But if - as you suggested - they defer to picking defensemen because they've shown they can develop them (and shy away from selecting a highly-skilled forward because they don't have confidence they can develop him), then that would go beyond BPA, and be a serious problem that would need to get addressed rather than avoided.
Just a question about any defense-man being pinned as the BPA...
How often has the NHL (ie any team) actually identified the BPA on defense and picked him? How many times has the best defenseman in a draft been picked before any other Dman?
The point is that the entire NHL has been very poor at identifying who the good defenders are, so what makes us think the Pens are any better at it? I stand by a more sound methodology of taking forwards only with top 10 picks. Save your gambles on goaltenders and defensemen for the later rounds.
Almost all the forward talent is gobbled up early on, but elite defenders and goaltenders still creep in the late 1st/2nd rounds. You are generally wasting a top 10 pick on a defender IMO. Too much risk that he is just a standard NHL defenseman (see Komaserik, Bouwmeester, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson ). A top 10 forward is much more likely a fringe all star on average (which is a great player). Top 10 picked defenders are generally just NHLers.
Ask yourself where Chara, Lindstrom, Weber, or even Letang were drafted (all arguably BPA on defense)?
Just a question about any defense-man being pinned as the BPA...
How often has the NHL (ie any team) actually identified the BPA on defense and picked him? How many times has the best defenseman in a draft been picked before any other Dman?
The point is that the entire NHL has been very poor at identifying who the good defenders are, so what makes us think the Pens are any better at it? I stand by a more sound methodology of taking forwards only with top 10 picks. Save your gambles on goaltenders and defensemen for the later rounds.
Almost all the forward talent is gobbled up early on, but elite defenders and goaltenders still creep in the late 1st/2nd rounds. You are generally wasting a top 10 pick on a defender IMO. Too much risk that he is just a standard NHL defenseman (see Komaserik, Bouwmeester, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson ). A top 10 forward is much more likely a fringe all star on average (which is a great player). Top 10 picked defenders are generally just NHLers.
Ask yourself where Chara, Lindstrom, Weber, or even Letang were drafted (all arguably BPA on defense)?
How Sanny Lindstrom lasted til the 4th round will always be a mystery.
Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens, D. Hatcher, R. Suter, Doughty and Pietrangelo were all top 10 picks. Conversely, I can name a lot of top 10 forwards who were busts. I see the point you're trying to make, but you are doing some serious generalizing.
The WHL is playing pretty bad... the game has no flow and the Russians are forechecking pretty hard. I'm not impressed with any of the D so far (including Rielly, Dumba and Pouliot). However, we're not even half way through the game yet...
He's playing pretty bad... just as bad as Mat Dumba.
Yep. It's easy to see why the Pens liked him so much - he's a fast, fluid skater, great in transition, and has a very high offensive IQ.
But...he needs a lot of work. He's not strong or strong on his skates, he takes inefficient checking angles, and he wilted under hard forechecking pressure. A lot of that can be fixed with good coaching though, and he's smart enough to figure the rest out on his own.
Aside from the last turnover (which the d-man in me wants to blame on the flat-footed forwards that didn't get open) I think Pouliot's been fine.
I dunno. He got muscled pretty good by Kapustin leading up to the previous goal, and just kind of stood around with Rielly on the goal by Sigarev (even if a bad line change led to zero backchecking forwards).
Not a real assured performance, even if none of the offensive d prospects look very good in this one.
I really didn't care how he played. It would be over analyzing to try to judge any player on one game. He's a prospect with tools that the Pens brass really like but also has a ways to go in his development before he puts it all together. I think we knew that before this game though.
I really didn't care how he played. It would be over analyzing to try to judge any player on one game. He's a prospect with tools that the Pens brass really like but also has a ways to go in his development before he puts it all together. I think we knew that before this game though.
I too thought Pouliot was a little shaky, but over the years, I have come to value Jacob's opinion via prospect development over mine or any of you. So Pouliot looks fine :-)
Caught a little bit of the game tonight on TV just because Pouliot was playing...
Absolutely brutal, from what I saw. Not going to judge him off this though. Personally, I still hate the pick. Thought we had a chance to get an elite forward prospect and we blew it.
Caught a little bit of the game tonight on TV just because Pouliot was playing...
Absolutely brutal, from what I saw. Not going to judge him off this though. Personally, I still hate the pick. Thought we had a chance to get an elite forward prospect and we blew it.
I really didn't care how he played. It would be over analyzing to try to judge any player on one game. He's a prospect with tools that the Pens brass really like but also has a ways to go in his development before he puts it all together. I think we knew that before this game though.
Not sure what the value of ignoring his performance would be? It was a fair barometric reading of how his defensive skills look against stiffer competition. He looked completely overwhelmed and has A LOT of work to do to get better. His offensive skills are fine, I guess.
Yeah last night wasn't a good showing for DP. It's just one game so I wouldn't put too much stock in it but on the flip side, if he had potted a pair of goals this board would be penciling him into the lineup like he's some kind of Noah Welch or something.
Love the pick or hate it, we're still years away from finding out if Pouliot was worth his draft position.
Patience and multiple viewings...that's my prescription for the board.
Yeah last night wasn't a good showing for DP. It's just one game so I wouldn't put too much stock in it but on the flip side, if he had potted a pair of goals this board would be penciling him into the lineup like he's some kind of Noah Welch or something.
Love the pick or hate it, we're still years away from finding out if Pouliot was worth his draft position.
Patience and multiple viewings...that's my prescription for the board.
I agree.
Too many people rush to judgement on these sort of things especially because they didn't get what they wanted (forward prospect). Reality is what you said. It will be years before we know what we have in this kid.
we have 2 years to know where this pick goes. he showed some top notch hockey IQ and definitely could QB a PP. He needs to get stronger, he flat out got out muscled a few times. He definitely looks like he could be another Letang at some point.
I still wish we would have picked Forsberg.
But we do have to keep in mind that we don't have a problem scoring goals currently. In fact we led the league in doing so last season. What we do lack, (whether it's personnel or system, or wrong people for system is another topic) is reliable defense.
Yep. It's easy to see why the Pens liked him so much - he's a fast, fluid skater, great in transition, and has a very high offensive IQ.
But...he needs a lot of work. He's not strong or strong on his skates, he takes inefficient checking angles, and he wilted under hard forechecking pressure. A lot of that can be fixed with good coaching though, and he's smart enough to figure the rest out on his own.
Still, he's a project.
Agree and disagree on some points. I didn't see the last period, so perhaps I missed something, but...
I never saw him take any bad angles to the puck carrier. He kept his gaps, had a good stick and was angling his assignments outside most of the time. He even stripped Yakupov of the puck twice 1-1 in space.
DP won a majority of his 1-1 battles along the board and quickly moved the puck out of the zone. I never saw him wilt under any forechecking pressure, unless Russia had a heavy FC in the third and he wilted then, but I doubt that being up by a few goals.
I get where the comment is coming about not being strong on his skates because of his two glaring mistakes that lead to goals, but that should come as he matures.
He was at fault for two of the three goals. On the second goal, his pivot got caught chasing the post and didn't pick up the late man... No idea what the guy was thinking. That goal was all on the pivot.
On the third goal he bounced off his man and lost his balance. As was the case throughout the game, the W fwds didn't pick up their assignments and the goal was scored in the slot off the shot from his assignment.
The fourth goal was definitely on him, but Yakupov caught him from behind with a great burst of speed to force the turnover. Credit Yakupov with a really nice play. That was the only turnover he had in the first two periods and before that he did a fantastic job of managing the puck, unlike Rielly who was a turnover machine.
I thought he easily outplayed Rielly, who had a poor game. The blueliners were left out to dry all game by the W fwds who did a piss poor job of backchecking, picking up their assignments and generating pressure.
Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 11-16-2012 at 08:44 AM.
Yeah last night wasn't a good showing for DP. It's just one game so I wouldn't put too much stock in it but on the flip side, if he had potted a pair of goals this board would be penciling him into the lineup like he's some kind of Noah Welch or something.
Which is silly. If you'd had only seen, say, Morrow play at the Canada WJC camp last year, you'd think he'd be a bottom-pairing defenseman at best. He had a bad showing. But if you only saw him in pre-season last year, you'd think he was god.
So yeah, like you said. I prefer to make my evaluations based off a larger sample size.
