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Kings re-sign Jarret Stoll for 3 years, 9.75 million (3.25m cap hit)

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Old
06-24-2012, 09:20 PM
  #126
Sydor25
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Herby, you forget that Stoll is a culture changer. That's gotta be worth at least an extra million.


We will see what Gaustaud gets as a UFA. Then we will see where the market is.

I don't see GMs being cautious with UFAs on July 1st because the CBA expires in September. They will assume that the salaries will fall by the same percentage of the cap, if it is lowered.

Negotiations are supposed the begin next week, we will see where the lines are drawn, unless they can remain quite for a little while.

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06-24-2012, 09:21 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
It's so easy for people to look at the offensive stats and claim they are not worth the money.

People have to realize that not every play can put up a point per game while playing on a defense first team. Most of the season was played under TM"s system that did not allow for any offense. I'm willing to bet guys like Stoll and Penner (if he resigns) will be back up close to the 20g mark with the new forechecking system in place.

Stoll at 3.25m is a steal considering the weak market this year. I'm thinking penner gets close to the same amount next week as well.

Lastly, even if they do suck in the regular season, if they play balls out like they did in the playoffs this year then im all for paying them MORE. Post season is where the paychecks are earned, just ask stamkos how all his goals worked out for him on their cup run.
Hey, I don't disagree that Pens and Stoll could have bounce back seasons. All I'm saying is that Stoll shouldn't have been paid that much. And DEFINITELY not 4M+ that Sydor was suggesting.

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06-24-2012, 09:22 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Is that before or after the Kings sign Quick for 4.5 million?
Quick doesn't deserve anything over $4 per, he's only had one good playoff run and he was just extremely lucky.

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06-24-2012, 09:23 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
He actually could be right about slightly above average 3rd liners commanding 4 mill a year.

We can look at what Stoll got, what Leino got, and what Garrison is going to get and we shouldn't be surprised when the only thread we are commenting on at this board is "The all lockout talk goes here" thread.

The cap is not sustainable for a large chunk of teams.
It's going to happen and it's going to be long. I'm glad we don't have to stew on a playoff miss or first round loss for as long as we've had to before, that was my worst fear.

GM's are going to go gung-ho in free agency like nothing's wrong and owners will cry foul on their behalf. Just like always.

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06-24-2012, 09:29 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Hey, I don't disagree that Pens and Stoll could have bounce back seasons. All I'm saying is that Stoll shouldn't have been paid that much. And DEFINITELY not 4M+ that Sydor was suggesting.
What did you think of Handzus getting $4 per coming off of major knee surgery? The cap was almost $20 less when he signed too. $4 now isn't as much as $4 was five years ago.

Someone would have overpaid. Just like LA overpaid for Handzus.

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06-24-2012, 09:33 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
It's going to happen and it's going to be long. I'm glad we don't have to stew on a playoff miss or first round loss for as long as we've had to before, that was my worst fear.

GM's are going to go gung-ho in free agency like nothing's wrong and owners will cry foul on their behalf. Just like always.
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think either side wants to completely change the system. Just some tweaks to revenue sharing and how the cap is calculated.

Another lockout would be devastating to the sport. The diehards will come back, but the few casuals that are out there will move on.

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06-24-2012, 09:36 PM
  #132
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@LITN,

Yup, and look no further than the player in this thread to see the problem.

Jarret Stoll signed his last contract to be a 2nd line player. The Kings hoped he would return to his numbers from 06 (68 pts) or 07 (40 pts in 50 games) and he was paid that way.

Fast forward to this week, Stoll coming off a 6 goal, 21 point season in which he was a poor 3rd line player is signed to an extension for almost exactly what he was paid in 08 when the expectation was for him to be a 2nd liner, and some are even saying he left money on the table. So in four short years the going rate for a slightly above average 3rd line player (not even I think Stoll will be this bad again) has surpassed the rate the Kings paid for a 60+ point center in 2008.

I feel like this is the housing bubble again, when I tried to convince all my friends that buying a house was not a good idea. Most of them didn't get it, and I guess GM's don't either.

If Jarret Stoll is worth 4 million what is Crosby worth? Kopitar? Parise?

If Jason Garrison gets $5 million, Doughty looks like highway robbery at 6.8. What will Suter get, if Garrison is worth 5, Suter is worth 8+.

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06-24-2012, 09:39 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think either side wants to completely change the system. Just some tweaks to revenue sharing and how the cap is calculated.

Another lockout would be devastating to the sport. The diehards will come back, but the few casuals that are out there will move on.
I'd like to think this as well, as it seems logical. However, the pessimistic side of me makes me think Herby and LITN are probably right.

EDIT: Apologize for getting off topic a little.

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06-24-2012, 09:40 PM
  #134
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I don't want to turn this into a lockout thread, but the inflation that makes a contract like this very fair or makes teams pay 4 million for third liners is startling. And it this deal is fair in the current climate, not saying otherwise. It's cool for players to get paid more, I'm all for it. But it isn't sustainable and doesn't mesh with the financial situation of most NHL teams. These teams at the cap floor are over extended as it is with regards to what they can pay, but because of it they have to attract players who don't even want to be there with more cash that they don't even really have.

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06-24-2012, 09:58 PM
  #135
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I believe Stolll would of got 4 plus on the open market. It's a week year and he is a decent 2nd line stop gap center who can play on the point on the PP great on th face off pk. He is a decent 2nd liner who can play in all situation and do good enough.

I am stoked to have him back with Sutter as our coach and playing him the way he needs to be played. He will be better and get 10/20 goals and 35/45 points

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06-24-2012, 10:01 PM
  #136
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Now that Stoll is signed Gaustad might make a killing. Guastad and Stoll were similar players for teams needing centers in free agency. And one is left

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06-24-2012, 10:08 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Is that before or after the Kings sign Quick for 4.5 million?
After

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06-25-2012, 03:33 PM
  #138
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haha did u guys spot this on http://www.thefourthperiod.com/ ?
Attached Images
File Type: png Capture.PNG‎ (26.4 KB, 12 views)

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06-25-2012, 03:35 PM
  #139
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haha did u guys spot this on http://www.thefourthperiod.com/ ?
Herby must be one of their editors.

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06-25-2012, 03:48 PM
  #140
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I think we were hoping for a discount with Stoll, but no way he would have come @ less than 3 mil.

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06-25-2012, 04:10 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
I think we were hoping for a discount with Stoll, but no way he would have come @ less than 3 mil.
Well he was making $3.6 Mil last contract, so @ $3.25 Mil that IS a discount no ? plus this will put him at what 33 / 34 ? at the end of this contract, more than likely his last chance at a cashing in, in terms of amount and term, so it shows he's commited to this Team and trying to win another cup within the next couple years again. I don't see how anyone can upset about that ?

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06-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #142
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I have a hard time believing there will be a long lockout or one at all. How can the owners OR players claim wrong doing when both parties agreed to the last deal. Find out what is working and what isn't and make a resolution quick because any work stoppage is going to be catastrophic for the league. The few millions they argue about and hold out for could turn into 100's of millions in a blink of an eye if they go down that road again. It will be both the players and the owners losing money when the fans don't come back.

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06-25-2012, 04:42 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I have a hard time believing there will be a long lockout or one at all. How can the owners OR players claim wrong doing when both parties agreed to the last deal. Find out what is working and what isn't and make a resolution quick because any work stoppage is going to be catastrophic for the league. The few millions they argue about and hold out for could turn into 100's of millions in a blink of an eye if they go down that road again. It will be both the players and the owners losing money when the fans don't come back.
egos get in the way of negotiations. would you rather be looked at as the "loser" or the guy who stood up for "what he believed in". a lockout wouldn't surprise me.

I wish they just got rid of guaranteed contracts. Players want to keep the status quo? Then keep everything as it is, but take out guaranteed contracts. That's where all the issues seem to come from

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06-25-2012, 05:09 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I have a hard time believing there will be a long lockout or one at all. How can the owners OR players claim wrong doing when both parties agreed to the last deal. Find out what is working and what isn't and make a resolution quick because any work stoppage is going to be catastrophic for the league. The few millions they argue about and hold out for could turn into 100's of millions in a blink of an eye if they go down that road again. It will be both the players and the owners losing money when the fans don't come back.
The system clearly isn't working for the owners and with the CBA expiring they have every right to fix it since they are losing money as a whole.

Like I mentioned in my other post, this contract is a perfect example as to why the leagues salary structure and inflation is flawed and unsustainable. Stoll was paid roughly the same four years ago to be a 60 point second line center as he was this week to be a 25-30 point (fair projection, IMO) 3rd line center. What if Stoll had come even close to living up to his previous contract. How much would he be getting if he were a 65 point center?

The owners got absolutely fleeced in the last CBA, the cap floor is 20% higher than the cap ceiling was in 2006. Some players like Jarret Stoll, Jason Garrison, Ville Leino, Dan Hamhuis and Christian Ehrhoff will benefit greatly from this and signed/will sign extremely bloated contracts for what they bring to the table. Jonathan Quick is also very fortunate that he can start negotiating on July 1st before the new CBA again drastically changes the salary structure. It sucks for a guy like Dustin Brown who was grossly underpaid in his last contract and will not be able to negotiate until July 1st, 2013.

Since Stoll came to the Kings in 2008 he will be paid 17.66 million through this year, for largely mediocre hockey. Dustin Brown on the other hand, who has been one of the Kings best players will have earned only 15.5 million over the same time span.

The problem is, there are way to many contracts around the league like Stoll's and not enough like Brown's to counter the losses and lack of value teams are getting from contracts.

The only thing keeping owners in the game is that franchise values continue to rise, the problem is, it's not easy to just turn around and sell a franchise valued in the nine figures, the buyers market is extremely limited and in some places non-existent. Plus the league itself rightfully wants committed owners and not people who are going to buy the team with the intention to flip them a couple of years later.

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06-25-2012, 05:22 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The system clearly isn't working for the owners and with the CBA expiring they have every right to fix it since they are losing money as a whole.

Like I mentioned in my other post, this contract is a perfect example as to why the leagues salary structure and inflation is flawed and unsustainable. Stoll was paid roughly the same four years ago to be a 60 point second line center as he was this week to be a 25-30 point (fair projection, IMO) 3rd line center. What if Stoll had come even close to living up to his previous contract. How much would he be getting if he were a 65 point center?

The owners got absolutely fleeced in the last CBA, the cap floor is 20% higher than the cap ceiling was in 2006. Some players like Jarret Stoll, Jason Garrison, Ville Leino, Dan Hamhuis and Christian Ehrhoff will benefit greatly from this and signed/will sign extremely bloated contracts for what they bring to the table. Jonathan Quick is also very fortunate that he can start negotiating on July 1st before the new CBA again drastically changes the salary structure. It sucks for a guy like Dustin Brown who was grossly underpaid in his last contract and will not be able to negotiate until July 1st, 2013.

Since Stoll came to the Kings in 2008 he will be paid 17.66 million through this year, for largely mediocre hockey. Dustin Brown on the other hand, who has been one of the Kings best players will have earned only 15.5 million over the same time span.

The problem is, there are way to many contracts around the league like Stoll's and not enough like Brown's to counter the losses and lack of value teams are getting from contracts.

The only thing keeping owners in the game is that franchise values continue to rise, the problem is, it's not easy to just turn around and sell a franchise valued in the nine figures, the buyers market is extremely limited and in some places non-existent. Plus the league itself rightfully wants committed owners and not people who are going to buy the team with the intention to flip them a couple of years later.
I'm not smart enough to know where the problems lie. However, if the system is flawed, why did the owners agree to it in the first place and the renew it a few years later? I mean they should take some responsibility and from what I understand, the NHL players get a higher percentage of the revenue than other prosports. If that is the case and owners are losing money, I would imagine that is something that should be negotiable. I don't even know exactly what that means or how big of an issue it is. But at the end of the day, I really don't care about the semantics. If the owners and players want to fight in the sand box again, they'll be coming back to an empty school when the fight is over.

The one thing that does make me a bit nervous is the fact that the NHL union has the guy who I guess was pretty instrumental in the baseball lockout from the 90's. That doesn't bode well.

EDIT: In regards to Brown, you are choosing an anomaly. If Brown signed a 2 or 3 year deal when he was younger, he'd be making more now when he eventually re-signed. He went for the long term security and ended up becoming more valuable down the line. I get what you are saying about inflation of the salaries but I don't think choosing Brown is a good comparison.


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06-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
egos get in the way of negotiations. would you rather be looked at as the "loser" or the guy who stood up for "what he believed in". a lockout wouldn't surprise me.

I wish they just got rid of guaranteed contracts. Players want to keep the status quo? Then keep everything as it is, but take out guaranteed contracts. That's where all the issues seem to come from
I guess I should just stay out of the lockout discussion because it really is over my head. I'm sure if I was bored enough I could look into it but it really doesn't matter to me because I have no control over it and I really can not relate to either side.

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06-25-2012, 05:27 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The system clearly isn't working for the owners and with the CBA expiring they have every right to fix it since they are losing money as a whole.

Like I mentioned in my other post, this contract is a perfect example as to why the leagues salary structure and inflation is flawed and unsustainable. Stoll was paid roughly the same four years ago to be a 60 point second line center as he was this week to be a 25-30 point (fair projection, IMO) 3rd line center. What if Stoll had come even close to living up to his previous contract. How much would he be getting if he were a 65 point center?

The owners got absolutely fleeced in the last CBA, the cap floor is 20% higher than the cap ceiling was in 2006. Some players like Jarret Stoll, Jason Garrison, Ville Leino, Dan Hamhuis and Christian Ehrhoff will benefit greatly from this and signed/will sign extremely bloated contracts for what they bring to the table. Jonathan Quick is also very fortunate that he can start negotiating on July 1st before the new CBA again drastically changes the salary structure. It sucks for a guy like Dustin Brown who was grossly underpaid in his last contract and will not be able to negotiate until July 1st, 2013.

Since Stoll came to the Kings in 2008 he will be paid 17.66 million through this year, for largely mediocre hockey. Dustin Brown on the other hand, who has been one of the Kings best players will have earned only 15.5 million over the same time span.

The problem is, there are way to many contracts around the league like Stoll's and not enough like Brown's to counter the losses and lack of value teams are getting from contracts.

The only thing keeping owners in the game is that franchise values continue to rise, the problem is, it's not easy to just turn around and sell a franchise valued in the nine figures, the buyers market is extremely limited and in some places non-existent. Plus the league itself rightfully wants committed owners and not people who are going to buy the team with the intention to flip them a couple of years later.
Yes, those poor, poor owners....

Quote:
The NHL is on pace for its seventh consecutive year of record total revenue. The League is projected to bring in more than $3.2 billion by the end of the 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs. NHL Enterprisesí (League/national business minus broadcasting) revenue is forecasted to increase by 18 percent. This represents a growth of 195 percent over the 2003-04 season.
http://sportsmedianews.com/nhl-posts...cutive-season/
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=559630

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06-25-2012, 05:29 PM
  #148
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Since we are getting into the CBA and its potential impact on Stoll's deal, I fully expect that the owners will insist on something closer to a 50/50 split on the revenue instead of the current 57/43 split that favors the players. When that happens the cap should drop and some type of formula will be required for calling for a percentage reduction in existing contracts.

That will make Stoll's deal seem more affordable.

Bottom line the owner's shouldn't leave the table without getting something close to the 50/50 revenue split. The players should be insisting on more revenue sharing and a cap floor that is reasonable for them.

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06-25-2012, 05:43 PM
  #149
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If they insist on a 50/50 split with Fehr on the players side of the table there won't be hockey for a year. At least.

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06-25-2012, 05:50 PM
  #150
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The owners got absolutely fleeced in the last CBA,
Curious, since the owners got just about everything they wanted in the last negotiations.

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