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With the #7 pick, the Wild select Mathew Dumba

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06-25-2012, 08:19 PM
  #726
Surly Furious
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Disagree....the quality of competition in the AHL is lightyears ahead of the CHL. IMO, he's already outgrown the CHL.
Well, one area he could explore is that of Captaincy. I've seen him with an A on his jersey, how about a whole season with a C instead?

Getting bigger and stronger wouldn't hurt either - seriously, he ain't even 18 yet.

How about a Memorial Cup run?

Plenty of opportunities for growth in the CHL for this lad.

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06-25-2012, 08:25 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Well, one area he could explore is that of Captaincy. I've seen him with an A on his jersey, how about a whole season with a C instead?

Getting bigger and stronger wouldn't hurt either - seriously, he ain't even 18 yet.

How about a Memorial Cup run?

Plenty of opportunities for growth in the CHL for this lad.

Sure, I can buy alot of this.....But, it still doesn't change my opinion of the rule. I just think he would be better off, developmentally speaking, playing in the AHL for a full season instead of the WHL.

Oh well, it is what it is.....

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06-25-2012, 09:00 PM
  #728
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Have him go back to Red Deer, hope he has a Dougie Hamilton-like season, and then bring him in the year after.

In my opinion, at least.

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06-25-2012, 09:38 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
I wonder if he spends one more year in the CHL or two?
dont you have to be 19 to be in the AHL? my guess is one more year in Red Deer, then on the wild or in houston if he can go as a 19 yr old. because i think phillips is only 19 and they will be in houston prob this year

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06-25-2012, 09:40 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by keppel146 View Post
dont you have to be 19 to be in the AHL? my guess is one more year in Red Deer, then on the wild or in houston if he can go as a 19 yr old. because i think zucker and phillips are only 19 and they will be in houston prob this year
Zucker is 20, but he played NCAA so it doesn't matter...he could've played in Houston as an 18 year old.

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06-25-2012, 10:26 PM
  #731
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Zucker is 20, but he played NCAA so it doesn't matter...he could've played in Houston as an 18 year old.
I can't think of a single example of that, but yeah, I don't know of any rules that would stop a US-born 18 year old from playing in the AHL.

I get why the rule exists, I just think that it's got the potential to harm the development of some players. Nino is a GREAT example. They didn't want him to go back to the minors, couldn't get him into their own development, so they rushed him and destroyed his confidence...

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06-25-2012, 10:48 PM
  #732
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Would be interesting to see if it gets addressed in the CBA, but is it a big enough issue?

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06-25-2012, 11:04 PM
  #733
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The CHL needs to get over itself and this protection needs to be removed. NHL teams should be free to put their prospects wherever they feel they would develop best, be that in European leagues, the AHL, CHL, USHL, or wherever. This archaic rule barring CHL players from playing in the AHL until age 20 is preposterous and holds back player development.

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06-25-2012, 11:20 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
The CHL needs to get over itself and this protection needs to be removed. NHL teams should be free to put their prospects wherever they feel they would develop best, be that in European leagues, the AHL, CHL, USHL, or wherever. This archaic rule barring CHL players from playing in the AHL until age 20 is preposterous and holds back player development.
It's not a matter of "getting over themselves".

It's a matter of offering a guarantee to their fanbase that as soon as they get a good player, there's at least a chance of him sticking around for more than 6 months.

How can you sell season tickets for a CHL season when the up-and-coming player(s) that you've just drafted are gone in a single season? That would just plain suck....

I don't like the rule, but it's in place for an extremely valid business reason.

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06-25-2012, 11:20 PM
  #735
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I don't think it's a CBA issue; I think it's the transfer agreement with the CHL.

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06-25-2012, 11:28 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I don't think it's a CBA issue; I think it's the transfer agreement with the CHL.
It is indeed the transfer agreement. It should be wholly separate from the CBA.

As has been pointed out a number of times, it's a contractual issue. Also, it's not nearly so big a deal as people try to make it out as. Maybe it would be nice to have the age dropped to 19 (with a corresponding change in the age determination date). Maybe it would be nice to have teams be given a single exemption per year or two. Ultimately it is not a major issue.

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06-26-2012, 12:12 AM
  #737
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I could see him playing a few games for the Wild this year, but I'd rather see him in the CHL for a year. Sure, he'd get coaching in Houston, but the Wild are going to make sure he is still getting the resources to succeed in Red Deer.

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06-26-2012, 01:05 AM
  #738
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I could see him playing a few games for the Wild this year, but I'd rather see him in the CHL for a year. Sure, he'd get coaching in Houston, but the Wild are going to make sure he is still getting the resources to succeed in Red Deer.
As would everybody.

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06-26-2012, 01:44 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Vashanesh View Post
It's not a matter of "getting over themselves".

It's a matter of offering a guarantee to their fanbase that as soon as they get a good player, there's at least a chance of him sticking around for more than 6 months.

How can you sell season tickets for a CHL season when the up-and-coming player(s) that you've just drafted are gone in a single season? That would just plain suck....

I don't like the rule, but it's in place for an extremely valid business reason.
As an NCAA season ticket holder, its not that hard to get over it. Build a good developmental program and provide incentives to stay and win, rip on Minnesotan's as NHL prospects all you want but I will always respect players for their decision to just play the game and let their talent work itself out, when they are ready for the NHL they are ready.

Taylor Hall is another example IMO of a guy who really could have used some time, even a few months, in the AHL to develop a more pro game. Not to say he has had a poor development but his transition would have been a lot better with some seasoning, as is his hands are still way behind is foot speed and he has underperformed quite a bit to his potential that he had as a prospect.

The current gap between the CHL and NHL is just too big IMO and there should be options for these guys because its a shame to see prospects stall out, but as you said the Canadians made Juniors a business so those are the effects I guess.

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06-26-2012, 02:40 AM
  #740
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No 18 or 19 year old is NHL ready.

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06-26-2012, 03:01 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Jagged Ice View Post
No 18 or 19 year old is NHL ready.
Let's not go making generalizations now.

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06-26-2012, 03:05 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Jagged Ice View Post
No 18 or 19 year old is NHL ready.
That sure seems to be the new trend though.

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06-26-2012, 03:38 AM
  #743
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Originally Posted by keppel146 View Post
dont you have to be 19 to be in the AHL? my guess is one more year in Red Deer, then on the wild or in houston if he can go as a 19 yr old. because i think phillips is only 19 and they will be in houston prob this year
He can play anywhere next year. I know I heard on the radio he's going to be trying to crack the roster right away. I'd be shocked if he did personally but he'll probably end up in Houston.

And he has played 3 years in juniors so he's good to go in terms of transfer agreements.

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06-26-2012, 03:41 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Jagged Ice View Post
No 18 or 19 year old is NHL ready.
Tell that to Jeff Skinner or RNH or Gabriel Landeskog.

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06-26-2012, 04:15 AM
  #745
Jagged Ice
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Tell that to Jeff Skinner or RNH or Gabriel Landeskog.
or Crosby and Stamkos? Always exceptions but just saying in general.

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06-26-2012, 04:41 AM
  #746
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Wow, nice double post there.

We won't know whether Dumba is NHL ready or not until he plays a game or two or nine in the NHL. I'm pretty optimistic about his chances, but what do I know?

E: Make it triple.


Last edited by Haite: 06-26-2012 at 04:47 AM.
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Old
06-26-2012, 09:36 AM
  #747
Vashanesh
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Originally Posted by Ovechkid08 View Post
As an NCAA season ticket holder, its not that hard to get over it. Build a good developmental program and provide incentives to stay and win, rip on Minnesotan's as NHL prospects all you want but I will always respect players for their decision to just play the game and let their talent work itself out, when they are ready for the NHL they are ready.

Taylor Hall is another example IMO of a guy who really could have used some time, even a few months, in the AHL to develop a more pro game. Not to say he has had a poor development but his transition would have been a lot better with some seasoning, as is his hands are still way behind is foot speed and he has underperformed quite a bit to his potential that he had as a prospect.

The current gap between the CHL and NHL is just too big IMO and there should be options for these guys because its a shame to see prospects stall out, but as you said the Canadians made Juniors a business so those are the effects I guess.
NCAA recruitment =/= CHL drafts.

It's a completely different beast up there. There's basically nothing to stop an NCAA team from just bringing in the next top recruits other than their own program. If you have a top pick in the CHL draft, and there's no transfer agreement? It's a double edged sword, more so than it already is.

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06-26-2012, 10:44 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
As would everybody.
Except Dumba himself.

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06-26-2012, 06:17 PM
  #749
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if Dumba was Murray's age, I would be all for giving him a solid chance at playing this year in the NHL but looking at Matt's style of play.... he could use another year to season / develop / grow.

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06-26-2012, 10:19 PM
  #750
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CHL players need be to 20 years of age, or have accrued 4 full seasons in their league, to be eligible to play in the AHL. So it's the NHL or Juniors for Dumba.

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