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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
06-25-2012, 04:45 PM
  #226
Captain Hook
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
We'll see I guess in 5 years or so. We can revisit this topic then.
Does it really matter though? We'd probably pick someone other than Staal if we got a do over for 2006 but he was still a great asset to our team. That's all that matters. As long as Pouliot becomes a good player himself then we should be fine. He'll help our team or if we don't need him we'll move him along to another club for the next James Neal type of guy.

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06-25-2012, 04:46 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Does it really matter though? We'd probably pick someone other than Staal if we got a do over for 2006 but he was still a great asset to our team. That's all that matters. As long as Pouliot becomes a good player himself then we should be fine. He'll help our team or if we don't need him we'll move him along to another club for the next James Neal type of guy.
It doesn't matter as far as saying he wasn't the guy we should have picked. I mean I'd rather have Toews than Staal if we had a do over, but clearly we still got value out of Staal.

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06-25-2012, 05:02 PM
  #228
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Pouliot inspires art:

Quote:
The Penguins Pick a Pooh
We didn't have long to wait
Because Derrick Pouliot got drafted at number eight
He made us proud, the boy from Weyburn
This year the first round of the NHL draft was his turn
'Tis true
Rookie mistakes, he's made a few
Like the time in playoffs he made a cross-ice pass at the blueline
That made you wonder for a moment why the Hawks picked him 1st overall in 2009
But now he's all grown up
No longer a hockey pup
So the Penguins picked our Pooh
If you were them, wouldn't you?

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06-25-2012, 05:26 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I was going to be perfectly fine with Shero drafting any defenseman at pick #22. When they traded Staal though and got pick #8 with a bunch of good forward prospects still on the board, knowing that defenseman would probably be available at pick #22 and we were already deep there, that's when I didn't like the pick.

It doesn't have as much to do with not liking Pouliot, as it has to do with getting a blue chip forward prospect that this team is seriously lacking.
Meh.. Well maybe there are teams that screams for potential top-4 D-man, and that's when Pens comes to help. See: The Neal trade.

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06-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #230
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I'm just curious if the people knocking the pick have seen Pouliot and the people they'd rather us of taken. Honestly, with how many defensemen taken, Pouliot may have been ranked in the teens, but I think odds were pretty good that he would have been taken in the couple picks after us with how defensemen were flying off the board.

Other teams obviously felt the same way as Shero did because Forsberg dipped.

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06-25-2012, 05:41 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I agree with you on that in a lot of ways. I think the familiarity with him as a player and the confidence they have in that Portland coaching staff because of the job they've done developing Morrow played a big factor in picking this kid.
I think that this is a factor that is probably greatly overlooked when people are evaluating prospects. I'm sure that Shero and his scouts put a lot of stock into what programs these kids are drafted out of and which ones they will be playing in before turning pro.

It is very apparent that the Penguins were extremely high on this kid. Bylsma was on at one point during the draft and said that they were worried about him still being on the board at 8 once the trade was made.

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06-25-2012, 05:45 PM
  #232
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don't trust Pittsburgh journalists, then take it the from the Flyer's press:

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Pouliot is a strong skater and a good puck-moving blue liner. However, many regard him as one of, if not the, strongest passing d-man in this draft.
can't see how you can be mad about drafting someone who supposedly has best-in-the-draft skills.

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06-25-2012, 05:56 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
I think that this is a factor that is probably greatly overlooked when people are evaluating prospects. I'm sure that Shero and his scouts put a lot of stock into what programs these kids are drafted out of and which ones they will be playing in before turning pro.

It is very apparent that the Penguins were extremely high on this kid. Bylsma was on at one point during the draft and said that they were worried about him still being on the board at 8 once the trade was made.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
don't trust Pittsburgh journalists, then take it the from the Flyer's press:

can't see how you can be mad about drafting someone who supposedly has best-in-the-draft skills.
Yeah, I've read and heard this from other people too. I believe one of the analyst on the draft show called him the best passing D-Man in the entire draft.

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06-25-2012, 07:37 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Does it really matter though? We'd probably pick someone other than Staal if we got a do over for 2006 but he was still a great asset to our team. That's all that matters. As long as Pouliot becomes a good player himself then we should be fine. He'll help our team or if we don't need him we'll move him along to another club for the next James Neal type of guy.
Staal was considered by most BPA at the time, so it's not the same situation.

Every mock and scouting report had many players ranked higher than Pouliot that were still available, which is why I'm upset with the pick.

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06-25-2012, 08:05 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post

Every mock and scouting report had many players ranked higher than Pouliot that were still available, which is why I'm upset with the pick.

Most mock drafts are done by morons who are not actually smarter/better informed than most of the people on this site. It's just that they happened to be employed by NHL.com or other media outlets that do mock drafts.


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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
Personally #2, i think the Pens went into this draft determined to get Pouliot no matter what, never thought they had a chance at Forsberg and simply put their heads in the sand and went with the original plan.

No offense, but it's pretty unrealistic and unintelligent to think that well-manged NHL organizations are totally myopic and don't have different strategies & plans going into a draft -- especially when they were looking at trading a player that was rumoured to possibly land us the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or other picks.

Those were all teams that were reported to have interest in Staal, so the Pens knew there was a chance they would be picking that high, and did the requisite planning. It's very likely they would have picked a different player if they were picking at #5, so who knows. And...


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Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
Here is what they/you say about Forsberg:

And Teravainen:

Just sayin'.

Well, Pierre McGuire, who obviously knows the Pens' & Shero's intents pretty well, said: "I'm pretty sure if this player (Pouliot) wasn't available, they would have gone in a different direction altogether". To me, that means positionally, which means they probably would have turned their attention to Forsberg, Teravainen or Grigorenko. So it's obvious by deduction that the Pens had Pouliot ranked higher than those guys on their list, period.


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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I was going to be perfectly fine with Shero drafting any defenseman at pick #22. When they traded Staal though and got pick #8 with a bunch of good forward prospects still on the board, knowing that defenseman would probably be available at pick #22 and we were already deep there, that's when I didn't like the pick.

It doesn't have as much to do with not liking Pouliot, as it has to do with getting a blue chip forward prospect that this team is seriously lacking.

I think it's safe to say that while Pouliot may have been available 3 to 6 picks after the #8 pick, it's virtually certain that he would not have been there at #22. Pouliot went #14 on the TSN mock draft (McGuire), ranked #18 by Button, and ranked #17 by Bob McKenzie. These are people who legitimately know the prospects well.


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Originally Posted by Jahodac View Post
Penguins aren't the only ones who passed on Forsberg and I am sure he dropped for a good reason. He won't be crossing the pond for 1-2 years anyway and who knows what will happen by then. You can tell by the other prospects drafted and trades made, Shero is planning on fixing the winger problem. Might as well build an elite defense alongside that.

I would agree witht this interpretation. It's pretty clear that Shero knew he would be addressing this winger situation via other means, via UFA or trade; and in the latter case has probably already had preliminary discussion on certain players, such as Ryan & Setoguchi, and knows which of our prospects would likely be included in the deal (i.e. Despres), and thus had a plan to replace them.

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06-25-2012, 08:17 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Most mock drafts are done by morons who are not actually smarter/better informed than most of the people on this site. It's just that they happened to be employed by NHL.com or other media outlets that do mock drafts.





No offense, but it's pretty unrealistic and unintelligent to think that well-manged NHL organizations are totally myopic and don't have different strategies & plans going into a draft -- especially when they were looking at trading a player that was rumoured to possibly land us the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or other picks.

Those were all teams that were reported to have interest in Staal, so the Pens knew there was a chance they would be picking that high, and did the requisite planning. It's very likely they would have picked a different player if they were picking at #5, so who knows. And...





Well, Pierre McGuire, who obviously knows the Pens' & Shero's intents pretty well, said: "I'm pretty sure if this player (Pouliot) wasn't available, they would have gone in a different direction altogether". To me, that means positionally, which means they probably would have turned their attention to Forsberg, Teravainen or Grigorenko. So it's obvious by deduction that the Pens had Pouliot ranked higher than those guys on their list, period.





I think it's safe to say that while Pouliot may have been available 3 to 6 picks after the #8 pick, it's virtually certain that he would not have been there at #22. Pouliot went #14 on the TSN mock draft (McGuire), ranked #18 by Button, and ranked #17 by Bob McKenzie. These are people who legitimately know the prospects well.





I would agree witht this interpretation. It's pretty clear that Shero knew he would be addressing this winger situation via other means, via UFA or trade; and in the latter case has probably already had preliminary discussion on certain players, such as Ryan & Setoguchi, and knows which of our prospects would likely be included in the deal (i.e. Despres), and thus had a plan to replace them.
Actually, from what I read, the Pens were really, really high on Pouliot (as in they thought he was the best defenseman in the draft HIGH). So, the pick isn't really that surprising if that's what they thought of him.

Plus, I tend to agree with you on the value of young PMD's. Ray Shero has set up a slot them in or ship them out pipeline that's going to be in full bloom within the next 12-24 months and will really pay off as the way Ray Shero will be able to sign Parise and Suter AND make it work under the cap for the next 5+ years or beyond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Staal was considered by most BPA at the time, so it's not the same situation.

Every mock and scouting report had many players ranked higher than Pouliot that were still available, which is why I'm upset with the pick.
Well, every mock draft and scouting report EXCEPT (at a minimum) apparently the Pens scouting report.

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06-25-2012, 08:26 PM
  #237
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I think it's entirely possible to like Pouliot but hate the pick. I mean...that's how I feel.

Pouliot could and probably will become a pretty good player in his own right, but personally he wasn't the BPA when the Pens picked him. Not even close. And before anyone tries to eat my lunch, yeah, I've seen him play and yeah he's a solid prospect.

I actually prefer Maatta (and I'm sure many scouts would agree) and believe Pouliot probably would have been available at 22.

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06-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #238
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I think it's entirely possible to like Pouliot but hate the pick. I mean...that's how I feel.

Pouliot could and probably will become a pretty good player in his own right, but personally he wasn't the BPA when the Pens picked him. Not even close. And before anyone tries to eat my lunch, yeah, I've seen him play and yeah he's a solid prospect.

I actually prefer Maatta (and I'm sure many scouts would agree) and believe Pouliot probably would have been available at 22.
These are my feelings as well.

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06-25-2012, 08:28 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
These are my feelings as well.
Yes, BUT the Pens saw him as BPA. And, when it comes to defensemen taken early, I tend to trust Ray and his staff.

EDIT: You know, sometimes teams go completely off the board with their picks. I remember in 2004, Phoenix, picking fifth overall, went completely off the board and took Blake Wheeler, some high school kid that probably half the fans in attendance had never heard of. Go look at the rest of that first round, with who came after: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NHL_Entry_Draft. In hindsight, it turned out of be a lot better of a pick than the conventional wisdom forward picks like Radislav Olesz (frankly, looking at the rest of that first round, eight years later only Drew Stafford was a first round forward who came after who you might have taken before Wheeler). BUT, again, AT THE TIME, it was a move that had pretty much everyone scratching their heads.

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06-25-2012, 08:29 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Yes, BUT the Pens saw him as BPA. And, when it comes to defensemen taken early, I tend to trust Ray and his staff.
I know, but like I said, we'll see in 5 or so years if they were right or not. Just my opinion that's all.

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06-25-2012, 09:22 PM
  #241
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So hypothetically, if the Pens hadn't drafted Pouliot.. And let's just say they took Forsberg, how far would Pouliot have fallen in that event? 10th? 12th?

This is one of those drafts where the difference between the 7th pick and the 20th pick is going to be all about personal preference- which scouts saw which player on a particular day, certain skills a team might value over others, interviews, etc. The fact that this draft was relatively weak at the top-end but rather stable through the mid-20's is probably one of the reasons the Canes didn't have an issue parting with 8th overall anyway.

I didn't expect Pouliot to go 8th any more than I expected Maatta to go 22nd. Basically I'm just glad we got both, regardless of the positions. They're great prospects.


As far as Pouliot, his on-ice game has been discussed pretty thoroughly, but I'll add that since the draft I've been pretty impressed by his persona off the ice too. He was described by Mckenzie as being shy, but I kind of disagree with that. He seems to have a quiet confidence to him. Pretty easy going and not awestruck by the attention of being an 8th overall pick by the hometown team.

Is there any info on how Pouliot (and Maatta) did in the draft combine fitness tests?

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06-25-2012, 09:26 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Yes, BUT the Pens saw him as BPA. And, when it comes to defensemen taken early, I tend to trust Ray and his staff.

EDIT: You know, sometimes teams go completely off the board with their picks. I remember in 2004, Phoenix, picking fifth overall, went completely off the board and took Blake Wheeler, some high school kid that probably half the fans in attendance had never heard of. Go look at the rest of that first round, with who came after: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NHL_Entry_Draft. In hindsight, it turned out of be a lot better of a pick than the conventional wisdom forward picks like Radislav Olesz (frankly, looking at the rest of that first round, eight years later only Drew Stafford was a first round forward who came after who you might have taken before Wheeler). BUT, again, AT THE TIME, it was a move that had pretty much everyone scratching their heads.
Uhh...what? If we're going to use hindsight then Blake Wheeler was a terrible pick for the Coyotes given he essentially was a wasted first round pick that yielded zero return. At least Olesz wore a Panthers jersey for a bunch of years.

Hickey was an off the board selection...how'd that work out?

And besides we're debating a useless point. Where a player is ranked and where a player gets drafted mean jack ****. An NHL draft pick depreciates the moment you select a player with it because you lose the "selection" portion of it. So off the board or conventional wisdom go out the window and everything shifts to opinion and player development.

Here's where some of my issues get eased. The same scouts that saw Morrow, saw Despres and the same scouts that saw Harrington, saw Maatta. Those picks turned out well, so you can at least assume that the succession rate is probably comparable.

But at the end of the day, different people see different things. I've seen both players and spoken to many people that feel the pick was a reach given the players available. That's not to say it's a bad pick, just that imo and the opinion's of many other's, early indications (the player's development up to this point) and future projections (the player's potential) aren't in Pouliot's favor. Clearly, the Pens saw it differently and yeah...they could be right. I mean, they seem to be able to draft good defenseman so they've got that going.

I just disagree with them. There were at least 7-8 players I liked a lot more than Pouliot and I'm not afraid to name them...Trouba, Girgensens, Forsberg, Faksa, Ceci, Tervainen and Maatta. Now that's not to say all these prospects will end up being better players, just that I think they will at this point. Maybe I'm wrong.

I still think Pouliot is a great prospect though. Hopefully it works out...my team allegiance has me wanting to believe that the Pens scouts know more or saw more or whatever. Hopefully they're right but even if thy aren't I still like the player we got.

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06-25-2012, 10:09 PM
  #243
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Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford said the Hurricanes did not have Pouliot ranked eighth but that “he was close” on their board.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...012-nhl-draft/

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06-26-2012, 08:14 AM
  #244
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Awesome, going to try to watch more Portland games next year. Will be fun to watch Pooh and Morrow

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06-26-2012, 08:34 AM
  #245
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Reading through that and catch the bits on Columbus, it makes you wonder if they should be in the discussion for relocation or at the least new ownership and management. What a joke of a franchise. Feel really bad for their fans.

That whole organization needs to be hit with a fire hose... rinse the perennial failure away, at every level, including drafting it seems. I've listened to their GM a few times and he strikes me as a guy with no vision for that team. And his draft / post-season trades seem to bear that out. I know Patrick is there now but I have to wonder how much of his "stamp" is on this year's draft for example.

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06-26-2012, 08:37 AM
  #246
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Awesome, going to try to watch more Portland games next year. Will be fun to watch Pooh and Morrow
Morrow won't be there.

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06-26-2012, 08:40 AM
  #247
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Joe is going pro.

WBS too, will have "Hockey to the Power of Joe ™"

Notationally written as "Hockey ^ Joe"

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06-26-2012, 08:42 AM
  #248
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Joe is going pro.

WBS too, will have "Hockey to the Power of Joe ™"

Notationally written as "Hockey ^ Joe"
Hockey to the Joe'th power?

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06-26-2012, 08:45 AM
  #249
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If the power of Joe would be translated to an amp, it would be the 11 on the volume knob.

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06-26-2012, 08:55 AM
  #250
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If the power of Joe would be translated to an amp, it would be the 11 on the volume knob.
11.5

Joes will not be limited by the likes of Spinal Tap.

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