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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:47 AM
  #751
jmelm
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I've seen nothing but arguments & bantering going back and forth the last few pages, yet absolutely NOTHING about the actual topic at hand: how Pouliot is actually performing as we speak (i.e. his development).


First, let me just say, as an aside to people who are complaining that DP didn't make the Junior team (which is absolutely stacked, had no reason to make it, and other "top" Dmen drafted in 1st or early 2nd round this year didn't even get an invite) -- do you realize the considerable endorsement of his play by Hockey Canada to even give him an invite to the pre-tournament camp after not even being invited to the summer camp? Do you guys even realize how rare this is to happen? The mere fact that he was invited, regardless of whether he was cut, after not having been invited in the summer is a pretty big compliment to his play this season.


Second: why is nobody talking about how Pouliot has performed since being sent home from camp? There has obviously been no sulking going on since he returned. In his first game, last night, he got 3 assists and was named the #1 star. Tonight, he scored a goal and was +4 in a 4-2 victory. That sounds like a pretty darned good, motived player -- and that's the type of performance, character and competitiveness you want to see for a kid who has just been disappointed by "losing".


So get a grip, DP & Pens bashers, and start showing this player some of the respect he is showing he deserves.

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12-16-2012, 12:58 AM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I've seen nothing but arguments & bantering going back and forth the last few pages, yet absolutely NOTHING about the actual topic at hand: how Pouliot is actually performing as we speak (i.e. his development).


First, let me just say, as an aside to people who are complaining that DP didn't make the Junior team (which is absolutely stacked, had no reason to make it, and other "top" Dmen drafted in 1st or early 2nd round this year didn't even get an invite) -- do you realize the considerable endorsement of his play by Hockey Canada to even give him an invite to the pre-tournament camp after not even being invited to the summer camp? Do you guys even realize how rare this is to happen? The mere fact that he was invited, regardless of whether he was cut, after not having been invited in the summer is a pretty big compliment to his play this season.


Second: why is nobody talking about how Pouliot has performed since being sent home from camp? There has obviously been no sulking going on since he returned. In his first game, last night, he got 3 assists and was named the #1 star. Tonight, he scored a goal and was +4 in a 4-2 victory. That sounds like a pretty darned good, motived player -- and that's the type of performance, character and competitiveness you want to see for a kid who has just been disappointed by "losing".


So get a grip, DP & Pens bashers, and start showing this player some of the respect he is showing he deserves.
I agree with this post 100%. A lot of people on this board are still caught up on this pick, and are regarding it as a bad one. It has been like 6 months. If you're bashing this pick then you clearly lack...well a lot of hockey knowledge...Maybe they're setting themselves up for the hindsight argument, but DePo is a good hockey player. Just let the kid develop and reserve your judgments for later. The draft is over. All these people can play GM and say they'd take Grigs or FF and that it'd be the RIGHT decision, but in reality, you aren't making those decisions so have a little faith in Shero and the staff that brought us our 3rd cup instead of playing keyboard GM.

I'm all for reasonable arguments, but people don't present them. Instead, they just bash the pick and stat watch. It's actually kind of funny....

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12-16-2012, 01:18 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So it's ok to assume that the Pens scouts are right but not ok to assume that the scouts that release rankings are right?

That seems pretty hypocritical Jiggy.
Like I said earlier -- who would you trust more? Scouting services have nothing on the line, really. Scouts for teams, well, it's a different situation. I don't think it's a stretch to say I'd put more stock into the people who actually make calls on drafting players, as opposed to those whose task is to just make a "guide" more or less, which really has no bearing on anything.

Teams aren't going, "Well, he have player X at 17th overall, but CSS has him at 9th overall, so maybe we should move him up a few spots." Doesn't happen.

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12-16-2012, 01:23 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Of course not. I hope nobody got that impression from my post.
I dunno, did they?

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I don't recall saying anything about either of them being "can't miss". Very, very few prospects outside of the lotto are 100% wart-free.
I talked about why they slipped, no need for me to type it out again. Too many posters want to talk about DP faults and gloss over the red flags these two threw up.

I find that quite.... Odd.

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How many big, talented centers have we seen this written about? Probably all of them at one time or another, from Beliveau to Lecavalier to Lemieux to Malkin.
I'd be careful with this argument and the names you are using. I'll let it slide though.

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As for wilting when the going gets tough, the same was said about Couturier (another big center) going into the 2011 draft because of his uninspired playoffs. We've since seen differently.

The bottom line is that you're never going to draft a huge center with gamebreaking talent and a relentless bulldog mentality at #8 overall. Elite 18 year old talent at that spot is going to have a chink or two in the armour, so you have to determine whether those teenaged blemishes are too much of a risk. The Pens did. We'll see if they were right.
Then we can say Coots doesn't wilt. That's all we really know, isn't it?

We have no idea how Grigs will handle getting punished by NHL blueliners.

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One man's "safe" is another man's "well-rounded". Similar claims were leveled at Toews and Landeskog.
For every name you throw out, we both know I can throw out three busted high picks who scouts had questions about their ability to produce offense at the next level. It's the nature of the draft and not a game I think you want to play.

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That would really be from hindsight though, wouldn't it?
You call it hindsight, I call it patience.

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C'mon Jig. I don't think most here have access to Penguins upper-management, and even if they did, it's not really reasonable to expect somebody to go up to a person they don't know well and start criticizing them, let alone if they're part of an organization they support.
Sorry, not going to back off that statement. People say absurd things because there are no ramifications.

I have no problem with someone wanting another player. I do have a problem with calling DP a bad pick when it has only been 5 months. Especially when the kid is doing everything you could realistically want him to do.

Its absurd.

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I dunno. Maybe you're different and would waltz up to Bylsma out of the blue and tell him it was idiotic to call up Chris Conner in the 2011 playoffs. It's not the sort of thing I'd have the inclination to do.
There is a difference between criticizing something without any real merit that hasn't come to pass and rubbing salt in a wound. I'm pretty sure DB knows when he ****s up and doesn't need fans to waltz up and tell him.

*****ing about DB not adjusting in the Flyer series is reasonable. You know he blew it. It's a fact.

*****ing that Shero blew a pick right after a selection or 5 months later is ridiculous and there is no common sense behind it.

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I absolutely believe that McKenzie's list was a cross-section of scouts' honest opinions - I don't know why we should believe otherwise from the most reliable source in the business. Of course, there's no shortage of dissension among scouts even at their own draft tables.
Do you honestly think any team affiliated scout would give Bmac the true org rankings?

I guess if they wanted a new job, maybe.

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12-16-2012, 01:30 AM
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So it's ok to assume that the Pens scouts are right but not ok to assume that the scouts that release rankings are right?

That seems pretty hypocritical Jiggy.
I've explained it to you on several occassions and you act obtuse each time.

No scout in his right mind would list out their true org rankings for Bmac or anyone else.

The org rankings are wildly different than what we read. Especially in a year like this when 6-20 were all one big cluster.

I saw a number of rankings that had Maatta in the 10-12 spot and he fell ten spots lower.

That should tell you all you need to know.

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12-16-2012, 02:35 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
Like I said earlier -- who would you trust more? Scouting services have nothing on the line, really. Scouts for teams, well, it's a different situation. I don't think it's a stretch to say I'd put more stock into the people who actually make calls on drafting players, as opposed to those whose task is to just make a "guide" more or less, which really has no bearing on anything.

Teams aren't going, "Well, he have player X at 17th overall, but CSS has him at 9th overall, so maybe we should move him up a few spots." Doesn't happen.
TBH, I trust a list that is made by compiling multiple scouts rankings like Mac's list over a single scout's or team's list. One team or scout can fall in/out of love with prospects for any number or reasons (like they were seen a bunch by a team that drafted your D partner). Taking the ave from a bunch of lists will hopefully weed out those outliers.

What about the NHL scouts that were laughing about the DP pick that IHWR was talking about? Do you trust their opinions over Shero's?

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12-16-2012, 02:39 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I dunno, did they?
Not sure where you're going with this. I don't think anything I said would insinuate it, but please, point out where I might've done so.

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I talked about why they slipped, no need for me to type it out again. Too many posters want to talk about DP faults and gloss over the red flags these two threw up.

I find that quite.... Odd.
Again, very few players outside the lotto are can't miss. It's all about risk/reward, and most objective evaluations suggest Grigs and Forsberg were better bets than Pouliot.

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I'd be careful with this argument and the names you are using. I'll let it slide though.
There's nothing to let slide. Big, skilled centers are regularly criticized for indifferent/lazy play, including generational talents. Comes with the territory.

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Then we can say Coots doesn't wilt. That's all we really know, isn't it?

We have no idea how Grigs will handle getting punished by NHL blueliners.
Nobody knows how any draft pick will react to NHL calibre opposition until they are.

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For every name you throw out, we both know I can throw out three busted high picks who scouts had questions about their ability to produce offense at the next level. It's the nature of the draft and not a game I think you want to play.
The proof will be in the pudding. I have no problem throwing my vote behind this line of reasoning.

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You call it hindsight, I call it patience.
It's "patience" to criticize a pick after it's already done developing?

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Sorry, not going to back off that statement. People say absurd things because there are no ramifications.

I have no problem with someone wanting another player. I do have a problem with calling DP a bad pick when it has only been 5 months. Especially when the kid is doing everything you could realistically want him to do.

Its absurd.
It's no more absurd than agreeing with the Pens' choice after 5 months. People who have watched Pouliot and developed dissenting opinions are no less justified than those who tow the party line.

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There is a difference between criticizing something without any real merit that hasn't come to pass and rubbing salt in a wound. I'm pretty sure DB knows when he ****s up and doesn't need fans to waltz up and tell him.

*****ing about DB not adjusting in the Flyer series is reasonable. You know he blew it. It's a fact.

*****ing that Shero blew a pick right after a selection or 5 months later is ridiculous and there is no common sense behind it.
Whether it was right or wrong isn't what we're discussing. We're discussing whether it's reasonable to confront a stranger and criticize them for a move we disagree with as soon as we see them.

Personally, I doubt you'd do it, whether it was a point of contention on HF or not. That doesn't make you a coward, it makes you a reasonable human being. You'd come off as a dick if the first thing you said to a Penguins official was a criticism of a minor-league call-up, or a contentious draft selection.

I do think that it would be a great question for Shero though, if a reporter would ask if putting such a high priority on defensemen and players coming up through certain programs could run the risk of overlooking BPAs for the sake of familiarity.

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Do you honestly think any team affiliated scout would give Bmac the true org rankings?

I guess if they wanted a new job, maybe.
Where did anyone say they were giving out organizational rankings? AFAIK, each scout was giving out personal rankings.


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12-16-2012, 09:12 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Not sure where you're going with this. I don't think anything I said would insinuate it, but please, point out where I might've done so.
I'm not insinuating anything. I didn't have you in mind with my statement, but I can't speak for others, obviously.

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Again, very few players outside the lotto are can't miss. It's all about risk/reward, and most objective evaluations suggest Grigs and Forsberg were better bets than Pouliot.
People continue to miss this point: they were not ranked above DP on the Pen's list. Either accept that, or don't.

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There's nothing to let slide. Big, skilled centers are regularly criticized for indifferent/lazy play, including generational talents. Comes with the territory.
Then I can throw out names such as Coffey, Housley, Carlyle, and Niedermayer as undersized puck movers who were criticized early on for not having prototypical size/being physically dominant and had great success at the NHL level.

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Nobody knows how any draft pick will react to NHL calibre opposition until they are.
Which is exactly why you wait and see how these kids pan out.

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It's "patience" to criticize a pick after it's already done developing?
It takes patience to wait out his development.

I don't feel the need to call out Shero's picks early on, so I can point back in several yrs and tell everyone how right I was. I'm not big on using "prospect hindsight", because it serves no purpose.

Let me pound my chest how I was right, eventhough it hurts the org I follow. Great philosophy.

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It's no more absurd than agreeing with the Pens' choice after 5 months. People who have watched Pouliot and developed dissenting opinions are no less justified than those who tow the party line.
I see a kid doing everything you could ask from a pick of his pedigree and am quite pleased with the pick. I feel he has a chance to be an impact player if he keeps progressing.

Yet, we have others who say he is a bad pick, because he isn't the guy they wanted (and those guys of course are going to be successful and DP isn't.) Somehow he isn't producing enough points in a league where it is notoriously tough for off. blueliners to put up huge numbers. A league where an NHL point machine like Green could barely avg a point a game.

You tell me which of these opinions are absurd or not.

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Whether it was right or wrong isn't what we're discussing. We're discussing whether it's reasonable to confront a stranger and criticize them for a move we disagree with as soon as we see them.
No, we are discussing if those people with an opinion, based on zero facts, would have the courage to say to Shero or DP he was a bad pick.

Nothing more, nothing less.

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Personally, I doubt you'd do it, whether it was a point of contention on HF or not. That doesn't make you a coward, it makes you a reasonable human being. You'd come off as a dick if the first thing you said to a Penguins official was a criticism of a minor-league call-up, or a contentious draft selection.

I do think that it would be a great question for Shero though, if a reporter would ask if putting such a high priority on defensemen and players coming up through certain programs could run the risk of overlooking BPAs for the sake of familiarity.
No, I wouldn't rub salt in DB wounds, it would be idiotic. Which is why I tried to defend him all Summer, because no one is perfect. As I maintain, he isn't done growing as a coach. It's obvious he is making mistakes/quite stubborn and it's reasonable to criticize him for it on here.

However, it's not justifiable to criticize a player like DP and suggest he is a bad pick, when again, he is doing everything you could reasonably ask from him. I could understand, but wouldn't agree, if he was having a bad year.... But that isn't even remotely the case.

There is a distinct difference between these criticisms.

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Where did anyone say they were giving out organizational rankings? AFAIK, each scout was giving out personal rankings.
They aren't giving out org rankings. That is my entire point.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 12-16-2012 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Poor ipad grammar
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12-16-2012, 09:43 AM
  #759
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I do see what Jiggy is saying, and his point about Maatta is pretty valid, IMO. People had Maatta ranked in the 10-12 range, but he lasted until the 20's. Another funny thing is, Forsberg and Grigorenko were ranked in the top 5-7 picks in the draft, and both were passed on by 2 and 3 more teams after we picked.

I also subscribe to the thought that no organizations scouting staff would just willingly give their rankings out to just anybody, especially a member of the media.

I think Bob McKenzie is as legit as they come, but I'd hardly use his rankings as some sort of gospel. I mean, he had Pouliot ranked 17th, and Maatta ranked 10. If Maatta was really the 10th best player in the draft, he wouldn't have dropped another 10 spots. I personally think that Pouliot was going to go before we picked again, regardless of where he was ranked in a vacuum by scouts. The skillset he brings to the table is too valuable in today's NHL.

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12-16-2012, 10:31 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I do see what Jiggy is saying, and his point about Maatta is pretty valid, IMO. People had Maatta ranked in the 10-12 range, but he lasted until the 20's. Another funny thing is, Forsberg and Grigorenko were ranked in the top 5-7 picks in the draft, and both were passed on by 2 and 3 more teams after we picked.

I also subscribe to the thought that no organizations scouting staff would just willingly give their rankings out to just anybody, especially a member of the media.

I think Bob McKenzie is as legit as they come, but I'd hardly use his rankings as some sort of gospel. I mean, he had Pouliot ranked 17th, and Maatta ranked 10. If Maatta was really the 10th best player in the draft, he wouldn't have dropped another 10 spots. I personally think that Pouliot was going to go before we picked again, regardless of where he was ranked in a vacuum by scouts. The skillset he brings to the table is too valuable in today's NHL.
Actually, as a matter of fact, Forsberg was ranked 3rd and Grigs was ranked 4th. Obviously a team must have seen something bad to not pick them and let them slide 8 or so picks each. And I don't see why the hate for Pouliot, he's doing better than Morrow did last year, and no one had a problem with Morrow.

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12-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #761
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Actually, as a matter of fact, Forsberg was ranked 3rd and Grigs was ranked 4th. Obviously a team must have seen something bad to not pick them and let them slide 8 or so picks each. And I don't see why the hate for Pouliot, he's doing better than Morrow did last year, and no one had a problem with Morrow.
Morrow was a late round pick. DP was an 8th overall.

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12-16-2012, 11:40 AM
  #762
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Morrow also feeled a need in our prospect pool- and now a year later we have more D prospects than we know what to do with. I think that has a lot to do with the negative perception surrounding Pouliot (which is unfair).

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12-16-2012, 11:52 AM
  #763
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If Grigs or Forsberg turn out to better players it's Staal, Toews all over again.

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12-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
People continue to miss this point: they were not ranked above DP on the Pen's list. Either accept that, or don't.
I assure you, no one is missing that point.

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Then I can throw out names such as Coffey, Housley, Carlyle, and Niedermayer as undersized puck movers who were criticized early on for not having prototypical size/being physically dominant and had great success at the NHL level.
Is anyone here arguing against picking Pouliot because of his size?

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Which is exactly why you wait and see how these kids pan out.
Better not have an opinion about prospects on a prospect site until they're done being prospects.

Nothing's chiseled in stone. We just play it safe and familiar a little too often for my liking, and I think picking Pouliot over other more highly touted players (based on personal viewings and everything we've heard from scouting cross references, independent services, and IHWR's firsthand account) may come back to bite us in the ass, especially considering it's likely going to be the last top 10 pick we see during this era.

Perennial contenders only get so many opportunities to inject gamebreaking talent into their systems. We spent ours on a player very few would argue was BPA material before he was picked. I like what I've seen from Pouliot, he's a very good prospect, but the issue is whether he was the best available.

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I don't feel the need to call out Shero's picks early on, so I can point back in several yrs and tell everyone how right I was. I'm not big on using "prospect hindsight", because it serves no purpose.

Let me pound my chest how I was right, eventhough it hurts the org I follow. Great philosophy.
Jig, you go off regularly on which players the Pens will regret calling up or letting go on waivers. We all analyze and criticize what the pros are doing.

I also missed where I was rooting against Pouliot. I'd love for him to prove the Pens' reach was worth it.

But if he we ended up passing on a huge talent, maybe some reflection will cause the brass to re-evaluate how they determine their BPA, which will only make the team better.

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I see a kid doing everything you could ask from a pick of his pedigree and am quite pleased with the pick. I feel he has a chance to be an impact player if he keeps progressing.

Yet, we have others who say he is a bad pick, because he isn't the guy they wanted (and those guys of course are going to be successful and DP isn't.) Somehow he isn't producing enough points in a league were it is notoriously tough for off. blueliners to put up huge numbers. A league where an NHL point machine like Green could barely avg a point a game.

You tell me which of these opinions are absurd or not.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said anything close to that.

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No, we are discussing if those people with an opinion, based on zero facts, would have the courage to say to Shero or DP he was a bad pick.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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No, I wouldn't rub salt in DB wounds, it would be idiotic. Which is why I tried to defend him all Summer, because no one is perfect. As I maintain, he isn't done growing as a coach. It's obvious he is making mistakes/quite stubborn and it's reasonable to criticize him for it on here.

However, it's not justifiable to criticize a player like DP and suggest he is a bad pick, when again, he is doing everything you could reasonably ask from him. I could understand, but wouldn't agree, if he was having a bad year.... But that isn't even remotely the case.

There is a distinct difference between these criticisms.
No, there's no difference. Most people here, including you and I, regularly pick apart decisions made by Pens brass. That doesn't mean that we don't respect the job they've done in general.

Shero and Bylsma have been instrumental to this organization's success on several levels. Why would either of us, if we ever got the chance to meet them, spend what little time we have criticizing them? It has nothing to do with courage.

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They aren't giving out org rankings. That is my entire point.
People have been explicit in saying it was a cross-section of scouts from across the league.


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12-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #765
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Ya'll mother****ers need jesus.

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12-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #766
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Ya'll mother****ers need jesus.

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12-16-2012, 01:12 PM
  #767
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The ****** thing about this argument is that I'm spending all of it knocking a kid I like.

But it's all relative.

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12-16-2012, 01:15 PM
  #768
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I try to stay out of these completely past tense arguments. Speculative arguments are much more interesting. The ones about stuff that already happened just hurt my head. Not that any internet forum arguing is productive; but these ones about past draft picks and stuff just seem like a whole different level of pointless to me.

That said, I am OK with the pick. I think way too much stock is put into media lists even if they are conglomerations of scouting lists. Enough other teams passed on the same guys we passed on that I think there is obviously something worth thinking about with them.

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12-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #769
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Ya'll mother****ers need jesus.


Here's Jebus

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12-16-2012, 01:46 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Nobody is missing that point. That is obviously the entire point.
Disagree.

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Is anyone here arguing against picking Pouliot because of his size?
Uh, ya. He's been called weak and undersized by more than a few posters.

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Better not have an opinion about prospects on a prospect site until they're done being prospects.
Huge difference between having an educated and reasonable opinion on a prospect vs one that is based on zero facts and being upset your guy wasn't picked.

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Nothing's chiseled in stone. We just play it safe and familiar a little too often for my liking, and I think picking Pouliot over other more highly touted players (based on personal viewings and everything we've heard from scouting cross references, independent services, and IHWR's firsthand account) may come back to bite us in the ass, especially considering it's likely going to be the last top 10 pick we see during this era.
Just funny you continuously argued agt. me all last season when I brought this up.

I've accepted this is how they do things and there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

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Perennial contenders only get so many opportunities to inject gamebreaking talent into their systems. We spent ours on a player very few would argue was BPA material before he was picked. I like what I've seen from Pouliot, he's a very good prospect, but the issue is whether he was the best available.
Again, disagree. The Pens added a game breaking talent that I feel strongly doesn't make it past Buffalo.

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Jig, you go off regularly on which players the Pens will regret calling up or letting go on waivers. We all analyze and criticize what the pros are doing.
I go off on decisions on prospects already in the system. I rarely, if ever go back and say they should have picked a Toews over a Staal, etc etc. I wanted Aberg or Frk over Maatta, but you don't see me crying about it. If Maatta busts and those two do well, I still won't say anything. What's done is done and Maatta, like DP, is looking like a very good pick.

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I also missed where I was rooting against Pouliot. I'd love for him to prove the Pens' reach was worth it.
I never expected you would. You are the one who keeps insisting I pointed the finger at you.

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said anything close to that.
Where have I heard this before?

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No, there's no difference. Most people here, including you and I, regularly pick apart decisions made by Pens brass. That doesn't mean that we don't respect the job they've done in general.
Again, vehemently disagree. Picking apart bad coaching decisions, inability to develop a fwd prospect in fifteen years, etc are all positions you can understand why someone would question.

Declaring an 18 year old kid a bad pick and a disappointment when he is having a very good season and was only picked 5 months ago, is absurd and not reasonable, at all.

Shero didn't take your guy, great. He didn't take my guys, I got over it.

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Shero and Bylsma have been instrumental to this organization's success on several levels. Why would either of us, if we ever got the chance to meet them, spend what little time we have criticizing them? It has nothing to do with courage.
Let's put the goalposts back.

Courage has everything to do with it. It is much easier to call a kid a bad pick on here, than it would be to Shero's face.

I'm pretty sure Shero would laugh and tell you to be patient and let things play out.

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Nobody said they were. People have been explicit in saying it was a cross-section of scouts from across the league.
Once again, apples to oranges.

The rankings that matter are the Pitt Penguins rankings. Those rankings said DP was ranked higher.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 12-16-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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12-16-2012, 02:04 PM
  #771
Ugene Malkin
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I trust Shero, but I don't trust Shero when our scouts are the ones who can't determine the worth of a forward picking what amounts to almost a lottery pick.

BPA was assuredly passed over.


Don't go shopping for top 10 picks with a hard on for a player off the board. I'm sure even the teams that had their eye on Pouliot would have strayed had the same players been there.

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12-16-2012, 02:17 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
What about the NHL scouts that were laughing about the DP pick that IHWR was talking about? Do you trust their opinions over Shero's?
No -- it's all the same to me, so I might as well put my faith in the team I root for. All the scouts criticizing the pick have had their share of "bad" picks and oversights, so it makes no difference.

I'll go through this one last time, but let's look at the two players people are most lamenting passing over -- Grigorenko and Forsberg. Buffalo picked Grigorenko, and yet they also had Pouliot in their Top-10. So if you're endorsing their pick of Grigs you're also endorsing a scouting staff who had DP in the Top-10. And Washington drafted Forsberg, so if you're endorsing their pick, you're also endorsing a scouting staff who didn't even have Grigorenko ranked on their entire board. Do they know what they're doing, or not?

We all get entirely too caught up in rankings, and not the actual players.

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12-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #773
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Who cares who was on what board? Pouliot is averaging over a PPG, and as a D, that's incredible. Instead of complaining that player X would be better than him, people need to be happy that we got an incredible D that is an extremely rare kind of player. He's on a 7 game point streak, where he has 12 points over it. AS A D! Those numbers are fantastic for a F, almost unheard of for a D.

I've watched his last 3 games, and he has been solid in his own end. As I watch him, I can't stop from making Letang comparisons. He may not be the biggest/most physical D, but damn, he sees the ice so well, at both ends of the ice. The ONLY issue that anyone could justly say is about his size, but that's essentially knocking Letang as well.

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12-16-2012, 03:23 PM
  #774
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I don't buy that the BPA was passed over. It's not logical. The Pens just had Pouliot ranked higher than the scouting services, the armchair GM's on here and some other teams. Pouliot wouldn't have been my pick either but it wasn't a laughable pick. I heard scouts not associated with the Pens that called the kid the best passing D-Man in the draft.

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12-16-2012, 03:59 PM
  #775
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The fact is, DePo might have been an "off-board" pick based on scouting services, but he wasn't one when it came to the PENGUINS SCOUTING.

They obviously targeted DePo. No way was he making it to the 20's. Tampa, Buffalo, Ottawa and San Jose showed interest in a PMD.

The Penguins know the Portland system and it's credibility, and they also know that they are able to develop defensemen very well. I won't even go into the whole asset argument because the DePo haters are also the ones who ignore that.

Like I've said before...the 2012 draft was weak. The forwards all have major question marks and none seem to be sure things. Personally, the only forwards I like from the first round are Galchenyuk and Faska

The forwards like Grigs and FF didn't "fall" necessarily...the D prospects were just better. The high rankings of forward prospects may have been because of the lack of them.

It's easy to criticize DePo because he's a "smallish, plays no defense, can't hit type of player", but if you watch him play that's the furthest thing from the truth.

It's also easy to stat watch Grigs, but the Penguins success has been skill (after sucking so long) AND running one of the most respected organizations in the league. They may have felt Grigs didn't fit the mold of a Penguin and DePo did.

I don't know much about FF since I've seen him play only a couple of times. He was overhyped going into the draft and I think people get mad about not picking him because of what they have read in scouting reports. I can guarantee a large majority of this board hasn't watch FF this year.

A lot of people need to relax and be optimistic. We came out of that draft with very, very good assets. Even our late round picks show promise.

ANDDDDD let's not forget about the positive progression and development of our NCAA forward prospects. C'mon guys we are in a great position now and in the future

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