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Old
06-23-2012, 12:14 PM
  #101
colchar
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
In a couple of years we're going to have a great defence! However, we're going to lose a lot of games 3-2, 2-1, 1-0, because we'll have virtually no offence.

So a team that finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year has no offence?

The Stanley Cup Champions finished 29th in goals scored, we finished 10th, and yet we have no offense?

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06-23-2012, 12:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
So a team that finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year has no offence?

The Stanley Cup Champions finished 29th in goals scored, we finished 10th, and yet we have no offense?
Some fans don't understand at all how scouting and hockey operations work. No clue.

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06-23-2012, 12:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
So a team that finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year has no offence?
It helps when you don't play defence.

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06-23-2012, 12:19 PM
  #104
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A lot of depth, me thinks Burke is going to move a couple of pieces around (Franson, maybe Schenn as well).

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06-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
As of right now who i value for the future:

1. Gardiner
2. Rielly
3. Schenn
4. Finn
5. Percy
6. Blacker
7. Holzer

Not to mention Gunnarsson, Franson and Phaneuf who are only in their mid 20's.
I'd switch Percy and Finn. Percy had a very good year in junior and played well with the Marlies when called up. I might also put Blacker ahead of Finn simply because of Blacker's offensive game and more experience.

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06-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #106
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You have to wonder if the selection of two young Dman prospects by Leafs has any influence or impact on the Justin Schultz decision.

Its certainly more competition for him and future NHL dman spots.

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06-23-2012, 12:24 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
Some fans don't understand at all how scouting and hockey operations work. No clue.
I wish people were more impartial here. You forget to mention how the Kings acquired their two top centers. They drafted (kopitar) and traded for the other top center (Carter).

Of course people on the board mention how Carter's contract was too long and how he (like Versteeg) was bad in the dressing room. And there you go cup champions. And Versteeg did well in Florida.

Four years and the team has not addressed #1C and goaltending. No need to make excuses for Burke, his record speaks for himself.

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06-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Each one of our d prospects has tremendous offensive upside, save for Holzer and the already established Schenn. Gardiner and more so Rielly are offense focused. Finn is a puck mover with offensive upside. Blacker has offensive upside, and so does Percy. It's not like there a bunch of Hal Gill or Ken Klee projections.

Don't forget the chance of landing Schultz, who also has tremendous offensive upside.
With the mixture of defence the Leafs have stockpiled and the hiring of Randy Carlyle, I think Burke is preparing the defence first to protect the goaltender. This is going to be bold to say so soon but I think they can make Reimer or Scrivens look pretty good in the next couple of years. I hope some guys step it up next year (mainly Schenn) because I think that's the direction the Leafs are going with Carlyle.

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06-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You have to wonder if the selection of two young Dman prospects by Leafs has any influence or impact on the Justin Schultz decision.

Its certainly more competition for him and future NHL dman spots.
The same can be said for Edmonton's lack of defensive selections. Maybe the teams already know something we don't.

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06-23-2012, 12:27 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You have to wonder if the selection of two young Dman prospects by Leafs has any influence or impact on the Justin Schultz decision.

Its certainly more competition for him and future NHL dman spots.
  • Phaneuf
  • Liles
  • Schenn
  • Gunnarsson
  • Gardiner
  • Schultz
  • Holzer

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Old
06-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You have to wonder if the selection of two young Dman prospects by Leafs has any influence or impact on the Justin Schultz decision.

Its certainly more competition for him and future NHL dman spots.
It shouldn't. The d-men picked today won't be in the lineup for at least 2 years.

People need to get it out of their heads that picks in 2012 draft is going to affect next season.

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06-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
So a team that finished 10th in the league in goals scored last year has no offence?

The Stanley Cup Champions finished 29th in goals scored, we finished 10th, and yet we have no offense?
Coach Wilson, and his run and gun offence, have left the building!

Carlye likes defence first hockey! We'll need a first line centre to keep the offence alive now. Just MHO.

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06-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You have to wonder if the selection of two young Dman prospects by Leafs has any influence or impact on the Justin Schultz decision.

Its certainly more competition for him and future NHL dman spots.
If that was part of his consideration; the Leafs would have no chance against Edmonton in the first place.

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06-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
Some fans don't understand at all how scouting and hockey operations work. No clue.
Valid.

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06-23-2012, 12:33 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
The same can be said for Edmonton's lack of defensive selections. Maybe the teams already know something we don't.
Burke made his first 2 selections based on who he felt was the best player at that time. He did not go off of need. The position he drafted for is absolutely no indication of what he feels about this team at this time.

You can watch the interviews before the 1st round and the one before the 2nd round. In both he corrected those interviewing him; when they suggested he would go with a forward. He told them he may very well go defence; if that is what is available. He even mentioned that it was doubtful they would draft based off of need.

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06-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #116
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If Schultz is looking at 3 Canadian teams, he's going to have to make a decision.

1. The Canucks, where the expectation is to win now, and each mistake will lead to scrutiny and may result in sitting on the bench.

2 The Oilers where he'll be the the face of a young defence, who are relatively shallow. They are rebuilding so he can afford to make mistakes.

3. Toronto where he will have to compete with several players for playing time. If a player struggles, especially if he's a waiver exempt player, could be in the AHL.

I've said from the start, if Schultz expects to step into the NHL right away, I don't want him on my team anyway. If he's prepared to earn his spot, and play in the AHL if required, I'm all for signing him.

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06-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
If Schultz is looking at 3 Canadian teams, he's going to have to make a decision.

1. The Canucks, where the expectation is to win now, and each mistake will lead to scrutiny and may result in sitting on the bench.

2 The Oilers where he'll be the the face of a young defence, who are relatively shallow. They are rebuilding so he can afford to make mistakes.

3. Toronto where he will have to compete with several players for playing time. If a player struggles, especially if he's a waiver exempt player, could be in the AHL.

I've said from the start, if Schultz expects to step into the NHL right away, I don't want him on my team anyway. If he's prepared to earn his spot, and play in the AHL if required, I'm all for signing him.
The Schultz situation is different because he's a UFA but doesn't come with an inflated salary. He truly is like adding another 1st round pick.

Burke is nuts if he passes up the opportunity.

Adding Schultz means someone like Franson can be traded right away.

Not only do you end up with a player with higher upside in Schultz, the Leafs would also have whatever return Franson could bring back.

It's similar to the situation Boston had with signing Wheeler which helped make Kobasew expendable in a trade.

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06-23-2012, 12:55 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The Schultz situation is different because he's a UFA but doesn't come with an inflated salary. He truly is like adding another 1st round pick.

Burke is nuts if he passes up the opportunity.

Adding Schultz means someone like Franson can be traded right away.

Not only do you end up with a player with higher upside in Schultz, the Leafs would also have whatever return Franson could bring back.

It's similar to the situation Boston had with signing Wheeler which helped make Kobasew expendable in a trade.
I absolutely think Burke tries to get Schultz. I wonder if Schultz will like to come to Toronto.

FTR, Schultz will be a UFA in just a few hours.

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06-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
If Schultz is looking at 3 Canadian teams, he's going to have to make a decision.

1. The Canucks, where the expectation is to win now, and each mistake will lead to scrutiny and may result in sitting on the bench.

2 The Oilers where he'll be the the face of a young defence, who are relatively shallow. They are rebuilding so he can afford to make mistakes.

3. Toronto where he will have to compete with several players for playing time. If a player struggles, especially if he's a waiver exempt player, could be in the AHL.

I've said from the start, if Schultz expects to step into the NHL right away, I don't want him on my team anyway. If he's prepared to earn his spot, and play in the AHL if required, I'm all for signing him.
Schultz contract will be the same ELC base with performances bonuses for all..

So for that to matter most financially $$$, he needs to pick a team where he can get the most ATOI to perform or produce stats to earn those bonuses.

Vancouver gives him the highest point production possibility with a roster spot, and Edmonton would instantly guarantee him the most ice time and even PP time.

Leafs have some real competition here.

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06-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
The Schultz situation is different because he's a UFA but doesn't come with an inflated salary. He truly is like adding another 1st round pick.

Burke is nuts if he passes up the opportunity.

Adding Schultz means someone like Franson can be traded right away.

Not only do you end up with a player with higher upside in Schultz, the Leafs would also have whatever return Franson could bring back.

It's similar to the situation Boston had with signing Wheeler which helped make Kobasew expendable in a trade.
We should still add Schultz, and then in the future I guess we can pare down the weakest link out of Schultz, Gardiner or Rielly as our top pairing, moving one for a great young forward.

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06-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Schultz contract will be the same ELC base with performances bonuses for all..

So for that to matter most financially $$$, he needs to pick a team where he can get the most ATOI to perform or produce stats to earn those bonuses.

Vancouver gives him the highest point production possibility with a roster spot, and Edmonton would instantly guarantee him the most ice time and even PP time.

Leafs have some real competition here.
And if he's making his decision solely on that basis, do we want him? Because to me, that says spoiled little princess.

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06-23-2012, 01:23 PM
  #122
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Morgan Rielly - Top pairing potential, powerplay QB, 5th overall in 2012.
Jake Gardiner - Top pairing potential, NHL all rookie team in 2012, 17th overall in 2008.
Dion Phaneuf - #2 defenceman, physical two-way player, 9th overall in 2003.
Carl Gunnarsson - Second pairing defenceman, cerebral and consistent two-way player, 194th in 2007.
Luke Schenn - Second pairing potential, defensive player with some puck skills, 5th overall in 2008.
John-Michael Liles - Second pairing defenceman, powerplay QB, 159th overall in 2000.
Cody Franson - Second pairing potential, good size/skating, can play the PP, 79th overall in 2005.
Jesse Blacker - Second pairing potential, great skating/puck skills, 58th overall in 2009.
Stuart Percy - Second pairing potential, cerebral puck moving player, 25th overall in 2011.
Matthew Finn - Second pairing potential, smart two-way player, 35th overall in 2012.
Korbinian Holzer* - Third pairing potential, shut-down defenceman, 111th overall in 2006.
Mike Komisarek - #6/7 defensive defenceman, good leader but overpriced contract, 7th overall in 2001.
Tom Nilsson - Second pairing potential, project two-way player in Kronwall mould, 100th overall in 2011.
Petter Granberg - Third pairing potential, strictly defensive player, tremendous strength, 116th overall in 2010.
Dennis Robertson - Third pairing potential, good shot on the PP, 173rd overall in 2011.
Simon Gysbers* - AHL defenceman, good size/skating, signed as an NCAA UFA in 2010.
Mark Fraser* - AHL defenecman, defensive player, 84th overall in 2005.
Juraj Mikus* - AHL defenceman, defensive player with good size/skating, 134th overall in 2007.
Andrew MacWilliam - Depth defenceman potential, defensive player, 188th overall in 2008.
Max Everson - Depth defenceman potential, mobile defensive player, 203rd overall in 2011.
Viktor Loov - Unknown, drafted by scout Thommie Bergmann (legendary European head scout).
Eric Knodel - 3rd pairing potential, project player with good size/skating, 128th overall in 2009.

* - RFA (Restricted free agent)

How I would rank them (based on value):

01. Morgan Rielly
02. Jake Gardiner
03. Carl Gunnarsson
04. Luke Schenn
05. Dion Phaneuf
06. Cody Franson
07. Jesse Blacker
08. Stuart Percy
09. Matthew Finn
10. John-Michael Liles
11. Korbinian Holzer
12. Tom Nilsson
13. Petter Granberg
14. Andrew MacWilliam
15. Mark Fraser
16. Simon Gysbers
17. Dennis Robertson
18. Mike Komisarek
19. Viktor Loov
20. Max Everson
21. Eric Knodel

Compared to the rest of the NHL: Top 5 in terms of organizational depth.

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Old
06-23-2012, 01:26 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Schultz contract will be the same ELC base with performances bonuses for all..

So for that to matter most financially $$$, he needs to pick a team where he can get the most ATOI to perform or produce stats to earn those bonuses.

Vancouver gives him the highest point production possibility with a roster spot, and Edmonton would instantly guarantee him the most ice time and even PP time.

Leafs have some real competition here.
If money was his motivation, he would have signed with the Ducks months ago. Or years ago.

Edit: However, his agents at Newport pride themselves on the ability to get their clients endorsement deals. He wouldn't have much hope of big endorsement money in California, which may explain the Canadian team thing.

Hey, maybe Pittsburg is the team that got to him.

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06-23-2012, 01:39 PM
  #124
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I hope Im wrong, but I think this means that burke is not planning on being able to sign schultz. I agree that BPA is the way to go, but I mean come on How many defence do we really need that all play almost the exact same style?

I mean if we got schultz:

Dion isnt going anywhere, liles has a NTC with a 4 year deal, we have seen that komisarek will play no matter what. Gunnar is the only defensive d, and schenn is one of 2 with snarl.

Gunnar Dion
Liles Schenn
Gardiner Schultz
Komi?

Maybe?

Holzer, Franson could be gone for picks/Prospects.

But then you still have as offensive d:
Reilly, Blacker
And Percy/Finn from what I understand are the same player.....
Bottom line is toronto needs forwards not D, and more size and strength, not soft d.

I have been on board with most of what Burke has done, but it is getting ridiculous.

You cant have
Gardiner, Reilly, Schenn, Schultz, Blacker, Percy, Finn, granberg, fighting for like 3 spots. The others wont get enough time to blossom and will end up going for cheap. I just dont see the plan here.

Of course I wanted forsberg, but considering how many teams passed on him, maybe his is MPS 2.0????

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Old
06-23-2012, 01:44 PM
  #125
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liles has a NTC with a 4 year deal
Given that this is a Burke contract, it's most likely a limited NTC in that he has to give a list of places he is willing to be traded to each year.

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