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Our defensive prospect depth

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Old
06-22-2012, 09:05 PM
  #26
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by Sluck13 View Post
I dont agree on Scheen you dont dump a guy after a bad half season, 6,3 defenceman 230 pounds who is top of the nhl in hits doesnt come around to often
Over the past 3 seasons, he's 3rd among NHL d-men in hits + blocked shots and perhaps more suprisingly, 28th overall in ES points.

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Old
06-22-2012, 09:11 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
If we can pick up Schultz, we can definitely afford to send some away for an upgrade up-front.
Without a doubt the plan.

Stack the D, trade for help up front.

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06-22-2012, 09:13 PM
  #28
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Without a doubt the plan.

Stack the D, trade for help up front.
Not sure who stays and who goes. I mean we could potentially move Gardiner, Reilly or whomever who is cream of the crop, or we move some of our depth guys, in which case we just get more depth forwards back like Carter Ashton.

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06-22-2012, 09:43 PM
  #29
Ricky Bobby
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Not sure who stays and who goes. I mean we could potentially move Gardiner, Reilly or whomever who is cream of the crop, or we move some of our depth guys, in which case we just get more depth forwards back like Carter Ashton.
Franson isn't really needed in Toronto. Can't play the penalty kill, only so-so 5 on 5 and behind Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner for powerplay time.

Komisarek. No explanation needed!

One of Gunnarson or Schenn is probably gone in a trade for a forward upgrade. My hope is that it's Gunnarson. Everybody is high on Gunnar right now and down on Schenn but soon enough Schenn will surpass him.

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06-22-2012, 09:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Franson isn't really needed in Toronto. Can't play the penalty kill, only so-so 5 on 5 and behind Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner for powerplay time.

Komisarek. No explanation needed!

One of Gunnarson or Schenn is probably gone in a trade for a forward upgrade. My hope is that it's Gunnarson. Everybody is high on Gunnar right now and down on Schenn but soon enough Schenn will surpass him.
Well of course Franson, Komisarek, Gunnarsson and Schenn could be moved, but we are also likely to get back a forward who other teams don't need, right? Therefore, the quality forward isn't resolved. But there's always next year.

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06-22-2012, 09:52 PM
  #31
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Well of course Franson, Komisarek, Gunnarsson and Schenn could be moved, but we are also likely to get back a forward who other teams don't need, right? Therefore, the quality forward isn't resolved. But there's always next year.
Franson and Komisarek certainly wouldn't bring back much in return.

Gunnarson and Schenn however are valuable trade assets.

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Old
06-22-2012, 09:59 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Franson isn't really needed in Toronto. Can't play the penalty kill, only so-so 5 on 5 and behind Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner for powerplay time.

Komisarek. No explanation needed!

One of Gunnarson or Schenn is probably gone in a trade for a forward upgrade. My hope is that it's Gunnarson. Everybody is high on Gunnar right now and down on Schenn but soon enough Schenn will surpass him.

That's funny, because on a better team he was the d man with one of the best d men in the game on the powerplay. So is he qualified to be on a better team, or is he unqualified to be on a terrible team? Because something has to give

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06-22-2012, 10:05 PM
  #33
Ricky Bobby
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That's funny, because on a better team he was the d man with one of the best d men in the game on the powerplay. So is he qualified to be on a better team, or is he unqualified to be on a terrible team? Because something has to give
He was the 6th/7th dman in Nashville. Just because Nashville has better top end talent like Suter/Weber over our top 2 of Phaneuf/Gunnarson in their D group doesn't mean the rest of their D group was better than our group.

Lebda also played for a top team in Detroit prior to Toronto.

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06-22-2012, 10:28 PM
  #34
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Well than maybe it's the team and not the player then. Why get rid of a great young d men when you have dumps making ridiculous money that are worse? Getting rid of Franson would be a mistake, he is a great player.

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06-22-2012, 11:01 PM
  #35
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How about we wait until these guys play in the NHL...or better yet, see how many of them ever make the NHL.

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06-22-2012, 11:03 PM
  #36
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
Well than maybe it's the team and not the player then. Why get rid of a great young d men when you have dumps making ridiculous money that are worse? Getting rid of Franson would be a mistake, he is a great player.
It's largely the top end talent that Toronto can't match. Toronto doesn't have a player that can match the impact Weber, Suter or Rinne have on a game.

Franson is a bottom pairing player on the Leafs.

He's an offensive player who isn't good enough offensively to play over Phaneuf, Liles or Gardiner in offensive roles. He also can't be used in a defensive role. I like his salary cap hit but with Holzer looking ready he fits our needs as a bottom pairing dman better. Generating offence wasn't the problem for Toronto last year, it was the defensive side which just happens to be the weakest area of Franson's game.

Franson to me is stuck in a situation like CMac was in during his time in Buffalo. He wasn't good enough to get the needed minutes for his type of skillset over Vanek, Stafford or Pominville but then in Toronto he gets an opportunity because we lack/lacked offensive options when he came here. If Franson goes to a team like Tampa who are sorely lacking in D he just might get that chance to fully utilize his skillset with lots of powerplay time and the Leafs in turn could get some assets in return.

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06-22-2012, 11:09 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
How about we wait until these guys play in the NHL...or better yet, see how many of them ever make the NHL.
Notice I said... prospect depth.

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06-22-2012, 11:13 PM
  #38
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So the point is we have D men in our system? So does every other team.

Moving on

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Old
06-22-2012, 11:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
So the point is we have D men in our system? So does every other team.

Moving on
Living up to your username.

The fact of the matter is that the Leafs have a wonderful array of talent in their defensive prospect pool. Other NHL teams have defensive prospects in their system but most don't have them to the extent that the Leafs do. Don't like it? Feel free to click on another thread.

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06-22-2012, 11:36 PM
  #40
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phew, i was worried we'd get something we needed, like someone up front.

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06-22-2012, 11:43 PM
  #41
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phew, i was worried we'd get something we needed, like someone up front.
Like the next 5 teams also drafted dmen which should tell you how highly those forwards prospects were thought of.

Toronto made the right move by going with who they thought was the BPA.

Toronto can also always move a D or 2 down the road. Like how the Pens turned their D depth into Neal and Kunitz.

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06-22-2012, 11:56 PM
  #42
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HUGELY overrated! Toronto's D sucks!

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06-22-2012, 11:59 PM
  #43
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Like the next 5 teams also drafted dmen which should tell you how highly those forwards prospects were thought of.

Toronto made the right move by going with who they thought was the BPA.

Toronto can also always move a D or 2 down the road. Like how the Pens turned their D depth into Neal and Kunitz.
sure, we CAN always move them. but will we?

we have how big of a log jam on defence now? saddled with horrible NMC like the komi deal, i'd like to stop stockpiling a certain position and maybe start drafting for a certain position because at this rate there will never be a top forward available for us.

i wait for burke to prove me wrong.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:06 AM
  #44
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I wanna keep Luke Schenn. Ron Wilson's system was not the system for him. Move Phaneuf over to the left side (his proper side) and put Schenn as his partner and this year you'll see magic. Luke Schenn is gonna have a bounce back year this year in Carlyle's system. I want to see Luke on the top pairing. Schenn and Phaneuf's games will compliment each other very well.

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06-23-2012, 12:14 AM
  #45
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Have all the defensemen in the world you want. If you dont have the goaltending to make the stops & the forwards to put pressure on the opposition. Any defensemen you bring in are going to get worn down & look terrible.

I think you guys are underrating Franson, who in my opinion has the upside to be a second pairing guy. I wouldnt be shocked if another team felt the same way.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:15 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Living up to your username.

The fact of the matter is that the Leafs have a wonderful array of talent in their defensive prospect pool. Other NHL teams have defensive prospects in their system but most don't have them to the extent that the Leafs do. Don't like it? Feel free to click on another thread.
I just dont trust your methods of evaluating hockey talent. You essentially just took every d man we have in the system and said its a deep pool.

Is it? I dont know. My guess is you dont either. I would also bet a lot of money that if we swapped d prospects with just about any other team in the league, you would suddenly say that list of guys were deep.

We have some first round picks in the system. Thats great. But so do a lot of teams.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:16 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Franson to me is stuck in a situation like CMac was in during his time in Buffalo. He wasn't good enough to get the needed minutes for his type of skillset over Vanek, Stafford or Pominville but then in Toronto he gets an opportunity because we lack/lacked offensive options when he came here. If Franson goes to a team like Tampa who are sorely lacking in D he just might get that chance to fully utilize his skillset with lots of powerplay time and the Leafs in turn could get some assets in return.
I feel the same way about Franson, which is my biggest issue with the overstocking on defensemen.

We basically have a bunch of guys who could potentially blossom elsewhere, given more playing time and responsibilities, but because they have limited time here in Toronto, they're not inflating their trade values to the point where the Leafs could get some real help. If you move a guy like Franson at a discount, then when he develops, it looks like the Leafs got hosed. The only alternative I guess is to target forwards who are also buried in these awkward situations, and hope they blossom in Toronto, like the Aulie for Ashton deal.

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06-23-2012, 12:19 AM
  #48
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I'd really rather not get rid of Franson if it can be avoided. There is no defenseman on this team who is so proficient at getting shots from the point on net through traffic. Rarely gets his shots blocked.

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:24 AM
  #49
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long term if we get Schulz and keep Schenn would be Reilly, Gardiner, Schultz, and Schenn. I'm not sure if Phaneuf is here past 2 years.

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06-23-2012, 12:27 AM
  #50
Ricky Bobby
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sure, we CAN always move them. but will we?

we have how big of a log jam on defence now? saddled with horrible NMC like the komi deal, i'd like to stop stockpiling a certain position and maybe start drafting for a certain position because at this rate there will never be a top forward available for us.

i wait for burke to prove me wrong.
Whatever forward we could've drafted at # 5 probably wouldn't make an impact for 2, 3 or maybe even 4 years anyways. A lot can change between now and then.

With as little as one trade as well.

There wasn't a top forward available at 5. If there was well I guess the scouts of the next 5 teams missed him as well and I'd tend to trust their collective minds over HF posters.

And the Komi deal only runs for 2 more years.

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