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Kings re-sign Jarret Stoll for 3 years, 9.75 million (3.25m cap hit)

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Old
06-23-2012, 09:03 PM
  #76
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
thats where i disagree.

brown, williams, gagne, penner, king, lewis, clifford, nolan.

the wings are here
Penner isn't here. He's a UFA.

King, lewis, Clifford and Nolan are not top 6 wingers. Gagne will not play 82 games.

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06-23-2012, 09:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The Kings just won the Stanley Cup, went 16-4 in the playoffs and 29-9-3 since acquiring Carter (and playing him on the wing). Now you want to weaken the wing so that Carter and Richards can play center?

Kopitar
Richards
Stoll
Fraser

That is one of the best group of 4 centers in the NHL and they are all signed long term. The Kings also have Carter and Lewis available to fill in for injuries at center. Richardson and Loktionov could also fill in at center.
Its just my opinion. Im not saying I'm right.

and as good as those 4 center look, how much better do these 4 look:

Kopitar
Carer
Richards
Fraser

Id rather have spent the 3.25 on a wing, or resigning an impact player, and play our best fowards at their natural positions.

That 3.25 coul be key in futre negotations with Brown and Quick, etc...

But just my opinion, I'm likeley wrong. Don't crucify me!

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06-23-2012, 09:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Penner isn't here. He's a UFA.

King, lewis, Clifford and Nolan are not top 6 wingers. Gagne will not play 82 games.
Im aware that Penner isn't signed, lol. Im suggesting to sign him. Or to get a replacement for him.

King is very close to being a top 6 winger. Could certainly play there in a pinch.

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06-23-2012, 09:18 PM
  #79
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The Kings are far to weak on the wing if they were to switch Carter back to center. At the very least the Kings are going to give Mike Richards one more year, if he has another 45 point season, then maybe you consider options to upgrade the 2nd line C position, which could include slotting Carter in there.

And Stoll's 3.5 is not going to get you a really good winger. Stoll is being paid like a good 3rd liner, will he be a good 3rd liner like he was in the playoffs or an abomination like he was in the regular season. If I had to guess probably somewhere in between. Time will tell.

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06-23-2012, 09:57 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Stoll is being paid like a good 3rd liner, will he be a good 3rd liner like he was in the playoffs or an abomination like he was in the regular season. If I had to guess probably somewhere in between. Time will tell.
Get him some decent linemates and I say he'll be fine, especially since Sutter doesn't come across as the type to mix and match lines everyother game, which will allow them to gain some chemistry.
IF we also resign PENNER and/or sign a certain UFA that we recently played against while going back and forth to New Jersey ...
Stoll could center a 3rd line of something like PENNER/GAGNE - STOLL - WILLIAMS ? or something like that, which would be a decent 2nd line for most NHL teams
but certainly a hell of a 3rd line for ANY team.

Long shot but ...

BROWN - KOPITAR - PARISE
GAGNE - RICHARDS - CARTER
PENNER - STOLL - WILLIAMS
KING - FRASER - LEWIS
x's - CLIFFORD, NOLAN, RICHARDSON

and if not PARISE, we'd still be looking at ...

BROWN - KOPITAR - WILLIAMS
GAGNE - RICHARDS - CARTER
PENNER - STOLL - LEWIS
KING - FRASER - CLIFFORD
x's - NOLAN, RICHARDSON

However IF were looking at KING - STOLL - LEWIS as our 3rd line, then I wouldn't expect as much from Stoll ... would YOU ?

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Old
06-23-2012, 10:03 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
.

Long shot but ...

BROWN - KOPITAR - PARISE
GAGNE - RICHARDS - CARTER
PENNER - STOLL - WILLIAMS
KING - FRASER - LEWIS
x's - CLIFFORD, NOLAN, RICHARDSON
That would be a sick NHL13 lineup.

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Old
06-23-2012, 10:07 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post

However IF were looking at KING - STOLL - LEWIS as our 3rd line, then I wouldn't expect as much from Stoll ... would YOU ?
Not a lot of points, but that line would be a ***** to play against. They led the kings in the playoffs in total hits with 175.

I think that line would produce more with sutter than they would with Murray.

Kings should be closer to 15th in offense than 29th in offense next season.

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06-23-2012, 10:52 PM
  #83
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PuckU,

I don't think it's fair to blame Stoll's lack of offense on his linemates. Since he has been a King he has played with Brown, Frolov, Williams, Smyth, Penner, Richards, King, Richardson, Clifford etc at different times in addition to playing tons with Doughty and Kopitar on the #1 PP unit. I just think he isn't a very offensively skilled guy.

I don't think he is 6 goals bad, but I would be shocked if Stoll ever got back to the 15-20 range. I think the Kings would be very happy with 10-12 goals from him next season.

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06-23-2012, 10:56 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Kings should be closer to 15th in offense than 29th in offense next season.
I think that comes down to the man in your avatar and the Kings PP.

We know what we're getting with Kopi, but if the Kings are going to be better offensively, MR needs to be a 65 point player, not a 45 point player.

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06-23-2012, 11:01 PM
  #85
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I think he could get 15 next year because the team will score more under Sutter. He'll also be playing where he belongs instead of on a higher level so he should be fine. I just hope he cuts down on the wreckless play.

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06-23-2012, 11:52 PM
  #86
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I would be shocked if Richards scored less than 50 points this upcoming season, let alone 44. If he stays healthy, he's scoring 60+. Especially with Carter next to him. He scored at a 60+ point clip for the playoff run and like everyone save Kopi, had a monstrous cold streak during the middle portion of th year. I expect with a full season of Sutter at the helm, the team will not be the 29th rated team in scoring.

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06-23-2012, 11:57 PM
  #87
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I'm saying right now Richards puts up 25 goals and 40 assists. I will also say Carter puts up 35 goals and 30 assists.

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Old
06-24-2012, 01:01 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
PuckU,

I don't think it's fair to blame Stoll's lack of offense on his linemates. Since he has been a King he has played with Brown, Frolov, Williams, Smyth, Penner, Richards, King, Richardson, Clifford etc at different times in addition to playing tons with Doughty and Kopitar on the #1 PP unit. I just think he isn't a very offensively skilled guy.

I don't think he is 6 goals bad, but I would be shocked if Stoll ever got back to the 15-20 range. I think the Kings would be very happy with 10-12 goals from him next season.
Well Herby I know you're not Kurrilino bad when it comes to hating on Stoll ... but to be "FAIR" ... Stoll WAS a 20 goal scorer as recently as LAST SEASON (2010-2011, 20g - 23a = 43p) when he WAS playing with those 'better' line-mates ... whereas this season while granted just about EVERYONE's offense was horrid, also consider Stoll was moved around like a pinball for much of the year and he didn't have regular linemates until after Sutter came in and we traded for Carter. Recall for a long stretch Stoll was moved up to our 2nd line Right Wing playing alongside Richards during Mike's dry spell to try and get that line going, a move which failed to spark either player. You seem to forget at the begin of this season Stoll's linemates were generally some combination of Trent Hunter, Ethan Moreau, Scott Parse, Brad Richardson, Dustin Penner and/or Kyle Clifford for about the first 25 games, then Murray brought up Loktionov to try and play Left Wing alongside Richards and Brown, and after about a failed week of that Loki was moved to the 3rd line center and Stoll up to 2nd line Wing, until Richards got hurt and then Stoll was our 2nd line Center again for awhile playing with of all people PENNER and WILLIAMS from mid December to early January or so, though back as our 3rd line, when Richards came back and was paired with Gagne & Lewis for a stretch. Stoll was getting some points during this time btw, which is why I think that line would be solid again.

Anyways point is Stoll hardly was put into situation to succeed during that time, and considering our team offensive strugles as whole ... given a full healthy roster next season I fully expect Stoll to be more like PLAYOFFS Stoll and be something of a 15-20 goal scorer again next season provided stable semi-skilled linemates. I might be proven wrong, but I think Lombardi and Sutter are hoping for similar results and an improved team offense as a whole next season, but time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That would be a sick NHL13 lineup.
Hell everyone else uses Playstation for the line-ups and salary cap figures I might as well too ... but if the Cap goes up past the $70 Mil mark as they said, and the new CBA doesn't wreck that or all salaries adjust down to compensate as would be expected, we actually WOULD / COULD have the cap room for such a line-up next season, as long as Penner signs for about $3.5 Mil and with only a small tweak or two, like waiving/trading Richardson's $1.175 mil and provided PARISE would sign with us for around a $7 mil cap hit or less. But again, I said LONG SHOT http://www.capgeek.com/cap-calculato...er.php?id=7879 - but the #'s DO work out


Last edited by Puck U: 06-24-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Old
06-24-2012, 01:52 AM
  #89
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Playoff Stoll scored 5 points in 20 games. Same 21 point pace he scored during the regular season. Both he and Lewis need to step it up next season. Maybe a whole year under Sutter will help but he didn't put up any more points after he was hired and the team broke out of their scoring slump than he did under Murray.

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06-24-2012, 02:06 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
Playoff Stoll scored 5 points in 20 games. Same 21 point pace he scored during the regular season. Both he and Lewis need to step it up next season. Maybe a whole year under Sutter will help but he didn't put up any more points after he was hired and the team broke out of their scoring slump than he did under Murray.
And his linemates were mostly KING and LEWIS during the playoffs, and was taken off the Power Play, thank you for helping to prove my point even though you weren't trying to

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06-24-2012, 02:09 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
Playoff Stoll scored 5 points in 20 games. Same 21 point pace he scored during the regular season.
Yes. But it can't be denied his play was much better. That's why it's ridiculous when someone comes on here and says people only criticized Stoll because of his stats. His stats were similar all season, but he was effective in the playoffs and was horrific in the regular season.

@PuckU,

That is why I said 15-20 goals, because that is where he was the previous three seasons for the Kings. 15-20 goals, around 40 points, which is not really acceptable for a guy who played his entire time in a scoring role and on the #1 PP.

I just don't see Stoll tripling his goal production this coming season to get back to that 15-20 range. He should not be on a scoring role unless there are massive injuries (Carter would step in should Kopitar or Richards get hurt) and with Gagne and hopefully Penner coming back, Stoll should see zero PP time. Just have a hard time seeing him reach his previous numbers with King and Lewis and no PP time.

PP Units should be...

Brown - Kopitar - Carter
Doughty - Martinez

Gagne/Penner - Richards - Williams
Voynov - Mitchell

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06-24-2012, 03:01 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
And his linemates were mostly KING and LEWIS during the playoffs, and was taken off the Power Play, thank you for helping to prove my point even though you weren't trying to
2 of Stoll's 5 pts were also on empty netters....

And coincidentally Lewis and King (who you seem to be putting down here) outscored Stoll during the playoffs.

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06-24-2012, 03:09 AM
  #93
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2 of Stoll's 5 pts were also on empty netters....

And coincidentally Lewis and King (who you seem to be putting down here) outscored Stoll during the playoffs.
Lewis and King were better than Stoll. And combined will be making half of what he will this coming season. Stoll just doesn't have the instincts to put up 15-20 goals in a limited role, he couldn't do it with 2nd line and #1 PP time, how on Earth will he do it in a limited role. And like you said, even when Sutter came on board he never found his offense, not in the season or in the playoffs.

And I have heard the term "elite 3rd line center" thrown around and I have to just chuckle a little bit.

When I think elite 3rd line center I think Kris Draper, Joel Otto etc. I don't know what Stoll has done in his career to warrant being called elite.

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06-24-2012, 05:51 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Kopitar
Carer
Richards
Fraser


Also, did Carter become Japanese over night?

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06-24-2012, 08:57 AM
  #95
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Dwight King is a top 6 forward lol. We all know Gagné isn't going to play the full 82 games. That's why I'm pushing for Parise, he solidifies that top 6 for a long time coming. Hell, who knows, maybe Tyler Toffoli beats everyone out in training camp haha (wishful thinking)

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06-24-2012, 09:05 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I don't think he is 6 goals bad, but I would be shocked if Stoll ever got back to the 15-20 range. I think the Kings would be very happy with 10-12 goals from him next season.
I think Stoll we still be in the 6-8 goal range next season, not sure if he can get to 10 goals without some injuries to the top 6 and Stoll getting additional ice time. I think King will be the goal scorer on that line and could get 15-20. Lewis will be a 6-10 goal scorer. That line will be around 30 goals next season.

I see the top 2 lines to be close in total goals for the season, around 70 goals each. The 3rd line should be around 30 goals and the 4th line around 10 goals. If the defense chips in with the same 44 goals as last season, the Kings would be around 12th in total goals.

This would also be below their playoff scoring pace. If they score at their playoff rate, they would have been 8th in scoring.

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06-24-2012, 10:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post

Also, did Carter become Japanese over night?
Nice work!

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Old
06-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #98
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Happy 30th birthday Stoll. However, i can' believe you could celebrate anything else at this point.

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06-24-2012, 08:23 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Easily would have been $4+ on the open market.
Nonsense!

No one in their right mind would have paid 4M+ for Stoll.

I guess I'm in the minority here because he doesn't deserve a penny more than 2M imo.

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06-24-2012, 08:29 PM
  #100
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