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Ryan hopes to be traded to Flyers

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07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
  #576
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When we went after Lindros, we gave up a ton for him. I'm hoping we get Bobby or Rick, but not at the cost of tearing up the team again. just imo

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07-03-2012, 10:31 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by 3Fs View Post
When we went after Lindros, we gave up a ton for him. I'm hoping we get Bobby or Rick, but not at the cost of tearing up the team again. just imo
Lol Lindros is another breed over Ryan.

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07-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #578
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I don't understand Ducks fans, to be honest.

There's been a strong, positive reaction to a proposal from Ottawa fans of Zibanejad, Greening, Weiroch, etc.--but derision of Voracek + Read + Gus / MAB, etc.

I get that Zibanejad might develop into a 2C center--but he's a ways off from that. I don't see how his value can be substantially higher than Voracek, and I have no clue how Greening is more appealing than Read.

Shiny new toy syndrome?
The greatest thing about that thread is that common sense is just ignored and they still make trade proposals from fantasy land.

How many times does it have to be stated that MIKE RICHARDS>BOBBY RYAN. RYAN will not get more than Richards, the Ducks fans will be so disappointed with the return. Zibanejad, Greening, Wieroich, and 1st is absolutely a steal for the ducks....

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07-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
From a Ducks perspective, that's fine and dandy. Ryan isn't being dangled for ***** and giggles, he's being dangled so some team with a big ego can overpay. If they don't get exactly what they want, they'll simply keep him and try and smooth things over. This summer is probably it as far as Ryan trade talks go. If he isn't dealt now, they probably take him off the table completely to make amends.
So, either you get what you want in a deal, or you're going to be sitting in your own ****? That's pretty much what I read up there.


"Make sure you give us exactly what we want, because if you don't, we'll keep Ryan and sit in our on **** to boot!"

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07-03-2012, 10:42 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Lol Lindros is another breed over Ryan.
May be true, but again as I said. I do not want to see us tear up the team again.

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07-03-2012, 10:46 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
So, either you get what you want in a deal, or you're going to be sitting in your own ****? That's pretty much what I read up there.


"Make sure you give us exactly what we want, because if you don't, we'll keep Ryan and sit in our on **** to boot!"
Uhh, I think he said that if they don't get what they want they will try and rectify the situation with Ryan and make him feel more at home or whatever the issue is.

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07-03-2012, 10:50 AM
  #582
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May be true, but again as I said. I do not want to see us tear up the team again.
It won't tear this team apart. I still stand by my statement that Ryan will not get two roster players. a prospect, and a pick. It will be one roster player, prospect, and a pick. If they are not happy with those offers, they have a disgruntled player on their hands.

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07-03-2012, 12:49 PM
  #583
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with the addition of Syvret back in the AHL/1st callup...adds to the ability to let Gus go in a trade for Ryan

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07-03-2012, 05:30 PM
  #584
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Pannachio was on WIP today and said Homer thought he had a deal with ANA for Booby Ryan at the draft last weekend but Ana kept trying to get more and more. Said Homer was fuming.

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07-03-2012, 05:40 PM
  #585
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Pannachio was on WIP today and said Homer thought he had a deal with ANA for Booby Ryan at the draft last weekend but Ana kept trying to get more and more. Said Homer was fuming.
Eskin said this before two.

It is interesting, I think, because it implies that the deal wouldn't have included Schenn or Couturier--since I doubt the two clubs would have had issues finding common ground once one of them was in the package.

I wish we has a sense of what the package looked like--but I'm also sure Anaheim's needs have changed a bit since. Someone like Mezsaros might have been useful after they dealt Visnovsky, but now, I doubt it.

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07-03-2012, 06:01 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I don't understand Ducks fans, to be honest.

There's been a strong, positive reaction to a proposal from Ottawa fans of Zibanejad, Greening, Weiroch, etc.--but derision of Voracek + Read + Gus / MAB, etc.

I get that Zibanejad might develop into a 2C center--but he's a ways off from that. I don't see how his value can be substantially higher than Voracek, and I have no clue how Greening is more appealing than Read.

Shiny new toy syndrome?
Well, that's simple. We've been pushed around with a small, wuss team for the past couple of years and we're looking to change that this off-season. As great of a bargain as Read is and as high potential as Voracek has, they don't fix that issue for us. And we end up losing size in the deal.

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07-03-2012, 06:04 PM
  #587
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Well, that's simple. We've been pushed around with small, wuss team for the past couple of years and we're looking to change that this off-season. As great of a bargain as Read is and as high potential as Voracek has, they don't fix that issue for us. And we end up losing size in the deal.
I hear you about Read, but I think you should look again at Voracek. The dude isn't a monster physically or anything, but he uses his size extremely well and protects the puck as good as any of them. Combine that with his playmaking and passing and he is very lethal. The main issue with him right now is that he lacks finish... that said, I think he is an excellent player and I look forward to him playing for us in the future.

Trading Voracek for Ryan would be really tough for me. I think I'd do it, but only because Ryan is a local guy. Voracek is going to be great in this league.... hes only 22...

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07-03-2012, 06:06 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Well, that's simple. We've been pushed around with a small, wuss team for the past couple of years and we're looking to change that this off-season. As great of a bargain as Read is and as high potential as Voracek has, they don't fix that issue for us. And we end up losing size in the deal.
Voracek is 6'2" 214lbs.

Mez is 6'2" 223lbs.

MAB is 6' 206lbs.

Ryan is 6'2" 209lbs.

Just listing some things off people have been using as trade bait for Ryan and they certainly don't lack size.

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07-03-2012, 06:08 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Well, that's simple. We've been pushed around with a small, wuss team for the past couple of years and we're looking to change that this off-season. As great of a bargain as Read is and as high potential as Voracek has, they don't fix that issue for us. And we end up losing size in the deal.
Yeah, one of the other posters made a similar point in the Trade Forum thread, and that makes sense.

On the other hand, and to play Devil's advocate, don't you lose a significant amount of scoring a Zibanejad-Greening deal for Ryan? You definitely lose a physical presence, but Voracek (6'1-6'2, 205) is not much smaller than Ryan, and is actually the same size as Greening (6'2, 205).

Anyway, the key seems to be that Zibanejad fits the need for a long-term 2C, one that Flyers can't match without including Schenn or Couturier.

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07-03-2012, 06:23 PM
  #590
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If Ottawa are willing to offer that, then they can have him.

The flyers have made their pitch. If the ducks keep dicking around with Holmgren he's going somewhere else. He's not afraid of making moves.

You certainly don't do yourself any favours when you keep moving the goalposts in a trade. If you agree a deal, then do it.

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07-03-2012, 06:26 PM
  #591
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Homer better not give into the demands and give Schenn up for him. Christ they just traded for his brother, I really don't think he will be shipped out. If that report is true though about us stepping up the offer, I wonder what it could be? Maybe the Flyers are low balling Anaheim.

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07-03-2012, 06:27 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
If Ottawa are willing to offer that, then they can have him.

The flyers have made their pitch. If the ducks keep dicking around with Holmgren he's going somewhere else. He's not afraid of making moves.

You certainly don't do yourself any favours when you keep moving the goalposts in a trade. If you agree a deal, then do it.
I'm still a bit skeptical on that whole thing--but Holmgren did look might pissed off right around the #15th or so pick in Round 1. I assumed he was trying to move up, but I wonder if the 20th overall wasn't included in the package he thought was going to Anaheim.

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07-03-2012, 06:29 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Homer better not give into the demands and give Schenn up for him. Christ they just traded for his brother, I really don't think he will be shipped out. If that report is true though about us stepping up the offer, I wonder what it could be? Maybe the Flyers are low balling Anaheim.
My prediction: if one Schenn goes, they both go, and the Flyers get something substantial back in addition to Ryan. I really can't imagine them dealing Brayden at this point, but who knows...

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07-03-2012, 06:31 PM
  #594
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with the addition of Syvret back in the AHL/1st callup...adds to the ability to let Gus go in a trade for Ryan
Syvret has to go through waivers (where I guess most of the time he will pass) Gus doesnt which is a good asset to have.

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07-03-2012, 06:34 PM
  #595
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My prediction: if one Schenn goes, they both go, and the Flyers get something substantial back in addition to Ryan. I really can't imagine them dealing Brayden at this point, but who knows...
Yea if we package the Schenn brothers it better be to Nashville. I don't want Ryan at the expense of the Schenns. Homer does make pretty good traded though, and it seems like he is holding the Schenns close, he won't let them or Couturier go. People have reported that Homer is a no ******** GM too, he says what he wants and is willing to move quickly so there is no meeting in the middle. That always gives me some confidence that Schenn is not going, because Ducks would accept a deal around Schenn I would think quickly.

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07-03-2012, 06:49 PM
  #596
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I hear you about Read, but I think you should look again at Voracek. The dude isn't a monster physically or anything, but he uses his size extremely well and protects the puck as good as any of them. Combine that with his playmaking and passing and he is very lethal. The main issue with him right now is that he lacks finish... that said, I think he is an excellent player and I look forward to him playing for us in the future.

Trading Voracek for Ryan would be really tough for me. I think I'd do it, but only because Ryan is a local guy. Voracek is going to be great in this league.... hes only 22...
Oh, believe me... I completely agree with you. I'm a huge Flyers fan as well, I watch them full-time as I do the Ducks. The real big issue is like what you've pointed out, he lacks finish. We need goal scoring. Really badly. Trading away Ryan would really hinder our production in that department.

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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Voracek is 6'2" 214lbs.

Ryan is 6'2" 209lbs.

Just listing some things off people have been using as trade bait for Ryan and they certainly don't lack size.
Any defensemen are irrelevant at this point after our acquisitions. As far as the difference between Voracek and Ryan go, statistically there isn't a huge one like you've pointed out (although those look a little skewed, Ryan is definitely bigger than that). But Ryan does have a physical edge to his game and when he gets motivated he will absolutely run over people.

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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
On the other hand, and to play Devil's advocate, don't you lose a significant amount of scoring a Zibanejad-Greening deal for Ryan? You definitely lose a physical presence, but Voracek (6'1-6'2, 205) is not much smaller than Ryan, and is actually the same size as Greening (6'2, 205).

Anyway, the key seems to be that Zibanejad fits the need for a long-term 2C, one that Flyers can't match without including Schenn or Couturier.
Good point. I key back to the argument that we're still not getting the goal scoring back with Voracek though. I think he's definitely got the potential to be a very special player in this league, in the playoffs there were a few times that he looked just like Giroux out there (and I'm not talking about the beautiful red locks ). Palmieri will make our team and surprise a lot of people next year, I can't wait to see just how many he pots this year. But unfortunately there's just way too big of a risk in not netting a goal-scorer in a Ryan trade. And while Read is definitely a bargain, a guy like Simmonds is probably the secondary asset we'd want returned in a trade and it'd be downright silly to move him from the Flyers perspective. He's the prototypical Flyer.

I'm telling you, Ryan would sniff around 50 goals on a Philly team where he'd likely play alongside Giroux and be a go-to guy on the power play. I think we're criminally under-utilizing him in Anaheim which is why a lot of fans understandably scoff at what some Ducks fans are asking for in a trade. It's because we know what he will be one day and he's buried in our lineup for some reason. We shift him around with makeshift third lines, a second power play unit whose personnel is never the same for more than a game, and most of all we took him off of what was the most dangerous line in the NHL for sometime.

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07-03-2012, 07:21 PM
  #597
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I'm telling you, Ryan would sniff around 50 goals on a Philly team where he'd likely play alongside Giroux and be a go-to guy on the power play. I think we're criminally under-utilizing him in Anaheim which is why a lot of fans understandably scoff at what some Ducks fans are asking for in a trade. It's because we know what he will be one day and he's buried in our lineup for some reason. We shift him around with makeshift third lines, a second power play unit whose personnel is never the same for more than a game, and most of all we took him off of what was the most dangerous line in the NHL for sometime.

Obviously you watch him more than me, but I'm a bit skeptical. I know Ryan doesn't get the prime PP minutes, but Getzlaf and Perry still are his most common linemates over the last 4 seasons and he averages 19:00 per game. I would not say he is a player deprived of opportunity or high quality teammates (as you can make the case with Voracek or Nash).

With more PP time maybe you can give him the benefit of the doubt as a 35/40 guy rather than the 30/35 guy he has been in Anaheim. But penciling him in for 50 seems improbable / highly optimistic.

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07-03-2012, 07:42 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
So, either you get what you want in a deal, or you're going to be sitting in your own ****? That's pretty much what I read up there.


"Make sure you give us exactly what we want, because if you don't, we'll keep Ryan and sit in our on **** to boot!"
Don't know if I'd word it that way, but kind of. They're not trading him for anything less than what they want. It was the same way last winter, when they fired the coach over trading him for anything less than their demands.

That article completely overstated Ryan's feelings towards Anaheim. He doesn't want out, he just wants them to stop trying to trade him, or as he put it, wants to go to the rink not thinking he could be dealt if he has a bad game. That's a pretty easy fix if they don't trade him this summer. Maybe the Flyers step it up, maybe they don't, but there is no package from Philly that isn't centered around Schenn or Couturier. Not one that Anaheim accepts, anyway.

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07-03-2012, 07:53 PM
  #599
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Obviously you watch him more than me, but I'm a bit skeptical. I know Ryan doesn't get the prime PP minutes, but Getzlaf and Perry still are his most common linemates over the last 4 seasons and he averages 19:00 per game. I would not say he is a player deprived of opportunity or high quality teammates (as you can make the case with Voracek or Nash).

With more PP time maybe you can give him the benefit of the doubt as a 35/40 guy rather than the 30/35 guy he has been in Anaheim. But penciling him in for 50 seems improbable / highly optimistic.
Perennial 50 goal scorer? Absolutely not. That's poor wording on my part. I think he could definitely come close to hitting it though. Although he's played with Getzlaf and Perry most of the time, there's a lot more that goes into that.

Last year, for example, was terrible. At the start of the season, I was predicting Ryan to be the leading goal scorer on the team with 40 or more, possibly challenging for the Richard. Everything went right for them in 2010/11. When last year rolled around, that all changed. Carlyle was always a ***** about Ryan. He played favorites with the team and it really killed the confidence of a lot of guys, Ryan in particular. He constantly criticized Ryan for not crashing the net every shift as if that's the player he's always been or something. The fact is, Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry was at it's best when they were out there doing what they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted. That's not to say they clashed with a coach, it's just that when last year rolled around Carlyle tried to coach certain players to certain games. This is noted by Beleskey (a guy who broke out under Boudreau) who said he really felt like he belonged under Boudreau, who coached the entire team the same. Ryan is definitely a guy that plays with finesse more often than not, but at the same time uses his body. It really seemed like Carlyle was trying to coach him to be Penner 2.0 whose only goal was to make room for Getzlaf and Perry. The real issue there is Ryan is so much more than that.

The height of all the rumors hit last season when Ryan had basically been thrown in the doghouse and been forced to play with makeshift (make-**** being a more accurate term here) third lines that consisted of Cogliano, Bonino, Beleskey, Holland, and Smith-Pelly. Ryan is an elite goal-scorer. He has no business on a line with guys that aren't going to set him up or finish any of the plays he makes. Carlyle got sacked because he created too many issues with players. Ryan was most vocal, but there were certainly more. Now, as you'll notice everyone's production went down last year on our team. If you look at the specific stats, you'll even notice Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry were performing better under Carlyle, but as far as I'm concerned that has to do with them learning a new coaching style completely opposite of everything before. Ask any of us and we'll tell you everyone on the team looked much better under Boudreau.

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07-03-2012, 08:41 PM
  #600
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Maybe its just me, but add Voracek to Schenn and Couturier as the players I don't want to see traded. Seriously, Voracek is 22! Physically he is awesome, the way he shugs off defenders with his back side and how strong he is on the puck. He also is really relentless defensively. We stole this kid of the Jackets. I think his ceiling might be higher than Ryan's, so I'm not in favor of trading Jake + to get Ryan.

I'm willing to part with Read, that's about it. And only because he is already almost 26. He will be a very solid player in this league, but I would probably do it for Read + assets.

Ideally, I want the team to stay as it is and to see Suter signed. I honestly feel thats all we need.

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