Right. Sort of like, in their system with their scouting record, they can be 80% sure a D they pick early is going to become a stud / very reliable player / a good trade asset. Whereas if they drafted a F with upside, it would be much more of a crap-shoot unless you're trading up for a sure thing (someone like Eberle, Seguin, etc). Or like the Blues did with Tarasenko. There was no one in this year's draft at position 8 who is remotely comparable though. After the first 3 picks, the Tarasenko types (Yakupov and his homey) were gone. Offensively this was a very thin draft. In 2010 Tarasenko was picked at [16] so that draft was relatively deep in terms of big offensive talents that were more or less a sure thing.
So they go with the D and trade to get the 0% risk forward or sign one if they think they can during the summer.
WRT to drafting BDA, I think that's just in the nature of fans. Fans always want to see someone picked who has offensive firepower. Nothing wrong with that.
Another thing is that defense is such a taught position that if you get a player with at least some skill a team can turn him into an NHL player. If a F's scoring doesn't come through there aren't many that will change their game to become a grinder.
Or put another way you can't teach a guy with mediocre vision and shooting skills, to have great vision and shooting skills, while you can teach a guy with good skating ability, but bad positioning, to have great positioning.
Given that Murray will probably require surgery for his injured shoulder and be out of the WJC for Team Canada (& probably out for the season), I wonder how this will impact Pouliot's chances of making the team or at least being invited to tryout... This could only be positive for Derrick.
Now, all we need is the remaining good PMD (eg. Murphy, Rielly, Dumba...) to get injured.... LOL
Yah I'm not rooting for young kids to get hurt so our prospect can play in a meaningless (in the grand scheme of things) junior tournament. DP will be OK either way.
Yah but you don't draft an Orpik replacement (one dimensional shut-down guy whose game is based around physical play more than skill) in the Top 10 picks. You draft him in the 3rd or 4th round ideally.
Agreed. And it's not like the cupboard is bare.
If he makes it to the NHL, Ruopp is a guy in the system who plays that type of game (yes, I know it's a decent-sized "if," but I liked what I saw from him during the minicamp over summer). And although Dumoulin's calling card isn't big hits, he has decent size that ought to be able to help clear the net ... so I'm not panicked about life after Orpik.
Yah I'm not rooting for young kids to get hurt so our prospect can play in a meaningless (in the grand scheme of things) junior tournament. DP will be OK either way.
I do not want nor want to have to rely on others to get injured for Pouliot to make it. Its just the flip side of a bad situation.
I hope he gets an opportunity as an invite just so it can help boost his confidence a little.
Yah I'm not rooting for young kids to get hurt so our prospect can play in a meaningless (in the grand scheme of things) junior tournament. DP will be OK either way.
I wasn't aware that his confidence was in question / waning, but yah it certainly can't hurt for a kid to play in that tournament.
He probably didn't have any confidence issues until the Subway Super Series... and we all know how that turned out. That's just speculation on my part but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.
He's recently stated in an interview that one of his main objectives this year is to make Team Canada @ the WJC. If he doesn't even get an invite, it'll be hard to imagine that it would not affect his confidence to a certain extent.
Not really, to be honest. I mean, it's team Canada, in a lockout year, and Pouliot was even the 5th Canadian d-man drafted in 2012 alone.
Yes but now that Murray is out of the equation, it should make it a little easier for him to get in and the door should creek open a little bit for him...
Yes but now that Murray is out of the equation, it should make it a little easier for him to get in and the door should creek open a little bit for him...
To be honest, he doesn't really have a chance unless a couple offense-oriented defensemen ahead of him on the depth chart go down. Guys like Reinhart and Percy would be the likeliest options to replace a steady, defense-oriented guy like Murray.
To be honest, he doesn't really have a chance unless a couple offense-oriented defensemen ahead of him on the depth chart go down. Guys like Reinhart and Percy would be the likeliest options to replace a steady, defense-oriented guy like Murray.
I agree but it just sucks that he probably won't make the team. I hope he'll at least get an invite.
Do you guys think its a possibility that he'll get invited?
I imagine Pouliot staring at his phone all day and wondering why the cool kids won't call him and ask to hang out. He'll even bring the beer, please just give him a chance, please, he'll be the designated driver too. Just call him, oh maybe they forgot his number, yeah that's it DP, they wanted to call you but couldn't remember your number. Maybe next year when you're the oldest kid around you can impress the younger CHL players and be the cool older brother who brings the beer.
Have any of you ever wondered if Shero considered to inquire about Ryan Murphy instead of including the 8th Overall Selection in the Staal deal? Perhaps Shero were waiting for the Canes turn to pick and as a condition in the deal, Shero wanted the 8th Overall choice only if Pouliot was available. If not, perhaps Ryan Murphy would've had to be included instead.
Personally, if I had the choice, I'd rather have Murphy given that his offensive ceiling is higher and he's closer to the Big Show as well. Also, he's righthanded unlike the remaining of our promising D prospect pool.
Have any of you ever wondered if Shero considered to inquire about Ryan Murphy instead of including the 8th Overall Selection in the Staal deal? Perhaps Shero were waiting for the Canes turn to pick and as a condition in the deal, Shero wanted the 8th Overall choice only if Pouliot was available. If not, perhaps Ryan Murphy would've had to be included instead.
Personally, if I had the choice, I'd rather have Murphy given that his offensive ceiling is higher and he's closer to the Big Show as well. Also, he's righthanded unlike the remaining of our promising D prospect pool.
I think you answered your own question. If he has higher upside and is closer to making an impact, Shero probably asked about him and then settled for either Dumoulin or the 8th instead.
Have any of you ever wondered if Shero considered to inquire about Ryan Murphy instead of including the 8th Overall Selection in the Staal deal? Perhaps Shero were waiting for the Canes turn to pick and as a condition in the deal, Shero wanted the 8th Overall choice only if Pouliot was available. If not, perhaps Ryan Murphy would've had to be included instead.
Personally, if I had the choice, I'd rather have Murphy given that his offensive ceiling is higher and he's closer to the Big Show as well. Also, he's righthanded unlike the remaining of our promising D prospect pool.
I would actually bet money that the Canes were trying to put Murphy into this deal -- probably instead of the #8 pick -- and that the Pens said "No Thanks".
After watching Murphy a lot last season, I think the likelihood of him becoming a top-4 defenseman at the NHL level who can play even mediocre defense is not very good. I think he is very poor defensively and pretty soft. His size is a significant issue, because he does not make up for it with elite hockey sense (i.e. GoGo), great competitiveness (i.e. Ryan Ellis), nor physical play (i.e. Stephane Robidas).
Sure: Pouliot may have less pure "offensive" upside than Murphy, but I think he has a much better chance to become a better all-around player, who will play more minutes and more situations, which also means he could put up very good numbers and make a bigger overall impact, as opposed to Murphy, who may be more of a pure PP guy, not very versatile, and cost his team a lot of goals against. I think Murphy may not end up being much more than a slightly better version of M.A. Bergeron.
We can argue as to wheather the Pens made the best choice at #8 with Pouliot, but I'll take him over Ryan Murphy at this point in a heartbeat.
I think you answered your own question. If he has higher upside and is closer to making an impact, Shero probably asked about him and then settled for either Dumoulin or the 8th instead.
I answered my own question because I wanted to give my opinion about it. I'm asking the others what they think...
I would actually bet money that the Canes were trying to put Murphy into this deal -- probably instead of the #8 pick -- and that the Pens said "No Thanks".
After watching Murphy a lot last season, I think the likelihood of him becoming a top-4 defenseman at the NHL level who can play even mediocre defense is not very good. I think he is very poor defensively and pretty soft. His size is a significant issue, because he does not make up for it with elite hockey sense (i.e. GoGo), great competitiveness (i.e. Ryan Ellis), nor physical play (i.e. Stephane Robidas).
Sure: Pouliot may have less pure "offensive" upside than Murphy, but I think he has a much better chance to become a better all-around player, who will play more minutes and more situations, which also means he could put up very good numbers and make a bigger overall impact, as opposed to Murphy, who may be more of a pure PP guy, not very versatile, and cost his team a lot of goals against. I think Murphy may not end up being much more than a slightly better version of M.A. Bergeron.
We can argue as to wheather the Pens made the best choice at #8 with Pouliot, but I'll take him over Ryan Murphy at this point in a heartbeat.
Good point. I guess only time will tell but if ask some people on the prospects board, their opinion may differ. Not implying that you are but I would assume that some of us on the Pens Board may subconsciously be biased with our prospects. I tend to do that sometimes (once again, not saying that you are, just generalizing).
I would actually bet money that the Canes were trying to put Murphy into this deal -- probably instead of the #8 pick -- and that the Pens said "No Thanks".
After watching Murphy a lot last season, I think the likelihood of him becoming a top-4 defenseman at the NHL level who can play even mediocre defense is not very good. I think he is very poor defensively and pretty soft. His size is a significant issue, because he does not make up for it with elite hockey sense (i.e. GoGo), great competitiveness (i.e. Ryan Ellis), nor physical play (i.e. Stephane Robidas).
Sure: Pouliot may have less pure "offensive" upside than Murphy, but I think he has a much better chance to become a better all-around player, who will play more minutes and more situations, which also means he could put up very good numbers and make a bigger overall impact, as opposed to Murphy, who may be more of a pure PP guy, not very versatile, and cost his team a lot of goals against. I think Murphy may not end up being much more than a slightly better version of M.A. Bergeron.
We can argue as to wheather the Pens made the best choice at #8 with Pouliot, but I'll take him over Ryan Murphy at this point in a heartbeat.
The lynch pin of this deal for a long time was the inclusion of Ryan Murphy. Once it was decided by Carolina brass that Brandon Sutter could move in a deal for Staal, it became a matter of negotiating the rest of the pieces obviously. Carolina is astronomical high on Murphy, for right or wrong it remains to be seen, and were not all that keen on including him. Carolina had not identified a target at 8th overall that would compel them to keep the pick, other than those that presumably went 1-7th, and likely didn't pull the trigger on the deal until all their own targets were taken and Pittsburgh's target was still available. If something inexplicable happened and Yakupov slipped, they'd want to be there to capitalize.
The thing about Murphy is that, as you said, the risk is incredibly obvious. His deficiencies have never been hidden. Since Don Cherry put him on notice at 16 years old and told his viewership that he was going to be the 1st overall pick in his draft class, the eyes of scouts have never been far away from him. What he does possess is that intangible offensive talent and next level skating that draws comparisons to some of the greats. He'll never be a total shut down defender in the NHL, but some have said that a Paul Coffey type career wouldn't be out of the question.
Pouliot is a great pick, but Carolina was calculated in their risk to not trade Murphy.
