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The Offseason Thread Part IX: Howson often gives nuts to toothless people

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Old
06-23-2012, 10:52 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
Thornton - not elite
Thornton has almost 1100 points in his career, has been over 100 point twice hitting 125 in his Hart season in 2005/06. That qualifies him as an elite forward and one of the best set up guys that's played in this league.

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06-23-2012, 10:57 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Thornton has almost 1100 points in his career, has been over 100 point twice hitting 125 in his Hart season in 2005/06. That qualifies him as an elite forward and one of the best set up guys that's played in this league.
I don't know that you can consider him "elite" today. And he was certainly an elite playmaker, but he only scored 30 goals twice in his career.

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06-23-2012, 10:59 PM
  #703
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I don't know that you can consider him "elite" today. And he was certainly an elite playmaker, but he only scored 30 goals twice in his career.
You don't have to score goals to be "elite". You said it yourself elite playmaker.

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06-23-2012, 11:05 PM
  #704
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I agree. We need to make a smart move quick.
Why do they need to hurry? The season starts in 4 months...and how can say you agree when you deem it necessary to rush the move, for whatever reason? BroadwayBlue preaced patience.

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06-23-2012, 11:06 PM
  #705
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Why do they need to hurry? The season starts in 4 months...and how can say you agree when you deem it necessary to rush the move, for whatever reason? BroadwayBlue preaced patience.
Bc the trade targets could be gone that quick

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06-23-2012, 11:09 PM
  #706
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Philly and Pitt have made moves...but they aren't really any better than they were. Not significantly so anyway.
This.

Schenn is extremely overrated. He's been solid but has not shown he can reach his potential. He'd be 5th on our depth chart behind McD, Girardi, Staal, and MDZ. Philly lost the trade, IMO. JVR is the better player.

As for Pitts, they lost their shutdown center but picked up Sutter who is on the rise but still a downgrade from Staal. Essentially, all they did was shift salary around while gaining a few assets. Oh, and they shed some weight from their defense in Michalek. Considering the Pens need help on defense, I could see them going after Suter over Parise.

I'm not worried. I'm fully confident that a move will be made to bring in a top 3 guy whether it be through FA (Parise?) or trade (Nash, Ryan). Hell, there could even be a player on the block we've never even considered and the trade will seem like it comes out of left field. If the season starts and we haven't improved the club, then I'll be worried.

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06-23-2012, 11:10 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Bc the trade targets could be gone that quick
If it isnt the right move, it isnt the right move. If it means other teams trade for these players, oh well. Free agency.

Who's to say the Rangers arent "hurrying" anyway?

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06-23-2012, 11:12 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Calle62 View Post
Why do they need to hurry? The season starts in 4 months...and how can say you agree when you deem it necessary to rush the move, for whatever reason? BroadwayBlue preaced patience.
Seriously.

People want Slats to make a move for the sake of making a move. Make the right deal for the right price, please.

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06-23-2012, 11:15 PM
  #709
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pitts moving staal took a ton of depth off of that team. he was a serious threat on the third line. can't even count how many he scored/assisted off of us/lundqvist had to make out of this world saves against.

schenn for jvr was an awfullll trade imo... maybe just making some cap space to try stealing another D, but still got the short end in terms of talent. bob was a pretty big loss with bryzgalov's inconsistency especially considering the mediocore return.

if pitts gets parise then i will be legitimately scared, but right now everything is zen.

we could really still use a top 6 forward, but i'm happy the way things look right now-- especially if mikey sauer is improving as much as it sounds.

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06-23-2012, 11:18 PM
  #710
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Let other teams overpay for Ryan or Nash. We'll be waiting for teams to move away from them and get their needs another way. Asking price comes down and we get the guy that we wanted all along.

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06-23-2012, 11:21 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by beastly115 View Post
Seriously.

People want Slats to make a move for the sake of making a move. Make the right deal for the right price, please.
Patience will hopefully prove to be a virtue for the Rangers in this situation.

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06-23-2012, 11:21 PM
  #712
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Some Nash thoughts: Mu analysis.

1) HOwson is less interested in round late draft choices than prospects.

2)Nash will be traded shortly after Parise and or Bobby Ryan sign. At that point Howson believes he will have the best offers he can muster for an elite player with a poor contract. This will be his last best chance to move his star and I'm guessing he will accept the best offer he receives.

3)If CBJ was looking to get rid of Howson would they allow him to make deals that will begin the rebuilding process?

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06-23-2012, 11:28 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I don't get it, since kovalchuk went to new jersey he hasn't been elite but people talk about him like he is. He was elite in Atlanta, since coming to jersey he has not been elite. People act like parise is some sort of scrub. Despite the cap hit, every other team would love to have him including the Rangers.
This was the best season of Kovalchuk's career. Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Giroux, Stamkos and maybe Ovechkin are the only forwards in this league with more value than Kovalchuk. 2010-11 was the only "bad" season of Kovalchuk's career, and it was his first full season on a new team - a team that had an abysmal start to their season, dealt with a mid-season coaching change, featured a new coach that demanded Kovalchuk play a completely different style of hockey than he'd ever played before, and ended up being the hottest team in the league for the last half of the season - and he still scored 30 goals and racked up 67 points.

I spent this entire playoffs defending Gaborik against the mountains of ******** that Ranger fans here piled on him, but there is no comparison between Kovalchuk and Gaborik. Kovalchuk is big, strong, fast, and can beat you any number of ways from anywhere in the offensive zone. Very, very few players can stop Kovalchuk consistently in one on one situations. Gaborik is a smallish, weak, fragile, injury-prone, one-dimensional player who can beat you in very few ways and in very few situations. He's MUCH easier to contain than Kovalchuk.

For all his limitations, Gaborik has had a marvelous career. He's a very nice player. There are hardly any limitations for Kovalchuk. He's one of the greatest goalscorers in NHL history, and to try and denigrate him because his numbers went down when, for the first time in his career, he played for a competitive team that asked him to alter his style of play for the betterment of the team is senseless.

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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
A great goal scorer who does everything the Rangers do and would help the PP doesn't fit the needs? I understand people might not want to pay what it would take, but he absolutely fits this teams needs
Exactly. He does everything the Rangers do, and even if he does those things better, he doesn't give the Rangers the things they don't do, the things they need to do going forward. The Rangers need size, skill, and scoring, and they really need to get one player who brings all three of those qualities. Parise doesn't.

Parise is one of my favorite players in the league. He's awesome, but the Rangers would be making a mistake signing him, and not only because of the very real fears that he will break down early due to his size and playing style.

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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Enough with the Kovalchuk garbage. He wasnt signing here. New Jersey had to break the rules to keep him.
He wanted to, and if the Rangers hadn't signed Gaborik, he probably would have. It was a serious misstep, and it will hurt the Rangers for a while. A lot of the issues facing the team right now could have been avoided had they dealt with that cap space differently.

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06-23-2012, 11:47 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Some Nash thoughts: Mu analysis.

1) HOwson is less interested in round late draft choices than prospects.

2)Nash will be traded shortly after Parise and or Bobby Ryan sign. At that point Howson believes he will have the best offers he can muster for an elite player with a poor contract. This will be his last best chance to move his star and I'm guessing he will accept the best offer he receives.

3)If CBJ was looking to get rid of Howson would they allow him to make deals that will begin the rebuilding process?
Ryan isn't a free agent

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06-23-2012, 11:57 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Buffalo has a lot of centers. Maybe we can trade dz to then for one and flip for Ryan? Only prob is they also r talking about Ryan
I have no interest in 90% of the Sabres forwards. They're all soft, small guys. And their d-corps is not much better. Myers isn't anywhere near his calder form, becoming a healthy scratch quite a few times.

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06-23-2012, 11:59 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
I have no interest in 90% of the Sabres forwards. They're all soft, small guys. And their d-corps is not much better. Myers isn't anywhere near his calder form, becoming a healthy scratch quite a few times.
I'd enjoy me some Vanek possibly.

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06-24-2012, 12:03 AM
  #717
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I have no interest in 90% of the Sabres forwards. They're all soft, small guys. And their d-corps is not much better. Myers isn't anywhere near his calder form, becoming a healthy scratch quite a few times.
Grigorenko isn't soft and small.

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06-24-2012, 12:05 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
I swear if Pitt gets one of Parise or Suter, and the Flyers get Ryan and Schenn, we are absolutely screwed. I think then we do something stupid and get Nash for an overpayment and at that point he won't even help.

The only thing we have working for us that JVR being sent to TOR was a huge chip that could have went to ANA. They don't want to deal Schenn and Couts is off the table basically so other then that they really don't have much else.
Ducks fans want Couts like they want Stepan from us. It's a no go from both teams.

However, Ducks fans are not ducks management. They will not accept anything below 2-3 players that are 80-90% of Ryan's calibre and then that might work. They want a center who is already putting up top 6 numbers and has the potential to reach Ryan numbers. And 2-3 other pieces to make up for the fact that they "might not make it"

Slats won't trade Stepan. I want Ryan because I really think he still has untapped potential, but if we get him, I don't think it will be at an overpayment. Then again, who knows. Maybe we'll trade for Roy for scraps like Ribeiro got traded for and trade Stepan.

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06-24-2012, 12:10 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Ducks fans want Couts like they want Stepan from us. It's a no go from both teams.

However, Ducks fans are not ducks management. They will not accept anything below 2-3 players that are 80-90% of Ryan's calibre and then that might work. They want a center who is already putting up top 6 numbers and has the potential to reach Ryan numbers. And 2-3 other pieces to make up for the fact that they "might not make it"

Slats won't trade Stepan. I want Ryan because I really think he still has untapped potential, but if we get him, I don't think it will be at an overpayment. Then again, who knows. Maybe we'll trade for Roy for scraps like Ribeiro got traded for and trade Stepan.
Things have changed since the trading deadline.

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06-24-2012, 12:11 AM
  #720
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I'd enjoy me some Vanek possibly.
Not for that cap hit. I'd rather have Nash at 7.8. For all this talk about Nash being a 30-30 player, Vanek's done even worse lately and he doesn't play a Rangers style. He doesn't forecheck well, he waits for Pominville to get him the puck.

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06-24-2012, 12:11 AM
  #721
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Things have changed since the trading deadline.
Yes, but we still don't have someone who can step in as our #2 center.

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06-24-2012, 12:12 AM
  #722
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Not for that cap hit. I'd rather have Nash at 7.8. For all this talk about Nash being a 30-30 player, Vanek's done even worse lately and he doesn't play a Rangers style. He doesn't forecheck well, he waits for Pominville to get him the puck.
Hence why I said possibly, I mean if we somehow wound up with Vanek I wouldn't be livid.

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06-24-2012, 12:12 AM
  #723
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Ducks fans want Couts like they want Stepan from us. It's a no go from both teams.

However, Ducks fans are not ducks management. They will not accept anything below 2-3 players that are 80-90% of Ryan's calibre and then that might work. They want a center who is already putting up top 6 numbers and has the potential to reach Ryan numbers. And 2-3 other pieces to make up for the fact that they "might not make it"

Slats won't trade Stepan. I want Ryan because I really think he still has untapped potential, but if we get him, I don't think it will be at an overpayment. Then again, who knows. Maybe we'll trade for Roy for scraps like Ribeiro got traded for and trade Stepan.
that was my thinking. Acquire a potential 2nd line c and package him w dz for Ryan

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06-24-2012, 12:16 AM
  #724
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Not for that cap hit. I'd rather have Nash at 7.8. For all this talk about Nash being a 30-30 player, Vanek's done even worse lately and he doesn't play a Rangers style. He doesn't forecheck well, he waits for Pominville to get him the puck.
Vanek has 2 years left, though. Nash has, what, 6?

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06-24-2012, 12:16 AM
  #725
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Yes, but we still don't have someone who can step in as our #2 center.
I would not be opposed to having AA center the 2nd line if it means we get Ryan. Steps really struggles with faceoffs anyway.

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