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Old
06-24-2012, 10:37 PM
  #51
SugarKane88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndgt10 View Post
3-6 D and goaltending duo possibly the worst in NHL.
They aren't good but they're nowhere near the worst.

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06-25-2012, 05:18 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Not a chance in hell.
Doughty, Scuderi, Greene, Mitchell, Voynov & Martinez looks that much better?


Before the POs, you would have said the same about them.


Salvador, Zidlicky, Fayne, Volchenkov, Greene & Harrold
those were the Devils D for the POs.


Tell me that they are better than what we have

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06-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Doughty, Scuderi, Greene, Mitchell, Voynov & Martinez looks that much better?


Before the POs, you would have said the same about them.


Salvador, Zidlicky, Fayne, Volchenkov, Greene & Harrold
those were the Devils D for the POs.


Tell me that they are better than what we have
Yes I would have, the bolded people are much better then anything the Hawks have at 3-6 on the back end.

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06-25-2012, 03:52 PM
  #54
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you can subtract two for both players because they would behind Keith & Seabrook on the Hawks, but still are those teams #1 & #2 D

Fayne, Salvador & Greene are not better than what we have, our #6 is better than their #6s are.
Our top Pairing is better than those teams top pairings are.


Our D is fine and good enough to win the Cup. Coaching and team D killed the Hawks last year combined with pathatic goaltending

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06-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
you can subtract two for both players because they would behind Keith & Seabrook on the Hawks, but still are those teams #1 & #2 D

Fayne, Salvador & Greene are not better than what we have, our #6 is better than their #6s are.
Our top Pairing is better than those teams top pairings are.


Our D is fine and good enough to win the Cup. Coaching and team D killed the Hawks last year combined with pathatic goaltending
Our top pairing is the only pairing that's better, if your suggesting that Oduya Leddy is a better pairing then Mitchell Greene your out of your mind.

Our last 4 is small, weak, horrible in our own end, and has 0 real skills to offer.

Their last 4's are either better offensively or defensively then our last 4.

Our D isn't good enough to win anything, a true #1 will only be able to do so much with Oduya, Leddy, Hammer, Montador getting dominated physically in front of him and them allowing forwards to park in front of the net all game long. Refusing to block shots and allowing everything to get through, they do more harm for our goalie then good.

This isn't a video game, a bunch of small "puck moving" Dmen dont win jack, worst of all those "puck moving" Dmen only move the puck to the other team.

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06-25-2012, 05:51 PM
  #56
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oduya is not a PMD, he's just so ineffective at d that people feel obligated to call him a PMD or else why is he playing?

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06-25-2012, 05:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
oduya is not a PMD, he's just so ineffective at d that people feel obligated to call him a PMD or else why is he playing?
TRUTH!

He is a space taker.

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06-26-2012, 04:52 AM
  #58
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Kings haven't won because of the defense... best goalie right now with great Center depth. Something every Cup winner has had. good team overall, great goalie and great Center depth.

No wonder Bowman has drafted 5 goalies and 4 Cs (in the 1st Round) in his 3 drafts.

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06-26-2012, 06:11 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Kings haven't won because of the defense... best goalie right now with great Center depth. Something every Cup winner has had. good team overall, great goalie and great Center depth.

No wonder Bowman has drafted 5 goalies and 4 Cs (in the 1st Round) in his 3 drafts.
Really Niemi, Fleury, Gigučre and Barrasso (to name a few) where all great goalies.


Plus it take an entire team, you have to have everything to win a Cup.


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Old
06-26-2012, 07:20 AM
  #60
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Kings absolutely won the Cup partially due to playing fantastic defense. Yes, Quick was good, but the real star was their defensive play from #1-6: allowing only tough angle shots, protecting Quick in the crease, clearing the puck off the boards and punishing opposing players on the backcheck.

They played a game that needed Quick to be only good, not great (though he was great throughout the playoffs) whereas the Hawks D played this year in a way that required Crawford to be great.

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06-26-2012, 09:21 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Kings absolutely won the Cup partially due to playing fantastic defense. Yes, Quick was good, but the real star was their defensive play from #1-6: allowing only tough angle shots, protecting Quick in the crease, clearing the puck off the boards and punishing opposing players on the backcheck.

They played a game that needed Quick to be only good, not great (though he was great throughout the playoffs) whereas the Hawks D played this year in a way that required Crawford to be great.

Yep. Crawford is not a favourite of mine, but even the best goalies in the league would have their hands full playing here. Hawks defence cannot continue to let opps have their own way in our end. And the team needs to be much better at covering the point. Our defensive system needs to be grittier.
I’d love to have Suter but I think more realistic would be to shop for a solid and physical 5th or 6th dman, at a fraction of the cost. With the money saved, perhaps a goalie could be acquired.... and a grinding bottom 6 guy as well.

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06-26-2012, 09:31 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
oduya is not a PMD, he's just so ineffective at d that people feel obligated to call him a PMD or else why is he playing?
Careful...there are some real hardcore defenders of the Oduya signing. Thinking it was a good signing and all. They must not have watched the last 15 games of the season and the playoffs. We could have done as bad in FA in regards to skill. There was no need to sign this guy.

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06-26-2012, 09:51 AM
  #63
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Having Kopitar, Richards and Stoll as you 1-3 Centers is something not many teams have. Quick was outstanding and their D did the job they needed to do.

looking at it on paper, the D does not look better than what we have 1-6

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06-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Having Kopitar, Richards and Stoll as you 1-3 Centers is something not many teams have. Quick was outstanding and their D did the job they needed to do.

looking at it on paper, the D does not look better than what we have 1-6
Yes it does.

Mitchell and Greene are better then any of our bottom 6.

The Hawks have two huge issue on the back end, 1. not a true #3, what is exactly what Mitchell is. 2. No physicality and size other then Seabrook, Greene is just that.
If the Hawks traded Oduya and Montador for Mitchell and Greene, then the Hawks defense just got twice as good.

Bowman got too many similar D-men and worst of all seems to not realize his mistake.

To have a great pairing you need to have players who can work off each other and who strengths can complement their partners weakness. It's why Seabrooke and Keith are such a great pairing, Keith is fast, smart, uses his skill to defend, is great with the puck. Seabrooke is strong, physical, tough, great in his own zone and has a hammer of a shot. When you combine them you have a the perfect hockey player.

Now take Leddy and Oduya, neither is strong, neither is tough, neither is great in their own zone, neither battles in front of the net, blocks shots. Combined you have a weak, bad defensively, non shot blocking D men, who is a good skater and decent puck mover.

Montador is the same player, Hammer at least with play physically and block shots but lacks the strength and toughness.

The Hawks NEED! some strength, toughness, size, defensive mentality on the back end. As constituded, the Hawks will continue to struggle in the playoffs as teams will just out muscle them in their own end all series long.

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06-26-2012, 01:13 PM
  #65
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you compare our #5 and #6 to LAs #3 and #4

well done

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06-26-2012, 01:20 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
you compare our #5 and #6 to LAs #3 and #4

well done
That's because Leddy and Oduya where our 2nd pairing during the play-offs, and who are our #3 and #4, Hammer and Montador, no real difference, Mitchell and Greene are still much better.

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06-26-2012, 01:23 PM
  #67
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Hawks Bottom 4 is not worse than any other teams bottom 4.

Hawks D is as good as anybodys D in the NHL.
On Paper, we don't have to worry.

Coaching and Team D has to get better.

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06-26-2012, 01:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Hawks Bottom 4 is not worse than any other teams bottom 4.

Hawks D is as good as anybodys D in the NHL.
On Paper, we don't have to worry.

Coaching and Team D has to get better.
What paper?

Great on some magical piece of paper the Hawks D is great. Well this is real life not paper.

The Hawks D is not as talented and weak.

If the Hawks played the Kings and we send Oduya and Leddy against the Richards, Penner, Carter line they would have eaten them for breakfast.

Not Jonathan Quick, Henrik Lundqivst or Pekka Rinne wins the Cup with this team as is. Not with our D allowing every shot from the point to get through and allowing every forward to camp out in front of the net.

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06-26-2012, 04:38 PM
  #69
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I would say the Hawks D may even have more talent than the Kings but talent is not the issue. It's that our "talent" refuses to play along the boards, clear the crease, and hit people. We have smart defenders but ultimately not tough ones that will protect our net and clear the puck out. Our defense thinks offense first, not defense, a huge problem imo.

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06-26-2012, 05:10 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I would say the Hawks D may even have more talent than the Kings but talent is not the issue. It's that our "talent" refuses to play along the boards, clear the crease, and hit people. We have smart defenders but ultimately not tough ones that will protect our net and clear the puck out. Our defense thinks offense first, not defense, a huge problem imo.
Exactly!

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06-27-2012, 05:26 AM
  #71
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but saying our D isn't good enough to win the Cup but Kings D is is just stupid. Before last season, nobody would have taken the Kings D over ours and still not more than 50% would do it

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06-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #72
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Well I did, I thought the Kings would be a top 3 team in the West this year. They had a rocky regular season but I loved the D that they'd brought in. The question was Doughty and if he'd play to his potential and he did.

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06-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I would say the Hawks D may even have more talent than the Kings but talent is not the issue. It's that our "talent" refuses to play along the boards, clear the crease, and hit people. We have smart defenders but ultimately not tough ones that will protect our net and clear the puck out. Our defense thinks offense first, not defense, a huge problem imo.
Our defense thinks "take the puck" instead of "take the man off the puck", and that is how they get dominated in their own end.

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06-27-2012, 02:05 PM
  #74
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Well I did, I thought the Kings would be a top 3 team in the West this year. They had a rocky regular season but I loved the D that they'd brought in. The question was Doughty and if he'd play to his potential and he did.
I did that too, but I think the Hawks D is good enough to win the cup. It's the system, not the players

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06-27-2012, 02:22 PM
  #75
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but saying our D isn't good enough to win the Cup but Kings D is is just stupid. Before last season, nobody would have taken the Kings D over ours and still not more than 50% would do it
I don't care what other people think. Clearly the Kings defense was good enough to win the Cup so everyone who thought it wasn't doesn't know anything.

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