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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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06-26-2012, 05:09 PM
  #276
KeepitinPitt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Both of these guys are in good org and will get top notch coaching next year. I'm confident we will see a big jump for both of them by the time they turn pro.

People just have to be patient and again, we have an exciting fwd prospect in the system now. Who cares where he was taken? It isn't a reflection on his skill, but ****** luck with injuries. His shoulder is supposed to of healed well and he added 13 lbs of muscle since he got hurt.

Marcantuoni is right in my backyard here, I know as much about him as anyone in the draft. He has all of the talent we have wanted in a fwd prospect for yrs.
Getting Marcantuoni and Zlobin made me feel a lot better about passing on Forsberg, honestly. I've seen Zlobin and read great things about Marcantuoni and it really seems as though they could be impact players in the future. People like myself can't complain about our lack of depth at wing anymore. We might not have the highest touted prospects but we seem to have a lot of good, productive players and a few with big offensive upside.

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06-26-2012, 05:43 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I admittedly haven't read the whole thread (I'm still a little hazy from my Draft trip) but are people really saying that Pouliot is a bad prospect? Because I think he's really solid, I just don't think he was the BPA when we picked. Clearly, the Pens disagreed and they took their guy and if I hadn't really seen him or many of the other top guys play I'd probably side with the professional scouts as opposed to an ass who habitually gets bombed and goes bowling.

But that's not a very fun or engaging argument. Saying that someone else disagrees is boring and unfair because who's to say Pouliot doesn't drop out of the first round if the Pens don't take him at eight? There's no way to know if that's a possibility since that's not how it played out for Pouliot...but that's what happened to Matt Finn who was similarly ranked leading up to the draft.

All it takes is for one team to fall in love with a guy and I think that's what happened to the Pens and Pouliot. And hey...that's great, he's a real good prospect. I just don't think he was as good as some of the other players available and that's cool if you disagree with me.
I think what I take issue with is not people disagreeing with the pick. Honestly, I probably would have rather seen a forward there also, and I'll also admit to sitting on my couch as the trade was announced and thinking, "Holy ****...we just got Forsberg." That being said, I can certainly see the holes in taking him. Yes, he does possess high end skill that we could use, but I am sort of concerned about his statistical output. I admittedly haven't seen any of the players in this draft, so I can't completely comment (which is why I take exception to some who read draft reports and go postal when we don't take a player). I am just wondering how much his play in one tournament played in his ranking. The more I read, the more the idea that the one tournament he played in and ripped it up was enough to cement himself in his spot, regardless of what he did.

I would also be a little cautious about him playing in Sweden for the next season or two, as that's what he's slated to do. Not so sure his transition to North America will be an easy one. He is said to have some problems playing against men. I've read that in a couple places. Sure he could get bigger and strong, and he will, but IMO, if you're picking a guy at 8...that shouldn't be a knock on him. What happens when he comes to North America and space is taken away from him? I'm sure the guy is a dynamite hockey player, but in all honesty, I could see him more than many other guys not living up to his draft status. So many factors there.

I personally think the Pens took the player they had the best read on. Can't completely fault them for that. In all honesty, the best route for us at that moment was probably to trade back and pick up more picks, and then pick a guy like Gaunce along with Maatta. Hard to do that though when you have a pick and have to make a decision in 45 seconds.

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06-26-2012, 06:00 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Marcantuoni is right in my backyard here, I know as much about him as anyone in the draft. He has all of the talent we have wanted in a fwd prospect for yrs.

Once people understand the power of Macaroni... people will see the light.



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06-26-2012, 06:06 PM
  #279
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I don't hate the pick but I wish we would've taken Forsberg. By all accounts from people who are draft analysts, Forsberg was the BPA and he would be a top notch prospect in a position we are bare ass bones at in our organization.

I chalk it up to the Pens having terrible European scouting and refusing to go that route with their picks. I guarantee if Maata played for a team in Sweden, we would've passed on him because our scouts wouldn't know jack **** about him.

I'm not going to write off Pouliot because I'm intrigued about him playing with Morrow as a Suter/Weber type combo down the road, but come the **** on Ray. We have SO many ****ing defenseman at this point, including you knowing you were obtaining another one in the Staal trade. You couldn't sacrifice one to take a top 5 rated player in the draft, who is a winger? At 22 you would've likely had your choice of Pouliot or Maata.

For ****s sake...

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06-26-2012, 06:10 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Yes, he does possess high end skill that we could use, but I am sort of concerned about his statistical output.
You can't read into that too much with European players. They traditionally get 4th line minutes when they're younger, etc. Malkin is a perfect example. As a 17 year old, Malkin scored 3 goals in 34 games in the RSL. Doesn't exactly scream out "I'm score" to everyone.

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06-26-2012, 06:40 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
I don't hate the pick but I wish we would've taken Forsberg. By all accounts from people who are draft analysts, Forsberg was the BPA and he would be a top notch prospect in a position we are bare ass bones at in our organization.

I chalk it up to the Pens having terrible European scouting and refusing to go that route with their picks. I guarantee if Maata played for a team in Sweden, we would've passed on him because our scouts wouldn't know jack **** about him.

I'm not going to write off Pouliot because I'm intrigued about him playing with Morrow as a Suter/Weber type combo down the road, but come the **** on Ray. We have SO many ****ing defenseman at this point, including you knowing you were obtaining another one in the Staal trade. You couldn't sacrifice one to take a top 5 rated player in the draft, who is a winger? At 22 you would've likely had your choice of Pouliot or Maata.

For ****s sake...
If their Swedish scouting is so bad why'd they take Sundqvist? The kid plays in a junior league somewhere near the arctic circle.

There seems to be a plethora of reasons to pass on Forsberg. He just didn't have a strong draft year at any level with the exception of the Ivan Hlinka tournament. Whoopty-doo.

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06-26-2012, 07:02 PM
  #282
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If their Swedish scouting is so bad why'd they take Sundqvist?
Since Shero has become GM in 2006, he's made 44 draft selections. Of those 44, only 5 have been non North American players. Of those 5, 2 came over to play in Canadian juniors. Ekbom came over to WBS for 3 games and then went back home.

Prior to Sundqvist (3rd round pick), their previous European selections (Kuhnhackl - 4th round 2010, Pechurskiy (Malkin's buddy) - 5th round 2008, Ekbom - 6th round 2009, and Seppanen - 7th round 2006).

The Penguins do not take risks on draft picks when it comes to Europeans. Kuhnhackl and Pechurskiy came over to play for Windsor and Tri-City. Who knows if Pechurskiy would've even been picked if it weren't for the link to Malkin and now he's back in the KHL.

I would ask the question, if their Swedish scouting was so good, then why have they only taken 2 Swedes in 6 years (a 3rd and 6th round pick)?

It's no secret the Pens have really good scouts in the QMJHL. We make good selections there. If you think we have good European scouting, it doesn't show at this point.

Also, I would argue that Kuhnhackl and Sundqvist play a Shero style of game for his wingers. If they were your traditional high skill non-physical European players, they wouldn't be in the system.

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06-26-2012, 07:08 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Since Shero has become GM in 2006, he's made 44 draft selections. Of those 44, only 5 have been non North American players. Of those 5, 2 came over to play in Canadian juniors. Ekbom came over to WBS for 3 games and then went back home.

Prior to Sundqvist (3rd round pick), their previous European selections (Kuhnhackl - 4th round 2010, Pechurskiy (Malkin's buddy) - 5th round 2008, Ekbom - 6th round 2009, and Seppanen - 7th round 2006).

The Penguins do not take risks on draft picks when it comes to Europeans. Kuhnhackl and Pechurskiy came over to play for Windsor and Tri-City. Who knows if Pechurskiy would've even been picked if it weren't for the link to Malkin and now he's back in the KHL.

I would ask the question, if their Swedish scouting was so good, then why have they only taken 2 Swedes in 6 years (a 3rd and 6th round pick)?

It's no secret the Pens have really good scouts in the QMJHL. We make good selections there. If you think we have good European scouting, it doesn't show at this point.

Also, I would argue that Kuhnhackl and Sundqvist play a Shero style of game for his wingers. If they were your traditional high skill non-physical European players, they wouldn't be in the system.
Because it's a smaller pool to pick from? And who is to say they didn't have Swedes on their draft boards, but those guys were taken before they could pick? These are the things that seem to get lost in this whole "not drafting Euro's" debate.

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06-26-2012, 07:19 PM
  #284
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I had Grigorenko as the BPA on my very unimportant draft list. I had him 2nd best player in the draft, though.
This. Still do not understand why we didn't draft Grigorenko.

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06-26-2012, 07:21 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Because it's a smaller pool to pick from?
Yeah, that's fairly obvious.

Last season there were 983 NHLers who played in the NHL. 221 were from Europe. 22.5%

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06-26-2012, 07:22 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by metalan2 View Post
This. Still do not understand why we didn't draft Grigorenko.
He wasn't a defenseman?


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06-26-2012, 07:46 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by KeepitinPitt View Post
Getting Marcantuoni and Zlobin made me feel a lot better about passing on Forsberg, honestly. I've seen Zlobin and read great things about Marcantuoni and it really seems as though they could be impact players in the future. People like myself can't complain about our lack of depth at wing anymore. We might not have the highest touted prospects but we seem to have a lot of good, productive players and a few with big offensive upside.
Marcantuoni has as much upside as anyone in this draft and he has to be in the top three skaters overall. He can absolutely fly.

He has as much skill as FP, a wicked shot, and he plays without fear (which is why he keeps getting hurt).

I'd actually like to see him slow his game down a little and check his back door, pull up and find the trailer, etc. he is so fast he gets too far ahead of the play at times and just dips his shoulder and takes it to the net... No fear whatsoever. However, if he slows his game down, I think it will help him use his teammates better and not put himself in such vulnerable positions to keep getting so banged up.

It is a catch 22 because the more he plays, the more he'll learn these things... He got hurt in August I believe... Had a concussion, then struggled for awhile and played tentative, eventually got his confidence back, then wrecked his shoulder just as he was starting to light it up.

He is suppose to be a beast in the workout room and it shows on the ice. He supposedly gained 13 lbs since Jan, which from what I recall puts him 25 lbs heavier than he was around this time last season (I believe I read last year he gained 10 or 15 lbs over the Summer, but I could be wrong).

If he stays healthy, he is going to be quite an intriguing prospect to follow.

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06-26-2012, 08:23 PM
  #288
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looks like he'll be paired with Seth Jones:

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He is an offensive defenseman who will spend next season playing alongside Texas Native and 2013 top prospect Seth Jones
Quote:
With Seth Jones joining the Winterhawks next season, most likely as Pouliot's defensive partner, Pouliot is going to continue to contribute highly to their organisation.
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Johnston had suggested that Pouliot could end up paired with 17-year-old rookie Seth Jones to form one of the WHL’s most formidable defensive tandems.

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06-26-2012, 08:43 PM
  #289
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looks like he'll be paired with Seth Jones:
Seth Jones huh, guess we know whom the Penguins will pick in next years draft

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06-26-2012, 09:27 PM
  #290
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Seth Jones huh, guess we know whom the Penguins will pick in next years draft
Even with the defensemen we have in the system, we could only be so lucky to get Seth Jones. He's going to be a phenomenal player. Not much room for scouts to nitpick about with his size/athleticism.

He'll probably be a future Edmonton Oiler.

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06-26-2012, 09:35 PM
  #291
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If their Swedish scouting is so bad why'd they take Sundqvist? The kid plays in a junior league somewhere near the arctic circle.
He's not exactly on a team in the middle of nowhere. Larsson played there as well as Rundblad too I believe. So Skellefteå has been producing some good talent in the last couple of years.

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There seems to be a plethora of reasons to pass on Forsberg. He just didn't have a strong draft year at any level with the exception of the Ivan Hlinka tournament. Whoopty-doo.
Not many players do well for the first couple years of playing with men, a good majority struggle for awhile before adjusting to the play. Forsberg especially struggled because of the type of game he plays. He went from being a big, dominating forward in a junior league to being a small, weak kid in one of the top men's leagues in the country.

I'm not going to say that I don't agree with the Penguins picking Pouliot, because I think he will be a fine defenseman one day. I just think that Forsberg is being overly critiqued for something that all Swedish/Finnish/Russian players go through when they work their way up the ranks. Everything I've seen of Forsberg leads me to believe that he will be a successful player at the NHL level.

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06-26-2012, 09:48 PM
  #292
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He's not exactly on a team in the middle of nowhere. Larsson played there as well as Rundblad too I believe. So Skellefteå has been producing some good talent in the last couple of years.
Skellefteå certainly has become a bit of a pipeline to the NHL of late...but the fact remains that they're in a tiny town extremely close to the Arctic Circle

The Penguins have European scouts...just not many of them and it's obvious that Ray's preferences lay in North America...but the guys (two counts as multiple) we have out there are collecting a paycheck for a reason.

It's surprising to actually see a European player in a European league go in the top three rounds...but I'll be shocked if we see one taken much higher than Sundqvist any time soon. Shero obviously likes his PMDs early on and not a lot of them are coming out of the European leagues. Even with Määtä falling onto his lap this year I doubt he winds up in a Penguins jersey if he was still playing in Jyväskylä instead of on the same team as our 2nd rounder last year.

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06-26-2012, 09:59 PM
  #293
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It's surprising to actually see a European player in a European league go in the top three rounds...but I'll be shocked if we see one taken much higher than Sundqvist any time soon.
When I saw on my phone that the Pens got the 8th pick and Forsberg was still on the board I was sure that this was going to be the year that Shero finally drafted a Swede early in the draft.

It's a shame that Shero doesn't like European players more because there is some real talent that would look really good in a Penguins uniform. I can see why he thinks they are more of a risk that a NA player, but eventually something has to give and there will be a can't miss European prospect that is too good for Shero to pass up. That is my dream at least.

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06-26-2012, 10:03 PM
  #294
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I was doing the same thing. I was jumping up and down about Forsberg...or even Grigorenko...but, alas. Those PMDs with connections to players already in the organization aren't going to draft themselves.

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06-26-2012, 10:03 PM
  #295
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Forsberg struggled to produce against teenagers at the WJCs, too.

I really have nothing against Forsberg, other than that people seem to be blindly trumping him up, so I almost feel obligated to be the counter-point to that. I'd have been satisfied if we drafted him. He's just not perfect, and there's a reason 2 more teams passed on him after we did.

Grigorenko is money though. He has Malkin-like upside, in my opinion.

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06-26-2012, 10:36 PM
  #296
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6 games is hardly a good sample for anything. You neglect to mention he was the youngest person not only on his team at the U20, but would have been the youngest for the US, RU and CAN as well. If you look at the U18 rosters, he would be younger than the average for all of those 4 teams as well.

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06-26-2012, 10:37 PM
  #297
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Grigorenko is money though. He has Malkin-like upside, in my opinion.
I have it on good authority from someone I trust that Grigorenko is probably 20 years old. I guess that's something that happens in smaller towns in Europe (like South American teams at the little league world series). The same guy said he also believes Malkin was closer to 20 when the Pens drafted him.

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06-26-2012, 10:37 PM
  #298
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I really have nothing against Forsberg, other than that people seem to be blindly trumping him up, so I almost feel obligated to be the counter-point to that. I'd have been satisfied if we drafted him. He's just not perfect
I don't think people are blindly trumping him up. Bob McKenzie had him ranked 3rd overall in his final rankings and Bobby Mac does a pretty darn good job analyzing draft prospects. Numerous other analysts who do this for a living had Forsberg ranked high.

I don't think you'll ever find a perfect prospect. Even when Lemieux was drafted, there were people who felt he was lazy and knocked him for that. The most complete prospect that has come along in the past 20 years or so by far was Lindros. There wasn't much for the scouts to knock on him. You see how rare that is for a young guy to have all the tools and be built like a man at 17 years old. Even if Yakupov would've been on the board at 8, people could knock him for all kinds of things and say he's not perfect.

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06-26-2012, 10:39 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I have it on good authority from someone I trust that Grigorenko is probably 20 years old. I guess that's something that happens in smaller towns in Europe (like South American teams at the little league world series). The same guy said he also believes Malkin was closer to 20 when the Pens drafted him.
Christ. Slava Fetisov must've been 90 when he retired then.


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06-26-2012, 10:49 PM
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Even if Yakupov would've been on the board at 8, people could knock him for all kinds of things and say he's not perfect.
Then they'd be incredibly wrong. Yakupov was the best player in this draft by a nautical mile. If he had gone any lower than first overall then the Oilers should be relegated.

When people look back at the 2012 Draft it'll be Nail...then everyone else.

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