would really help what's left of this 'discussion' if people brushed up on previous threads. Frustrating to come to these threads and see the same arguments that have long been put to bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
The answer to both is essentially the same... He wants out. Your coach has publicly stated he wants out. Going into the season with luongo as the obvious backup considering he didn't play in the final 3 playoff games and paying him that much in actual salary plus 5+ million for a contender is suicide.

You need to move him despite the posturing, and Toronto is essentially the only team that can take him. His contract does matter.
Prime example.

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