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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
12-16-2012, 04:26 PM
  #776
Jacob
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I trust Shero, but I don't trust Shero when our scouts are the ones who can't determine the worth of a forward picking what amounts to almost a lottery pick.

BPA was assuredly passed over.


Don't go shopping for top 10 picks with a hard on for a player off the board. I'm sure even the teams that had their eye on Pouliot would have strayed had the same players been there.
But teams *did* stray from Grigorenko and Forsberg even after the Pens went, supposedly, off-the-board with Pouliot. Obviously neither Grigs nor Forsberg were clear-cut top 10 picks considering neither went top 10.

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12-16-2012, 05:25 PM
  #777
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The Pens passed on better players (Grigs, TT), but those aforementioned guys are the are the only ones imo. Some here are making it sound like a Hugh Jessiman situation.

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12-16-2012, 05:37 PM
  #778
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The Pens passed on better players (Grigs, TT), but those aforementioned guys are the are the only ones imo. Some here are making it sound like a Hugh Jessiman situation.
How are they better players? I just don't see how people can make bold statements like that.

You can they were projected better prospect entering the draft, and that's about it.

Time will tell who the better players are. We can't say that now.

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12-16-2012, 05:41 PM
  #779
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Since Pouliot has become Tangradi 2.0 discussion wise, I'm waiting for someone to do a little dog photoshop involving him and Clifford.

Little Poodle maybe?

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12-16-2012, 10:45 PM
  #780
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I think some people are forgetting about Pouliots "pedigree", as well. He was not some unknown commodity who came out of nowhere and wasn't on scouts' radars.


This player was ranked in the top 10 (#10, I believe) on Bob McKenzie's prelimary ranking's last year to start the season. He was also the 1st overall pick in the 2009 WHL Bantam draft, just ahead of players such as Morgan Rielly, Griffin Reinhart, Matt Dumba, and others.


This is a guy who simply slipped a couple of spots in the final rankings of some independent scouting services/surveys, and so because of that, people here now think that it's justification for them to **** all over Pouliot as if they have some kind all-knowing proof that he will end up being an inferior NHLer over the long term.

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12-16-2012, 10:58 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I think some people are forgetting about Pouliots "pedigree", as well. He was not some unknown commodity who came out of nowhere and wasn't on scouts' radars.


This player was ranked in the top 10 (#10, I believe) on Bob McKenzie's prelimary ranking's last year to start the season. He was also the 1st overall pick in the 2009 WHL Bantam draft, just ahead of players such as Morgan Rielly, Griffin Reinhart, Matt Dumba, and others.


This is a guy who simply slipped a couple of spots in the final rankings of some independent scouting services/surveys, and so because of that, people here now think that it's justification for them to **** all over Pouliot as if they have some kind all-knowing proof that he will end up being an inferior NHLer over the long term.
I'd add "best passer/offensive defenseman" in the 2012 draft to his pedigree. If some folks here stop focusing on Forsberg and Grigorenko, I think they'll be pretty pleased with our pick.

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12-16-2012, 10:59 PM
  #782
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I think it's also worth pointing out that if you're going to cite McKenzie's list as being based on scouts from "across the League", you might want to read his articles a little more closely - because he repeatedly states that his list is based on a survey of 10 scouts. That could still count as "across the League" in a sense, but it's also only getting a peek into one out of every three teams in the League, at best.

Which makes it all the more impressive that he's had the success he's had with that list. Of course, he does only judge himself based on how many players on his list end up getting drafted in the first round, and doesn't worry so much about the exact final draft position of each player.

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12-16-2012, 11:19 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Disagree.
Everybody knows he was ranked highest on the Pens list, Jig. The point of contention is that the general consensus, conversely, had him considerably lower.

I'm not sure how the concept of a team picking "off the board" got so difficult for people to wrap their head around. It always seemed pretty cut-and-dried to me before the Pens picked Pouliot, then all of a sudden other scouts and scouting services did not constitute a consensus, and there was no such thing as an off-the-board pick.

I guess the Pens could've picked Clark Seymour with the 8th overall and it wouldn't have been off the board, because their rankings are their rankings. Circular logic at its finest.

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Huge difference between having an educated and reasonable opinion on a prospect vs one that is based on zero facts and being upset your guy wasn't picked.
What do you mean "zero facts"? What sort of facts do you presume could be used here to support one side or the other? You know, other than all the other divergent scouting sources people have referenced that you don't acknowledge.

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Just funny you continuously argued agt. me all last season when I brought this up.
I don't remember this, but maybe I'm out of it.

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Again, disagree. The Pens added a game breaking talent that I feel strongly doesn't make it past Buffalo.
Disagree with what? If your second sentence is supposed to qualify your first, it doesn't follow, because it doesn't counter anything I wrote in that paragraph.

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I go off on decisions on prospects already in the system. I rarely, if ever go back and say they should have picked a Toews over a Staal, etc etc. I wanted Aberg or Frk over Maatta, but you don't see me crying about it. If Maatta busts and those two do well, I still won't say anything. What's done is done and Maatta, like DP, is looking like a very good pick.
So...is that supposed to be somehow better?

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Again, vehemently disagree. Picking apart bad coaching decisions, inability to develop a fwd prospect in fifteen years, etc are all positions you can understand why someone would question.

Declaring an 18 year old kid a bad pick and a disappointment when he is having a very good season and was only picked 5 months ago, is absurd and not reasonable, at all.

Shero didn't take your guy, great. He didn't take my guys, I got over it.
Questioning Chris Conner getting called up over WBS prospects or Nick Johnson getting lost to waivers is no different than questioning the Pens picking Pouliot over higher touted players. It's a lot more worthy of our attention, actually, since the potential impact on the Pens is so much greater.

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Let's put the goalposts back.

Courage has everything to do with it. It is much easier to call a kid a bad pick on here, than it would be to Shero's face.

I'm pretty sure Shero would laugh and tell you to be patient and let things play out.
The goalposts are where they've always been. Re-read what I wrote.

Never mind the fact that whether you or I would "say it to his face" (as if that's a realistic option we've chosen to avoid ) has no bearing whatsoever on the issues at hand. The issues are the issues. The macho posturing is goofy, and irrelevant, and beneath you.

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Once again, apples to oranges.

The rankings that matter are the Pitt Penguins rankings. Those rankings said DP was ranked higher.
Comparing their rankings to those of other actual NHL scouts is the best way to gain well-informed outside perspective.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 12-16-2012 at 11:37 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 11:41 PM
  #784
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I'd add "best passer/offensive defenseman" in the 2012 draft to his pedigree. If some folks here stop focusing on Forsberg and Grigorenko, I think they'll be pretty pleased with our pick.

Well, I know Bob McKenzie at the draft said that some scouts he spoke with said DP could be the best "transition defenseman" in the draft, and others said that he could be the best passer. But let's be honest: as high as I am on this player, he is not at the same level as Morgan Rielly. Rielly is just on another level of ability, and has Lady Byng PIM numbers (I think he has had one penalty the entire season).

But this does not diminish DP's prospect value or his potential as a player. It is merely the case of what happens when you're picking #8, as opposed to picking in the top 3 or 5. He does have those characteristics, however, and he has done absolutey NOTHING to suggest that the Pens have made a mistake. All he has done is improved as a player and put up great numbers all year.


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Originally Posted by Freeptop View Post
I think it's also worth pointing out that if you're going to cite McKenzie's list as being based on scouts from "across the League", you might want to read his articles a little more closely - because he repeatedly states that his list is based on a survey of 10 scouts. That could still count as "across the League" in a sense, but it's also only getting a peek into one out of every three teams in the League, at best.

Which makes it all the more impressive that he's had the success he's had with that list. Of course, he does only judge himself based on how many players on his list end up getting drafted in the first round, and doesn't worry so much about the exact final draft position of each player.

This is exactly my point. He was, in that sense, widely regarded across the league as a top-10 talent before the season started, and the final rankings happened to have him outside of the top-10 -- which could as much be about other players stepping up or being "hyped" than it was about DP's overall potential & value as a prospect.

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12-17-2012, 12:03 AM
  #785
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No -- it's all the same to me, so I might as well put my faith in the team I root for. All the scouts criticizing the pick have had their share of "bad" picks and oversights, so it makes no difference.

I'll go through this one last time, but let's look at the two players people are most lamenting passing over -- Grigorenko and Forsberg. Buffalo picked Grigorenko, and yet they also had Pouliot in their Top-10. So if you're endorsing their pick of Grigs you're also endorsing a scouting staff who had DP in the Top-10. And Washington drafted Forsberg, so if you're endorsing their pick, you're also endorsing a scouting staff who didn't even have Grigorenko ranked on their entire board. Do they know what they're doing, or not?

We all get entirely too caught up in rankings, and not the actual players.
That's great that you have total faith in Shero, just know that not everyone does. IMO, the attitude of some here that it's ok to assume Shero's right and everyone who disagrees with him is wrong and should get called out for trusting another source is a little naive and hypocritical.

Where did you find BUF's and WSH's top 10 lists? I'd be interested to see who's on it because if their lists excluded the top 5-8 players that would be gone by the time they picked it means much less that DP was on BUF's. IIRC WSH wasn't prepared for either Fors or Grigs because they assumes they'd both be taken.


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Old
12-17-2012, 12:55 AM
  #786
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That's great that you have total faith in Shero, just know that not everyone does. IMO, the attitude of some here that it's ok to assume Shero's right and everyone who disagrees with him is wrong and should get called out for trusting another source is a little naive and hypocritical.

Where did you find BUF's and WSH's top 10 lists? I'd be interested to see who's on it because if their lists excluded the top 5-8 players that would be gone by the time they picked it means much less that DP was on BUF's. IIRC WSH wasn't prepared for either Fors or Grigs because they assumes they'd both be taken.
I didn't say I have total faith in Shero and co. Just that it's all a wash to me, so I might as well be a bit more optimistic about the Pens' picks since that's the team I root for -- if anything adopt an "innocent until proven guilty" mentality. I'll assume DP was a good pick until he shows me differently, and so far he's developing as expected. Crapping on a pick right after it's made is just stupid.

And information leaks. It's the same way we know Shero tried to move up in the 2010 draft to pick Tarasenko but St. Louis had the better offer.

And you're way, wayyyyyy off base with how teams build their lists. Every team starts at the top, from #1, and works their way down. Pens, Buffalo, Washington.... they all started from Yakupov (presumably) and took it from there. That's just how it's done.

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12-17-2012, 05:02 AM
  #787
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But this does not diminish DP's prospect value or his potential as a player. It is merely the case of what happens when you're picking #8, as opposed to picking in the top 3 or 5. He does have those characteristics, however, and he has done absolutey NOTHING to suggest that the Pens have made a mistake..
This what really gets me. People like you denying the facts:

1. The Pens need forwards, not defendemen.
2. DP didn't make the team Canada.
3. He is simply not doung thst great this season
4. Alternate prospects like Gregorenko are going much better.
5. No prospect ranking has him in the top 40. A new #8

I really wonder what other evidence you would accept that is was a bad pick. How much worse would he have to do? Does his head have to fall off? I realize that part of the problem was the draft was very very weak, but there were still better options.

Not doubt, you will fall back on "you can't tell whether a pick is good for four years." That's a cowardly thing to say because in 4 years no one will remember what you said today and you will be free to claim that you knew DP was a mistake all along. It's the same pattern as for Dome, Esposito, Kraft and on and on. Every pick is just great. When the truth comes clear, all the rats quietly jump ship.

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12-17-2012, 05:08 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
This is exactly my point. He was, in that sense, widely regarded across the league as a top-10 talent before the season started, and the final rankings **happened** to have him outside of the top-10 -- which could as much be about other players stepping up or being "hyped" than it was about DP's overall potential & value as a prospect.
I love that word *happened*. It sounds like it was an accident and had nothing to do with how he actually played.

As far as begin regarded as a top talent before the draft, there are probably 50 players regarded as a top 10 talent at some point before the draft. Marcantuoni was regarded as potential 10 pick before last season and has become a complete failure

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12-17-2012, 05:16 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Well, I know Bob McKenzie at the draft said that some scouts he spoke with said DP could be the best "transition defenseman" in the draft, and others said that he could be the best passer. But let's be honest: as high as I am on this player, he is not at the same level as Morgan Rielly. Rielly is just on another level of ability, and has Lady Byng PIM numbers (I think he has had one penalty the entire season).

But this does not diminish DP's prospect value or his potential as a player. It is merely the case of what happens when you're picking #8, as opposed to picking in the top 3 or 5. He does have those characteristics, however, and he has done absolutey NOTHING to suggest that the Pens have made a mistake. All he has done is improved as a player and put up great numbers all year.

This is exactly my point. He was, in that sense, widely regarded across the league as a top-10 talent before the season started, and the final rankings happened to have him outside of the top-10 -- which could as much be about other players stepping up or being "hyped" than it was about DP's overall potential & value as a prospect.
Do you think its ability, mind set or just the team around them? I think Rielly has more bravado to his game than DePo. He leads the charge and I think thats the big difference between their games. I actually like Pouliots game more. He moves the puck up ice and follows the play more than leading the rush. Not that Rielly can't do that or that he's caught out of position a lot but I think he's more of a risk taker than Pouliot. Maybe Rielly has to play that way though because of his team.

The comparison between the two remind me a little of Leetch and Zubov. Leetch being more of the puck rusher and Zubie being one of the best long passers I've ever seen. In the end they were both pretty awesome.

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12-17-2012, 06:43 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
1. The Pens need forwards, not defendemen.
2. DP didn't make the team Canada.
3. He is simply not doung thst great this season
4. Alternate prospects like Gregorenko are going much better.
5. No prospect ranking has him in the top 40. A new #8
I can't find even one inaccuracy with this list. It's perfect.

defendemen.

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12-17-2012, 07:54 AM
  #791
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Everybody knows he was ranked highest on the Pens list, Jig. The point of contention is that the general consensus, conversely, had him considerably lower.
Who makes the final decisions DD? Lets stop complicating this.

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I'm not sure how the concept of a team picking "off the board" got so difficult for people to wrap their head around. It always seemed pretty cut-and-dried to me before the Pens picked Pouliot, then all of a sudden other scouts and scouting services did not constitute a consensus, and there was no such thing as an off-the-board pick.
I don't get how you can struggle with the fact that there are public rankings and internal rankings.

That's why DP went 8th, Lindholm jumped up over ten spots, Maatta fell a dozen spots, and FP and Grigs slipped out of the top ten.

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I guess the Pens could've picked Clark Seymour with the 8th overall and it wouldn't have been off the board, because their rankings are their rankings. Circular logic at its finest.
Did they? No.

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What do you mean "zero facts"? What sort of facts do you presume could be used here to support one side or the other? You know, other than all the other divergent scouting sources people have referenced that you don't acknowledge.
There is zero evidence to suggest DP was a bad pick or is having a disappointing season. There is ample evidence he is doing exactly what we should expect from him.

Again, trying to make this more difficult than it should be, is kind of lame DD.

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I don't remember this, but maybe I'm out of it.
You don't recall arguing with me about the Pens inability to draft and develop fwds?

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Disagree with what? If your second sentence is supposed to qualify your first, it doesn't follow, because it doesn't counter anything I wrote in that paragraph.
Sure it did. The Pens philosophy straight from Shero and Heinbuck's mouth is to go BPA. They took DP. What does that tell you about their opinion of him?

The Pens did in fact get a gamebreaking talent with their pick. Just not the one YOU wanted.

Forest. Trees.

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So...is that supposed to be somehow better?
If your deal is to be a wishful thinker and dwell on an event that won't change, more power to you.

I like to focus on realistic things that affect current Pens prospects or guys who COULD be drafted by them. Not guys they passed over in the draft.

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Questioning Chris Conner getting called up over WBS prospects or Nick Johnson getting lost to waivers is no different than questioning the Pens picking Pouliot over higher touted players. It's a lot more worthy of our attention, actually, since the potential impact on the Pens is so much greater.
Again, context. You can question the pick, but to declare him a "bad pick" and a "disappointment" shows ignorance. Did you once see me ridicule the Maatta pick because my guys got passed over? I was far from happy about it at the time.

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The goalposts are where they've always been. Re-read what I wrote.

Never mind the fact that whether you or I would "say it to his face" (as if that's a realistic option we've chosen to avoid ) has no bearing whatsoever on the issues at hand. The issues are the issues. The macho posturing is goofy, and irrelevant, and beneath you.
The issues are people say stupid **** on here, because there is no accountability hiding behind your username.

I actually had a chance to go to the draft this year, but had to go to a wedding. So say I went and met Shero and DB after the draft.

I would have no problems, in a respectful way, asking DB why he isn't playing Tangradi more, picking his brain about what happened in the Flyers series, etc. I defended him on here when half the board wanted him fired, so why would I rub salt in his wounds, so to speak?

I would of in no way, shape or form, said to Shero that Maatta was a bad pick and he should of taken Aberg or Frk.

If you can't understand this, not sure what else I can say.

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Comparing their rankings to those of other actual NHL scouts is the best way to gain well-informed outside perspective.
DD, you are too intelligent for me to keep explaining this to you...

Outside rankings are for entertainment purposes only. Internal rankings are all that matters, and as I explained earlier, that is why you saw a number of prospects taken way above or below their public rankings, including the two fwds you keep pining for.

And I'm positive, given the rumors and their farm, Buffalo takes DP.


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12-17-2012, 10:50 AM
  #792
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But teams *did* stray from Grigorenko and Forsberg even after the Pens went, supposedly, off-the-board with Pouliot. Obviously neither Grigs nor Forsberg were clear-cut top 10 picks considering neither went top 10.
They went 11th and 12th and two teams picked off the board for players whom they had hard-ons for.

Go figure that both had two picks in the first round with one top ten and both being D-man.


One actually needs them and the other is drowning in them.

It comes down to the point that the Pens could afford to pick in a position they actually have "more" need for in coming seasons and can afford to do so.

Keep trading for players with D-man and have to pay the final finished product pricing, or take a chance on a highly skilled forward and reap the rewards of an ELC?


My other feeling is the D-man model of trades that everyone sees Shero pulling off is probably closing looking at how much attention to taking D-man early has been going on.

Now look at who'll he'll have to jump over to get a foot hold. They don't have this problem at forward.

The position requires more just by volume, and the clear path on the roster speaking to UFA's and RFA's speaks loudly.

Now factor in a lower cap.

Is it feasible to keep trading away young cheap D-man for more costing forwards who're finished products, and require top salaries almost immediately?

This doesn't even speak to the lack of forward prospects now at Bennett & Kunhackl as the main stay with Tangradi not really a prospect anymore who's really one bad season from being parted ways with.

I don't think anyone is tearing down Pouliot as a player, just that with the mass of high quality D-man they already have doesn't require him as the pick at #8.

It's their comfort level I know, that's pretty sad.

Some of you are OK with the pick, fine, some of us are not. This isn't about a Staal situation picking from one top center of another so, JTG, this shouldn't be an issue.

It's picking a D-man off the board when you have plenty of that in droves.

How about them keep picking top D-man in the mid to late 1st round. That seems to be their strong suite. Picking in the top ten other than #1 #2 is pretty bad.

There's more than enough to warrant talk both ways, but the player isn't being torn down in order to do it.

I welcome Derrick Pouliot to organization, but I feel he'll be made redundant and wasted his true potential to the team in cost effectiveness. If he's this great so young, he should be playing next season or the season after that at #8 at what would be 20/21 years old.

In that time he'll have to make either Kris Letang or Joe Morrow redundant.

I think he has a hill to climb, and it's not all about ability.

Those are my feelings whether you like them or not.


Edit: disclaimer, this is not solely aimed at anyone one person.


Last edited by Ugene Malkin: 12-17-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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12-17-2012, 12:09 PM
  #793
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Ya'll mother****ers need jesus.

Is the answer (really) Jesus?



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12-17-2012, 12:50 PM
  #794
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2. DP didn't make the team Canada.
3. He is simply not doung thst great this season
2. Neither did Dumba, who was a higher pick and whom others here value higher than Pouliot. Guess he was a bad pick (Pouliot's also having a better regular season than he is as well).

3. That's simply not true, so I'll just disregard anything else you have to say on the subject.

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12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
2. Neither did Dumba, who was a higher pick and whom others here value higher than Pouliot. Guess he was a bad pick (Pouliot's also having a better regular season than he is as well).

3. That's simply not true, so I'll just disregard anything else you have to say on the subject.
yeah but he's a defendmen.

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12-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #796
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To wade into this and regret that I did most likely.

Honest question. Why does everyone just use unquestioned the argument that goes something like this:

'well yeah, Shero drafted a boatload of backend talent, and not just backend talent but almost all of a certain type. But you can trade a PMD and get value back. Look what Whitney and Goligoski brought! We can get a Nisky and Neal for everyone of these PMD's he has drafted.'

And everyone seems to buy this as true. I hate a lot of these truisms as a lot of them seem rational on the surface but do not stand up to even rudimentary scruitiny. Sort of like the one where the refs favor the Pens (who google can show you are year in year out one of the most penalized teams in the league). Or that we do not support the team (or bandwagon fans, etc) when our television ratings have been among the best for decades. But back to this one. Yeah PMD have great value. But there is a caveat people ignore. They have value ONCE THEY DEVELOPE. Whitney and Goligoski spent years as whipping boys and were just entering what was percieved to be their primes when they were traded. A lot of the chance had been removed from developing them, along with a lot of the pain. Watching Gogo come out of the zone and turn the puck over again and again and again especially his first couple years was painful to see. So I see a flaw in the Shero plan and those defending it. We are cup contenders for the next few years if not favorites. We do not have the luxury of developing guys who suck defensively until they grow into the pro game. We are not the same team we were when Whitney and Goligoski were developing. And we will not get much value back for prospects. So how does that plan work for us, as we are constructed now?

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12-17-2012, 03:04 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
To wade into this and regret that I did most likely.

Honest question. Why does everyone just use unquestioned the argument that goes something like this:

'well yeah, Shero drafted a boatload of backend talent, and not just backend talent but almost all of a certain type. But you can trade a PMD and get value back. Look what Whitney and Goligoski brought! We can get a Nisky and Neal for everyone of these PMD's he has drafted.'

And everyone seems to buy this as true. I hate a lot of these truisms as a lot of them seem rational on the surface but do not stand up to even rudimentary scruitiny. Sort of like the one where the refs favor the Pens (who google can show you are year in year out one of the most penalized teams in the league). Or that we do not support the team (or bandwagon fans, etc) when our television ratings have been among the best for decades. But back to this one. Yeah PMD have great value. But there is a caveat people ignore. They have value ONCE THEY DEVELOPE. Whitney and Goligoski spent years as whipping boys and were just entering what was percieved to be their primes when they were traded. A lot of the chance had been removed from developing them, along with a lot of the pain. Watching Gogo come out of the zone and turn the puck over again and again and again especially his first couple years was painful to see. So I see a flaw in the Shero plan and those defending it. We are cup contenders for the next few years if not favorites. We do not have the luxury of developing guys who suck defensively until they grow into the pro game. We are not the same team we were when Whitney and Goligoski were developing. And we will not get much value back for prospects. So how does that plan work for us, as we are constructed now?
But MAF makes the saves when he has to! (as if there is ever a time he doesn't "have" to make a save). The logic hockey fans use sometimes.

If your goal is to get a solid forward talent, you certainly don't draft defensemen. Noting all of 2 past examples as "the rule" is also .

#1: Defensemen: They are generally a riskier pick, take longer to develop, and are highly dependent on forwards for their point production. (These statements have all been just about proven in numerous studies). Whitney and Gogo are still good, top 4 defensemen.


#2: Trade: Why draft and develop something of an unknown with the idea that you are eventually going to "flip" it for something of equal or greater value? Does this ever really work reliably on any item or good without huge risks? IE housing market, stocks, gold, etc? If you value something, produce it yourself. You eliminate many variables (that you can't control) out of the development process. Who knows if you can find a trade partner with valuable assets that wants yours?

Aside from Neal, Kunitz/Tangradi was not all that great of a return for Whitney (assuming RW can ever stay healthy). I wouldn't say we fleeced them by any stretch. I'd also like to see more than one miracle year out of Neal too before judging that trade.

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12-17-2012, 03:27 PM
  #798
BlindWillyMcHurt
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Agreed wholeheartedly, Jaded.

I've always half-hated that logic, myself. It assumes far, far too much.

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12-17-2012, 04:53 PM
  #799
Jacob
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This what really gets me. People like you denying the facts:

1. The Pens need forwards, not defendemen.
2. DP didn't make the team Canada.
3. He is simply not doung thst great this season
4. Alternate prospects like Gregorenko are going much better.
5. No prospect ranking has him in the top 40. A new #8

I really wonder what other evidence you would accept that is was a bad pick. How much worse would he have to do? Does his head have to fall off? I realize that part of the problem was the draft was very very weak, but there were still better options.

Not doubt, you will fall back on "you can't tell whether a pick is good for four years." That's a cowardly thing to say because in 4 years no one will remember what you said today and you will be free to claim that you knew DP was a mistake all along. It's the same pattern as for Dome, Esposito, Kraft and on and on. Every pick is just great. When the truth comes clear, all the rats quietly jump ship.
It's not too late to re-register and start fresh.

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12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
It's not too late to re-register and start fresh.

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